GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[ThinkHard]

I would think a "powerful, wealthy, and connected" father would just get rid of the body. Destroyed or taken completely out of the area. Why go to all this trouble?

Nice twist to the Alfred Hitchcock (Vertigo) and Brian DePalma movies (Body Double).

Perhaps, but if you knew there was proof that your son was the last known person to be with Sarai, you might go through extra effort to mislead the investigation by throwing off the time, date, and location of death.

And even by staging a crime scene to frame a homeless man, knowing full well LE would not just let the death of an American tourist go easily.

Better perhaps to have a body and a possible perp, then no body at all. No body means no closer after all.

Ha it would make a good book, though I'm not familiar with either of the two you mentioned, ill have to check them out.

 

[ThinkHard]

Sorry, ThinkHard...it was a typo. I meant to say "bottom" as opposed to "body", refering to the picture post cited.

It is my understanding that she was found in the cave/cutout in the wall that has a one-meter hole in the front (obvious in pictures) but it open in the back. I cannot verify all of that. But I am pretty sure she was behind the wall not far from the RR tracks.

Thanks for clarifying that makes a lot more sense.

 

[Stormy415]

Absolutely, you're right, and it does bring CMac's "raise fists" back into the picture.

But he may have only been with her, if his DNA was not under her nails, so my point is that if he was with her, for any reason, bar, tea, etc, where did she go afterward?

Could she have gone somewhere else or started home and was followed?

Of course she still might be that woman on the video.
This is all speculation just in case she wasn't.
Her family would know best if it was her on the pics for the 21st, not LE, not us, as we seem quite confused.

MOO

I remember reading on one of the pages, probably way back when the LE questioned Taylan, that he said he walked her to her street because he knew it was not in a very good area.

 

[radiator]

Walking along Kennedy in that direction is easier to believe, it's the walking up into the walls at that specific very creepy location alone that I don't buy. You don't have to be familiar or unfamiliar with Istanbul to get a creepy feeling in that area. It's just not welcoming, and in my opinion I give sarai more credit then wandering into that area, into those walls alone.

It's not like that area is notoriously dangerous, and people tell you to avoid it, its that most people would have no reason to wander there period, and if you do find yourself there, instinct would tell you its creepy and you don't venture into the depths of those walls alone.

I certainly don't give Sarai "less credit" if she chose to walk up there. I'm just saying that if I had any interest in taking pictures of abandoned places, or wanted to get up higher so I could take a picture of the sea without the highway in the way, I would have climbed up there. Knowing that I would have done it allows me to believe that she might have.

 

[zarra30]

Walking along Kennedy in that direction is easier to believe, it's the walking up into the walls at that specific very creepy location alone that I don't buy. You don't have to be familiar or unfamiliar with Istanbul to get a creepy feeling in that area. It's just not welcoming, and in my opinion I give sarai more credit then wandering into that area, into those walls alone.

It's not like that area is notoriously dangerous, and people tell you to avoid it, its that most people would have no reason to wander there period, and if you do find yourself there, instinct would tell you its creepy and you don't venture into the depths of those walls alone.

I also give her more credit. I never bought the story of her going to the cave or off with 5 guys. I'm a New York female and we tend to be cautious, observant so we don't get mugged. I'm betting Krysp would agree.

 

[ThinkHard]

I see where you're going. Yes, it's within the realm of possibility, so should be considered. Though the crime could have been committed by anyone, rich or not.

Could the killer or helper have been the 'tipster' whosuggested that area where they started looking and that they found that image of 'Sarai" on the video?

Do you think that the woman they found on the video could just be some similar lady on her way home who is still sitting somewhere today somewhere?

Not doubting or questioning your theory, just wondering your thoughts.

I'm not sure. I'm just thinking if there is even a chance that the woman on the video from the 21st is in fact not Sarai....it opens up a whole lot of questions....

Like where was sarai on the 21st? If they have thought this was her and were following ths woman the whole time and it wasnt actually sarai....then everything we thought about what she spent that morning doing is wrong.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

I also give her more credit. I never bought the story of her going to the cave or off with 5 guys. I'm a New York female and we tend to be cautious, observant so we don't get mugged. I'm betting Krysp would agree.

I agree too, but why was she walking around there? And noone else agrees that she looks like shes carrying a big box in that "last seen" footage?

 

[michellemarls]

Just thinking about the earlier discussion about it being unclear whether or not it was indeed Sarai on the surveillance camera on the 21st. I found an article that shows a picture of Sarai with her hair down and wearing sunglasses. If you look at the forehead ect it does look Sarai standing on the white tiles with sunglasses on.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...fter-discovery-new-york-woman-body-in-turkey/

 

[ThinkHard]

I certainly don't give Sarai "less credit" if she chose to walk up there. I'm just saying that if I had any interest in taking pictures of abandoned places, or wanted to get up higher so I could take a picture of the sea without the highway in the way, I would have climbed up there. Knowing that I would have done it allows me to believe that she might have.

That's fair everyone's entitled to their opinion.

I just don't buy it, not in that spot, not with so much evidence of homeless inhabitants. Not alone.

 

[SANDOVAL]

I agree too, but why was she walking around there? And noone else agrees that she looks like shes carrying a big box in that "last seen" footage?

Sure the person is carrying, or lugging some large object, one person wondered if it was a rug.....and i think she is using both hands to kind of put the weight of the thing on her hip.

 

[Herat]

I finally saw the police video from the lady in the water and both photos are of SS, both taken in the US. Nothing I saw of that video was taken in Turkey or from any surveillance footage we have seen.

My mistake, sorry.

 

[ThinkHard]

Just thinking about the earlier discussion about it being unclear whether or not it was indeed Sarai on the surveillance camera on the 21st. I found an article that shows a picture of Sarai with her hair down and wearing sunglasses. If you look at the forehead ect it does look Sarai standing on the white tiles with sunglasses on.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...fter-discovery-new-york-woman-body-in-turkey/

Maybe. But there are still some details that I think are questionable.

I looked at a couple of pictures with her hair down, and I know this is kind of trivial but she usually has her hair parted more to the left. But in the video survelliance is parted to the right. Maybe trivial, but a lot of women have a natural part that is always about in the same place. It's just an observation that the part in survelliance is different then her part in all of the other pictures I've seen of her with her hair down.

Also in surveillance there is something about that jacket that looks different.

 

[english]

Just thinking about the earlier discussion about it being unclear whether or not it was indeed Sarai on the surveillance camera on the 21st. I found an article that shows a picture of Sarai with her hair down and wearing sunglasses. If you look at the forehead ect it does look Sarai standing on the white tiles with sunglasses on.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...fter-discovery-new-york-woman-body-in-turkey/

Also LE ar using face recognition software. I've no idea how accurate that is.

 

[ThinkHard]

Also LE ar using face recognition software. I've no idea how accurate that is.

Interesting, with the camera quality on survelliance footage, I wonder how close two people would have to look alike, to be mistaken for each other on face recognition software.

I know apple photos have some level of face recognition software built in to help you tag people. And that software gets stuff wrong. I'd hope the version LE is using is a little more advanced....but then I question the quality of images the survelliance can pick up, because even with the best face recognition software, with low quality images, I would still think mistakes could be made.

 

[michellemarls]

Maybe. But there are still some details that I think are questionable.

I looked at a couple of pictures with her hair down, and I know this is kind of trivial but she usually has her hair parted more to the left. But in the video survelliance is parted to the right. Maybe trivial, but a lot of women have a natural part that is always about in the same place. It's just an observation that the part in survelliance is different then her part in all of the other pictures I've seen of her with her hair down.

Also in surveillance there is something about that jacket that looks different.

Yes, you are right. My parting is always in the same place, and so is my daughters. In fact, unless you were trying out a completely new hairstyle that would be the way your hair naturally part. If you wanted something different with your hair you have to "train" your parting. It takes a while, and you can use grips at night ect to "train" your hair to lay in a different way...haha i'm prob boring you now!!

 

[ThinkHard]

Yes, you are right. My parting is always in the same place, and so is my daughters. In fact, unless you were trying out a completely new hairstyle that would be the way your hair naturally part. If you wanted something different with your hair you have to "train" your parting. It takes a while, and you can use grips at night ect to "train" your hair to lay in a different way...haha i'm prob boring you now!!

No it's a good point. It seems like a tiny detail...that actually might not be so tiny.

 

[SophieRose]

Why did they wait around ten days to kill this double found floating in the sea? And why was the double still wearing the red top and jeans? Wouldn't her killers ask her to wear something different? Hey, maybe double was going to get paid that day, just like the drug mule theorists think Sarai was going to the caves to get paid.

Sorry, I just don't buy this double theory. JMO.

 

[zarra30]

Yes, you are right. My parting is always in the same place, and so is my daughters. In fact, unless you were trying out a completely new hairstyle that would be the way your hair naturally part. If you wanted something different with your hair you have to "train" your parting. It takes a while, and you can use grips at night ect to "train" your hair to lay in a different way...haha i'm prob boring you now!!

No, it's true for the part in my hair also and when I changed it, it took awhile. Also sleuthers pointed out that in pics Sarai carried her purse on the other side and wore skinny jeans or leggings.
I could care less about fashion, but my friend brought up a point. How many mothers find a 'great' pair of jeans/tops/sunglasses on sale for their kids/relatives and then said daughters/sons/relatives refuse to wear them because of the width of the leg or some sort of stitching, even though to us, they looked exactly like the ones our kids/relatives always wear. LOL

 

[Fantazteko]

Hello!

Just a few more scattered thoughts. I find the current discussion fascinating.

I’ve gone over this same question in my head several times. Why would she go into that area alone when it’s clearly so spooky? But now they are saying she was dragged to that spot, and actually was killed a distance away.

The only explanations I can think of is that she was probably suffering from jetlag and overlooked the cues that would’ve alerted her to impending danger.

That and being in an unfamiliar environment. Perhaps her sense of adventure overrode her personal safety and she simply failed to be cautious.

A degree of anxiety comes along with traveling, either from air travel or fearing the unknown. Maybe with the 21st being her last day there, she felt as though her anxiety and worries were all nonsense since until then nothing had gone wrong in her trip. This might have made her more willing to chance a quick trek into those ancient city walls.

Besides, would being in a strange country not overwhelm one’s senses at first? She had been there only a few days, definitely not enough time to acquaint oneself with the ins and outs of an entire city.

Moreover, it was her first time anywhere outside the US. She was there for her own reasons, and was enjoying this new sense of freedom.

We see what we want to see. I was once told an anecdote about two men—one a hunter, and the other a missionary—who had just returned from a trip to Africa. One of them said he never saw a single church there but that he had seen hundreds of lions. the other said he had only seen churches there and never saw a single solitary lion.

All I’m trying to say is it’s very possible, for an unknown reason, she went to that area of her own free will, not seeing the danger, and stumbled upon her killer(s).

The confusion regarding the videos could be an innocent mistake. Such blunders reflect badly on law enforcement but after all they are only human. It can also be due to poor video quality.

In the end, the fact remains that law enforcement tracked the woman in this video and it led them to Sarai’s body.

With that said, I find it rather difficult to believe that the killer hired some woman to masquerade as Sarai, determine where and when to make herself visible on camera, used the surveillance system itself to direct law enforcement to the body.

It just seems like too much trouble when the killer could just as easily have discarded of her remains in a quicker and more efficient way.

This “cloak and dagger” stuff would just bring unwanted attention if you had just killed someone. First the killer would have to worry about the connections he’d make. The more people connected to the crime, the higher the chances are that you will get caught, because after all, the woman you hire, or whoever else, will someday talk. Honestly speaking, how many people can a killer and associates trust with this type of responsibility?

You will have to not only figure out a way to get rid of this body, or create some story to draw attention away from yourself, but you will also have to kill anybody else you get involved. In such cases, if you’re the killer, you will either not tell anybody, and take the secret to the grave, or do a whole lot of unnecessary killing.

Plus the question of time. She was last seen alive on the 20th by the man from whom she rented a room. The kind of decoy story being suggested here could not be carried out or planned on such short notice. Sarai’s last steps would have to be known, how she dressed, how she walked and so on, otherwise your attempts to fool police will be in vain. This is why I think lots of time would be required to pull off something of such great scale.

I tend to believe her murder was random, because to think otherwise only complicates things. A lot of evidence points to this, such as similar attacks in that same area.
I really think some people here have been sidetracked by small details.
Excuse me, don’t wish to ruffle any feathers.
Of course these are just speculations, I can still be wrong. I admit with the way things stand now, anything is possible...
Thanks!

 

[ThinkHard]

Why did they wait around ten days to kill this double found floating in the sea? And why was the double still wearing the red top and jeans? Wouldn't her killers ask her to wear something different? Hey, maybe double was going to get paid that day, just like the drug mule theorists think Sarai was going to the caves to get paid.

Sorry, I just don't buy this double theory. JMO.

Well for one, even if the woman on video on the 21st is not Sarai, it does not automatically mean she was the same woman found floating in the sea.

But IF she was she could have been held hostage before being killed, explaining the same clothes. And really would her killers say "hey can you wear something other then what you wore on the day we asked you to do that walk so when we kill you, you will be less recognizable?" That would make no sense.

IF the women on video was suppose to be a decoy for Sarai, she could have been illegally in Turkey, working in prostitution and under the command of someone else anyway. Meaning she didn't have to be paid to do anything, she was directed to take that walk that day. Maybe she was killed ten days later when she started asking too many questions about Sarai's disappearance and her walk.


Additionally, I never for one bought the drug mule theory.

You can shrug whatever off you like, no one is trying to convince anyone of anything. We are simply exploring possibilities within the realm of information that has come out thus far.

And though this theory is a bit of a big one, I wouldn't say its completely impossible either. And given what we do know, it fits in with some of the oddities of this case in general.