GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[english]

Here's a tourist couple that went past those particular walls and then climbed up to the rail tracks and followed them back to the train station.

Pictures towards the end. Some nice pictures on this site of Turkey and surrounding countries.
http://heinduke.blogspot.com/2013/01/istanbul.html

If this was blogged throughout the travel as it looks to have been by the dates, then SS's body was lying undiscovered in the cave when this couple were climbing around the area.

 

[wpoe]

Here's a tourist couple that went past those particular walls and then climbed up to the rail tracks and followed them back to the train station.

Pictures towards the end. Some nice pictures on this site of Turkey and surrounding countries.
http://heinduke.blogspot.com/2013/01/istanbul.html

There is a video on YouTube that is pretty good footage of a camera crew sneaking around behind the walls to try to get shots of the place SS's body was found. They even rode a train past the spot to catch it:

Sarai Sierra Katilin İzi Kanlı Taşta - YouTube

The picture of the tracks at the body is real close to where she was found IMO.

 

[bourne]

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't understand the theory that the Jan. 21 surveillance footage is not SS.

**LE found her body by following her walk on the CCTV footage.
They located surveillance footage of SS on Jan. 21 and traced her route across town. When nothing else was working out, they sent hundreds of cops to her last known location and fanned out along her expected route. Almost immediately, they found her body.

If they were following the wrong person, the chances of that happening are zero.

**Her family must have identified her on the video.
They had it all before they located her body. So her husband and brother must have seen it while they were in town and surely identified her.

**She dressed differently from the day before and wore her hair down.
She was a woman. She was a fashionable woman. No surprise.

**The body of the drowned woman.
Police were checking every body found to see if it was SS. That's normal procedure in a high-profile, high-pressure missing persons investigation. There's no reason to assume that every crime occurring in Instanbul Jan. 20-Feb. 4 had to do with SS.

Yep, looks like her to me. And what you say makes sense. LE would have asked SS's family to confirm (or disconfirm) whether the surveillance tapes were of her. I don't see any valid reason to doubt that it was her.

 

[ThinkHard]

It was mentioned by the LE that the jacket and the bag were missing and they were looking after both there. The jeans were torn out. Thats why maybe the jeans on the 21st video seem bootcut different than SS's skinny ones. :waitasec:

I'm too much confused :banghead:

I'm not sure i see exactly what your saying. What would the connection be between her jeans being torn and the ones on video being boot cut?

I'm sure you have a very good point, its just apparently going over my head.

 

[SophieRose]

A lot of people don't feel like the woman on the footage from the 21 st is sarai. Which prompted other theories and speculations.

I also wouldn't be too confident that SS 's family was privy to anything going on in the investigation, including any video footage of SS that wasnt released to the public. So I'm not sure we can say for sure that anyone in her family would have verified that was her on the video. Even after she was found it was reported there was still hours of video to search.

LE found her on Feb 2. Steven and her brother were there on that day. How do you think they found her? Don't you think they probably followed that video. And even if Steven wasn't there, don't you think they would send the videos to the FBI in the US, who then would show them to the family.

 

[zarra30]

I'm American, but lived in Istanbul over a year, about 4 years ago in my mid 20's, and have been back 4 times since, including living there as recently as this past summer from June-August.

The cameras are not in every bar or street corner, though most establishments do have their own private ones, I certainly wouldn't say all private establishments do. There is a difference too btw cameras owned by an establishment, and cameras funded by the city.

The main cameras in Istanbul are in the high traffic tourist areas and are a very sophisticated attempt for law enforcement to cut down on and monitor crime. There was a lot written about them in newspapers when they went through the effort of installing the city cameras because as I mentioned its a pretty sophisticated system. So most locals would know and be aware of the areas the cameras are numerous. They are not hidden by any means, so if you are looking for them you can spot them. But if you aren't looking for them you might not notice them.

However as numerous as they are in high traffic areas, it should be noted that Istanbul is a very large, and VERY spread out city. So these cameras are not city wide. Though they would be numerous in the areas Sarai most likely frequented.

I hope that answers your question.

Yes, thanks so much for answering.
I know a lot of bars and restaurants also have them in NYC. I was just wondering how advanced Istanbul was and assume others on the board, like me, never have had the opportunity to visit Istanbul. They sound like they are very tech savvy.
O/T From all I have read about it, especially the arts scene, it sounds like a great place.

 

[ThinkHard]

If this was blogged throughout the travel as it looks to have been by the dates, then SS's body was lying undiscovered in the cave when this couple were climbing around the area.

Ewwww good point. How creepy!

 

[bourne]

But how did his DNA get under her fingernails?

If the homeless Z's DNA is found under her fingernails -- apart from someone purposefully planting his DNA there -- then I'd say it's proof positive SS had a physical struggle with Z.

There may be accidental DNA transfer to SS's body but it won't be under multiple fingernails unless the DNA transfer was done on purpose.

 

[bourne]

Why would he need to use an alias to purchase a bus ticket with cash? This doesn't make sense, unless they take people's name and information to buy a bus ticket in Turkey?

One reason may be because he is paranoid and believe people are after him. This need not be delusional because the cops are in fact after him.

 

[ThinkHard]

There is a video on YouTube that is pretty good footage of a camera crew sneaking around behind the walls to try to get shots of the place SS's body was found. They even rode a train past the spot to catch it:

Sarai Sierra Katilin İzi Kanlı Taşta - YouTube

The picture of the tracks at the body is real close to where she was found IMO.

I'm confused by your last line. What do you mean when you say the picture of the tracks at the body?

The railroad tracks ran along up behind the walls, but I think she was found at the base of the walls.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yep, looks like her to me. And what you say makes sense. LE would have asked SS's family to confirm (or disconfirm) whether the surveillance tapes were of her. I don't see any valid reason to doubt that it was her.

Well the thing is, I'm not sure we can say for certain that LE would have asked SS family for verification on footage that was yet to be released. I don't know if the would have involved them in that. It's possible but I don't think it's a garantee that they asked them. Also when she was found they still had not completed going through all the video footage.

Additionally even Krysp who knew her in life, feels like the images from the 21st do nt look like Sarai.

And I just wanted to ad too that in an interview, Steven even admitted there were certain things he was reluctant to discuss because the police asked for his cooperation not to, in order to not scare off certain people.....maybe the validity of SS on the video footage on the 21st is one of those hush hush areas.

The truth is none of us really know at this point.

 

[ThinkHard]

LE found her on Feb 2. Steven and her brother were there on that day. How do you think they found her? Don't you think they probably followed that video. And even if Steven wasn't there, don't you think they would send the videos to the FBI in the US, who then would show them to the family.

LE claimed they followed her on video to that spot and that's how they found her. But we really do not know how much truth there is in that.

When she was found Steven was out wandering around Istanbul looking for clues on his own, when he received a phone call that his wife's body was found.

I would not think it to be typical that LE would involve the family in that level of the investigation. Possible yes, but a garantee no. Also there were FBI agents involved in Istsnbul, so they would have no reason to send it to FBI in the states.

 

[english]

This is a question for Herat or Thinkhard.
Have you guys been to Istanbul?
Are there cameras in every bar/restautant and on the street corners and are they obvious, ie known to the regular citizens/tourists?

I'm not Herat or ThinkHard but if you don't object to me replying here is a link stating that in 2010 there were 584 city cameras and then obviously the private security cameras.

I've been to Istanbul many times. I can't say I've spotted many cameras but I just don't look for them, I know in certain places they would definitely be there. I remember a local once telling me that I would be caught 500 times a day on cameras.

http://www.ibb.gov.tr/sites/ks/en-US/0-Exploring-The-City/IstanbulSafeCity/Pages/Draft.aspx

 

[bourne]

I think Newyork625 and Yashim are on the right track. The killer is Ziya. He's likely a paranoid schizophrenic & suffers from persecutors syndrome. Sarai probably stumbled onto his home in the walls while taking pics & he thought she was spy pursuing him and out to hurt him. So he struck out at her & snatched her iPad & phone. That's likely why her jewelry was left intact.

I used to work in a combined Psychiatric & Addictive Disorders dept. and he fits the clinical description of schizophrenia.

I heard someone was having a hard time understanding my point and I have copied my full quote above to reiterate.

What I have written here is my opinion of what I've read in this forum about Z and also from what his siblings say about him in newsstories. I had carefully worded my opinion. I used the word "likely" a paranoid schizophrenic. I did NOT say it was 100% certain nor did I diagnose him as one.

It should be readily apparent that neither I nor anyone else can diagnose anyone without physically interviewing them face-to-face.

I stand by unequivocally with everything I've said here. I have extensive clinical experience in this area.

We should know more when LE release more facts about Z. Hopefully Z had been seen by physicians and/or psychiatrists and they should have his medical records on his mental illness.

 

[SophieRose]

LE claimed they followed her on video to that spot and that's how they found her. But we really do not know how much truth there is in that.

When she was found Steven was out wondering around Istanbul looking for clues on his own, when he received a phone call that his wife's body was found.

I would not think it to be typical that LE would involve the family in that level of the investigation. Possible yes, but a garantee no. Also there were FBI agents involved in Istsnbul, so they would have no reason to send it to FBI in the states.

Yes I know there are FBI in Istanbul. I'm saying that if Steven was already back in the states, LE in Istanbul could send it to the FBI located in NY.

 

[ThinkHard]

If the homeless Z's DNA is found under her fingernails -- apart from someone purposefully planting his DNA there -- then I'd say it's proof positive SS had a physical struggle with Z.

There may be accidental DNA transfer to SS's body but it won't be under multiple fingernails unless the DNA transfer was done on purpose.

Or....if it was Z's blanket that was used to keep her quiet, and she was grasping at this blanket to pull it away from her face, thus while grasping at the blanket (covered in Z's DNA ) and getting DNA from the blanket under her fingernails.

 

[Yellow]

I think a theory based on someone disguising themselves as Sarai,& there being a murder, etc,would only have taken place if there was organized crime or some criminal group involved like drugs..

If a lone perp, like an IGer or someone she met on Internet, it appears too sophisticated,plus, if you murder someone, especially in heat of passion, you want the least number of people knowing about it. You are not going to ask someone to dress up like SS

So I believe to buy that theory, you have to discount the 2 most likely scenarios: random attack or IGer or acquaintance attack. Not likely, IMO.

If not SS, it would be very coincidental that a women that looks just like her is in that exact spot. That raises the question, where is SE then? If not her, why is not she on the bridge, as her message indicates?

I assume that same women is the one on all 20 images that day..

I think it looks like her, she looks alot different w her hair down. She looks petite in that frame which is also what she is as she is 5'2.

 

[SANDOVAL]

LE found her on Feb 2. Steven and her brother were there on that day. How do you think they found her? Don't you think they probably followed that video. And even if Steven wasn't there, don't you think they would send the videos to the FBI in the US, who then would show them to the family.

I had thought they searched there because of the white car story, and then looked at footage. Am i mistaken?

 

[SophieRose]

I had thought they searched there because of the white car story, and then looked at footage. Am i mistaken?

The white car was ruled out with a direct quote by Istanbul police chief Ertan Ercikti.

 

[ThinkHard]

I had thought they searched there because of the white car story, and then looked at footage. Am i mistaken?

Yes you are slightly mistaken. The women came forward with the white car story, only after the body was discovered.