GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[ThinkHard]

thinkhard, do we know that she was found with the mall outfit?

Nope I don't think we know for sure what she was found in.

I believe some LE stated she was found in the same clothes she was seen in survelliance in. But I'm not sure it was ever clarified what day survelliance they meant.

I also never understood how they knew exactly what she was wearing based on survelliance, if a coat would have been covering what she was wearing.

I believe all we know ( have been told) about what she was wearing when she was found, was that she was wearing only a shirt and underpants. And that her jeans were found nearby. But the shirt and pants I don't think have been described.

I wonder if the jeans found were flare pants. Because it does appear in the footage from the 21st the woman is definitely wearing flare pants.

Also, now this is just really hypothetical and probably a stretch, but if someone was intentionally suppose to be playing a sarai look a like for camera footage on the 21st (because sarai had really was already deceased), then in theory whoever was responsible for her death, would ave access to her keys to her apartment and access to her electronics, so hypothetically in this scenario someone may have had access to some of Sarai's clothes.

Also I'm wondering if anyone else noticed this....but in the footage from the 21st, the coat she is wearing doesn't seem to be the leather jacket we normally have seen her in. Does anyone else notice this? Or do you guys think in the 21st video footage it is that same leather jacket on the woman?

 

[ThinkHard]

and didnt she text her sis the next morning? which would be inconsistent with her having died on the 20th. we have gone in so many directions im forgetting stuff now!

Yes but it was a text sent to her sister, she didn't actually speak to her sister. Meaning it wouldn't neccasarily need to be her that sent it, just someone who had her device and wanted to make it look like she was still alive at that point.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Nope I don't think we know for sure what she was found in.

I believe some LE stated she was found in the same clothes she was seen in survelliance in. But I'm not sure it was ever clarified what day survelliance they meant.

I also never understood how they knew exactly what she was wearing based on survelliance, if a coat would have been covering what she was wearing.

I believe all we know ( have been told) about what she was wearing when she was found, was that she was wearing only a shirt and underpants. And that her jeans were found nearby. But the shirt and pants I don't think have been described.

I wonder if the jeans found were flare pants. Because it does appear in the footage from the 21st the woman is definitely wearing flare pants.

Also, now this is just really hypothetical and probably a stretch, but if someone was intentionally suppose to be playing a sarai look a like for camera footage on the 21st (because sarai had really was already deceased), then in theory whoever was responsible for her death, would ave access to her keys to her apartment and access to her electronics, so hypothetically in this scenario someone may have had access to some of Sarai's clothes.

Also I'm wondering if anyone else noticed this....but in the footage from the 21st, the coat she is wearing doesn't seem to be the leather jacket we normally have seen her in. Does anyone else notice this? Or do you guys think in the 21st video footage it is that same leather jacket on the woman?

definitely noticed it. she is seen almost always in that jacket...new york pics too. its hard to believe that footage is her. someone inpersonating her sounds really professional and thought out.

 

[SANDOVAL]

Nope I don't think we know for sure what she was found in.

I believe some LE stated she was found in the same clothes she was seen in survelliance in. But I'm not sure it was ever clarified what day survelliance they meant.

I also never understood how they knew exactly what she was wearing based on survelliance, if a coat would have been covering what she was wearing.

I believe all we know ( have been told) about what she was wearing when she was found, was that she was wearing only a shirt and underpants. And that her jeans were found nearby. But the shirt and pants I don't think have been described.

I wonder if the jeans found were flare pants. Because it does appear in the footage from the 21st the woman is definitely wearing flare pants.

Also, now this is just really hypothetical and probably a stretch, but if someone was intentionally suppose to be playing a sarai look a like for camera footage on the 21st (because sarai had really was already deceased), then in theory whoever was responsible for her death, would ave access to her keys to her apartment and access to her electronics, so hypothetically in this scenario someone may have had access to some of Sarai's clothes.

Also I'm wondering if anyone else noticed this....but in the footage from the 21st, the coat she is wearing doesn't seem to be the leather jacket we normally have seen her in. Does anyone else notice this? Or do you guys think in the 21st video footage it is that same leather jacket on the woman?

Can't tell really.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=428&VideoID=486

 

[kmassoud]

If LE is stating that this was the last footage of SS, and that she died shortly thereafter, I have to assume that the clothes she was wearing when murdered would be the same as in the video. I would think LE would have to be pretty sure that the person on video was SS given that her clothes would match those found at the crime scene. If the clothes were different, I would think LE would present the video differently (as in, she was murdered a different day, or went home to change (which would be on other video). I can't imagine many scenarios where the LE would think this is SS if it were not the same clothes she was found in.

 

[ThinkHard]

I meant as far as we know taylan has been cleared, correct? but his actions and comments are wishy washy. he was the last person seen with her...its hard for me to get him off the table just yet.

and I wasnt discounting your post - the contrary - it doesnt fit with reports from LE...assuming hes been let off the hook.

True I hear what your saying.

But just think for a second, if just IF Taylan is responsible for her death, but the death took place on the 20th....not the 21st.....

Then LE could dismiss him because he has a legit alibi for the 21st, the day they think she went missing.

However if she actually went missing the 20th, and they are not investigating Taylans alibi for that night.....because they believe she was still alive up until early afternoon on the 21st.....well that would be pretty strong protection for him if they aren't even looking at the right time and day for when she disappeared.

Again I just want to emphasize that this is just speculation on a possible scenario.

I'm just saying if one could convince LE that the date and time of the disapearance was vastly different from when it actually occurred.....well then having LE looking in the wrong direction......could really alter the truths they're bound to find. Right?

 

[ThinkHard]

definitely noticed it. she is seen almost always in that jacket...new york pics too. its hard to believe that footage is her. someone inpersonating her sounds really professional and thought out.

Or just someone being protected by family money and resources.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Yes but it was a text sent to her sister, she didn't actually speak to her sister. Meaning it wouldn't neccasarily need to be her that sent it, just someone who had her device and wanted to make it look like she was still alive at that point.

fair enough. im following you now. so those second surveillance videos could very well not be her...I mean how many of us scrunched our faces and scratched our heads after that second video? does not look like her...

 

[SANDOVAL]

Good point I agree, but all you can really see are some sort of blue pants, and her jacket was missing they say, can't see the shirt from here.

(in response to ''If LE is stating that this was the last footage of SS, and that she died shortly thereafter, I have to assume that the clothes she was wearing when murdered would be the same as in the video. I would think LE would have to be pretty sure that the person on video was SS given that her clothes would match those found at the crime scene. If the clothes were different, I would think LE would present the video differently (as in, she was murdered a different day, or went home to change (which would be on other video). I can't imagine many scenarios where the LE would think this is SS if it were not the same clothes she was found in. '')

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

True I hear what your saying.

But just think for a second, if just IF Taylan is responsible for her death, but the death took place on the 20th....not the 21st.....

Then LE could dismiss him because he has a legit alibi for the 21st, the day they think she went missing.

However if she actually went missing the 20th, and they are not investigating Taylans alibi for that night.....because they believe she was still alive up until early afternoon on the 21st.....well that would be pretty strong protection for him if they aren't even looking at the right time and day for when she disappeared.

Again I just want to emphasize that this is just speculation on a possible scenario.

I'm just saying if one could convince LE that the date and time of the disapearance was vastly different from when it actually occurred.....well then having LE looking in the wrong direction......could really alter the truths they're bound to find. Right?

abso-freaking-lutely. I couldn't sleep last night thinking taylan seems suspicious to me still - flip flopping on shagging in the bathroom or at all after cleared from dna. I kept thinking maybe he paid the homeless guy to kill her and dump her. wonder if he bailed on IG because he has photos of those walls.

 

[ThinkHard]

If LE is stating that this was the last footage of SS, and that she died shortly thereafter, I have to assume that the clothes she was wearing when murdered would be the same as in the video. I would think LE would have to be pretty sure that the person on video was SS given that her clothes would match those found at the crime scene. If the clothes were different, I would think LE would present the video differently (as in, she was murdered a different day, or went home to change (which would be on other video). I can't imagine many scenarios where the LE would think this is SS if it were not the same clothes she was found in.

But remember we have only been privy to about 5% of what LE knows.

Also if, just saying IF, this woman in the footage was not sarai, but intentionally a decoy...wouldn't the person putting her out there as a decoy, know what sarai would be found wearing and therefore want to make sure the decoy was wearing something at least similar.

Also if she was wearing a jacket, how on survelliance could they tell exactly what she was wearing under her jacket?

And furthermore if on video they saw jeans boots, shirt, and that is roughly what she was found at the scene in....it's still closer then if she was found in a dress, and last seen on video in jeans. That's would be an obvious discrepancy.

But maybe the outfits were cLose enough that someone stated that. Or maybe the statement is just false to begin with. We don't really know.

But to me the jacket in the video on the 21st...does seem like it is a bit different then the jacket we had seen her wearing in other images.

And correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt her jacket not found at the scene?

 

[SophieRose]

I couldn't open the link but had a quick look at some reviews on tripadvisor. They were all talking about the parts of the walls further round the road. Admittedly it was only a quick look but I didn't see anyone mention that part of the road other than to pass by o their way from their explorations to the Sirkeci area.

Here's a tourist couple that went past those particular walls and then climbed up to the rail tracks and followed them back to the train station.

Pictures towards the end. Some nice pictures on this site of Turkey and surrounding countries.
http://heinduke.blogspot.com/2013/01/istanbul.html

 

[ThinkHard]

fair enough. im following you now. so those second surveillance videos could very well not be her...I mean how many of us scrunched our faces and scratched our heads after that second video? does not look like her...

Hey I totally get that this scenario is a stretch, but so much about this case has just not added up....and when you start to think about this scenario as a possibility, it does make you wonder if it could be the explanation to what this case has made us all scratch our heads on more then one occasion.

 

[ThinkHard]

Here's a tourist couple that went past those particular walls and then climbed up to the rail tracks and followed them back to the train station.

Pictures towards the end. Some nice pictures on this site of Turkey and surrounding countries.
http://heinduke.blogspot.com/2013/01/istanbul.html

Right but if you notice what it says under that picture it states it was one of the more sketchier things they have ever done, and ALSO note they didn't do it alone.

To my point it is obviously sketchy....and I don't think anyone would venture up there alone. I just give Sarai more credit then that.

 

[zarra30]

Although Taylan has never been a suspect for me, early on I considered that maybe they had spent the night together. I read that he took LE to the bar etc and that he had walked her home. LE have consistently said that he is not a suspect and I believe they probably have camera evidence of him leaving the area.

This is a question for Herat or Thinkhard.
Have you guys been to Istanbul?
Are there cameras in every bar/restautant and on the street corners and are they obvious, ie known to the regular citizens/tourists?

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Hey I totally get that this scenario is a stretch, but so much about this case has just not added up....and when you start to think about this scenario as a possibility, it does make you wonder if it could be the explanation to what this case has made us all scratch our heads on more then one occasion.

a stretch maybe but if you step back and think it makes sense for the facts we have been given. hopefully they find the trashman and shake him down.

 

[StCirq]

That video was posted a few days before Sarai was found. I remember watching it on youtube in suspense praying that it was not Sarai. When the guy showed the other guy Sarais picture on the phone, I'm sure he was asking him if he thinks that the woman fished out of the water was Sarai

Haven't had time to read any of this yet today, but yes, I'm aware that the woman was pulled out of the water before they found SS, but
the police already had pics of SS. Presumably they were trying to make a match between SS and the woman in the water.

 

[SophieRose]

Yes of course they did, no ones arguing that. I had just said in response to the question who was she with the night of the 21st......was that SUPPOSEDLY that was the alleged night of the bathroom sex with Taylan....more as a point of reference....no one knows if that is fact....however a couple articles did cite LE as admitting yes indeed Taylan did tell them the bathroom sex story....if he lied about it that's another story, but according to LE he at least claimed to.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sex-man-met-internet-went-missing-Turkey.html

Here is just one of many articles making this claim.

They quote LE without a name. Heck in other TC cases I've follwed, LE could be some cop who works there and is getting rumors, not an investigator working directly on the case.

 

[ThinkHard]

This is a question for Herat or Thinkhard.
Have you guys been to Istanbul?
Are there cameras in every bar/restautant and on the street corners and are they obvious, ie known to the regular citizens/tourists?

I'm American, but lived in Istanbul for over a year, about 4 years ago in my mid 20's, and have been back 4 times since, including living there as recently as this past summer from June-August.

The cameras are not in every bar or street corner, though most establishments do have their own private ones, I certainly wouldn't say all private establishments do. There is a difference too btw cameras owned by an establishment, and cameras funded by the city.

The main cameras in Istanbul are in the high traffic tourist areas and are a very sophisticated attempt for law enforcement to cut down on and monitor crime. There was a lot written about them in newspapers when they went through the effort of installing the city cameras because as I mentioned its a pretty sophisticated system. So most locals would know and be aware of the areas the cameras are numerous. They are not hidden by any means, so if you are looking for them you can spot them. But if you aren't looking for them you might not notice them.

However as numerous as they are in high traffic areas, it should be noted that Istanbul is a very large, and VERY spread out city. So these cameras are not city wide. Though they would be numerous in the areas Sarai most likely frequented.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

But remember we have only been privy to about 5% of what LE knows.

Also if, just saying IF, this woman in the footage was not sarai, but intentionally a decoy...wouldn't the person putting her out there as a decoy, know what sarai would be found wearing and therefore want to make sure the decoy was wearing something at least similar.

Also if she was wearing a jacket, how on survelliance could they tell exactly what she was wearing under her jacket?

And furthermore if on video they saw jeans boots, shirt, and that is roughly what she was found at the scene in....it's still closer then if she was found in a dress, and last seen on video in jeans. That's would be an obvious discrepancy.

But maybe the outfits were cLose enough that someone stated that. Or maybe the statement is just false to begin with. We don't really know.

But to me the jacket in the video on the 21st...does seem like it is a bit different then the jacket we had seen her wearing in other images.

And correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt her jacket not found at the scene?

It was mentioned by the LE that the jacket and the bag were missing and they were looking after both there. The jeans were torn out. Thats why maybe the jeans on the 21st video seem bootcut different than SS's skinny ones. :waitasec:

I'm too much confused :banghead: