GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

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im totally lost. but if its her what is she carrying and why would she have to go sooo far out if her way to buy it? what is there in that area where she was walking to buy? and in that video is she walking in direction home? wasnt going to the walls to take pics. offered ride by livery car? where does the homeless guy play into this? I need a break I think...this is all confusing and excuse my stupid comments.
 
I had thought they searched there because of the white car story, and then looked at footage. Am i mistaken?

I think they also had a tipster and not sure if it was a phone or person (again, lack of sources and mistranslation) who said she was seen talking to 4 or 5 guys near the area where she was found, so that might have been a lead, but who knows. I can't remember.

I still don't think T or any of the regular guys would have been THAT invested enough in her to do such harm. Which is why I go back and forth to random or mistaken identity.
Just my opinion.

We never get accurate timing for his bar/tea meet.

And IF it even happened, she could have left him and went somewhere else or met some other people or.. thought she forgot something... or lost something and went back out the night of the 20th or ...went out the day of the 21st...
So many scenarios. But I really believe strongly that LE is sharp enough to have thought of all this and will be able to solve this case.

I'm just too perplexed at everything.
 
I heard someone was having a hard time understanding my point and I have copied my full quote above to reiterate.

What I have written here is my opinion of what I've read in this forum about Z and also from what his siblings say about him in newsstories. I had carefully worded my opinion. I used the word "likely" a paranoid schizophrenic. I did NOT say it was 100% certain nor did I diagnose him as one.

It should be readily apparent that neither I nor anyone else can diagnose anyone without physically interviewing them face-to-face.

I stand by unequivocally with everything I've said here. I have extensive clinical experience in this area.

We should know more when LE release more facts about Z. Hopefully Z had been seen by physicians and/or psychiatrists and they should have his medical records on his mental illness.

Here is the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia:
...............
Diagnostic criteria for Schizophrenia

A. Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) for the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):

delusions
hallucinations
disorganised speech (for example frequent derailment or incoherence)
grossly disorganised or catatonic behaviour
negative symptoms, that is,, affective flattening, alogia, or avolition
Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person’s behaviour or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.

B. Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).

C. Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (that is, active-phase symptoms) and may include prodromal or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (for example, odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).

D. Schizoaffective and Mood Disorder exclusion: Schizoaffective Disorder and Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features have been ruled out because either (1) no Major Depressive, Manic, or Mixed Episodes have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms; or (2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase symptoms, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active and residual periods.

E. Substance/general medical condition exclusion: The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (for example, a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.

F. Relationship to a Pervasive Developmental Disorder: If there is a history of Autistic Disorder or another Pervasive Developmental Disorder, the additional diagnosis of Schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations are present for at least a month (or less if successfully treated).[46]
................

You are making ALOT of assumption on which you are basing a theoretical diagnosis, on a man, based solely on what media has reported, and your own assumption that he is indeed guilty. You even stated "The killer is Ziya"

I personally think it is dangerous to label someone based on such generalized media and family statements, and on assuming guilt before it is proven.

In my opinion a huge basis of fitting him into this criteria would require him to be guilty of the crime, and assuming that his motivation for the crime was based in delusion paranoia that Sarai was out to do him harm. That in my opinion is a lot of speculation, and I personally don't feel like it is right to first assume guilt, and then to apply diagnostic criteria as his motive. Especially since we do not even know he is guilty, so maybe he doesn't even need a motive.

I think we just need to be really careful out of respect for an individual who is innocent until proven guilty.

I too have expertise in psychology, and In my humble opinion I believe such assessment of Z is premature.
 
I'm not sure i see exactly what your saying. What would the connection be between her jeans being torn and the ones on video being boot cut?

I'm sure you have a very good point, its just apparently going over my head.

As a scenario mentioned before lets assume that SS was killed on 20th and the woman in the 21 st video is not SS , but someone resembling her wearing her stolen jacket and bag , trying to prove SS was still alive on 21.. i guess whoever organized this didn't take and wear SS's jeans b/c they were torn out .. this other woman just wore her own jeans and acted as if SS What makes me say this is that , IMO SS's jeans seen on the airport and mall videos seem different models than the video on 21st ..Of course she may have a second jean with her also..:waitasec:
puzzled badly.. i guess i should go and get some fresh air
 
Hey Krys I think I must be missing your point. Can you explain what it is you are trying to say.

Are you emphasizing that it is less likely the video footage is her, because those aren't the same clothes?

I'm clearly just missing the point, and I want to make sure im clear on what you are pointing out.

well, I'm not insinuating anything. Im just saying that I don't think those 2 pics look like SS. I think they are mistaken. I believe I read somewhere that when she was found,she was wearing the same clothes she was wearing in the mall that day. And those clearly are not the same clothes. The hair of that woman in those pictures is also shorter than SS. I think they have her mistaken by some other woman. I could be wrong though.
 
So prior to Feb 2 ( I'm not getting the exact date of the discovery of the body in the water), the police have video of Jan 21 red shirt lady already?

That is an extremely interesting observation.

Whew. I think LE has released 0.5% of what they know, not 5%

Well, I'll go back and look at the video, but I'm pretty sure the policeman first brought up the classic SS photo with the hat and hair tucked in and scarf, etc., and the next one he scrolled to was the girl with the white t-shirt and red shirt and long hair flowing.

Or maybe I'm just losing my mind.
 
I think a theory based on someone disguising themselves as Sarai,& there being a murder, etc,would only have taken place if there was organized crime or some criminal group involved like drugs..

If a lone perp, like an IGer or someone she met on Internet, it appears too sophisticated,plus, if you murder someone, especially in heat of passion, you want the least number of people knowing about it. You are not going to ask someone to dress up like SS

So I believe to buy that theory, you have to discount the 2 most likely scenarios: random attack or IGer or acquaintance attack. Not likely, IMO.

If not SS, it would be very coincidental that a women that looks just like her is in that exact spot. That raises the question, where is SE then? If not her, why is not she on the bridge, as her message indicates?

I assume that same women is the one on all 20 images that day..

I think it looks like her, she looks alot different w her hair down. She looks petite in that frame which is also what she is as she is 5'2.

But what if a crime takes place and it wasnt your intention to kill someone but now you are freaking out, so you call your powerful, wealthy, and connected father, who says he will take care of it for you?....

Hey I admit its a stretch.....but it's possible.
 
A few people here who are familiar with the area by the walls where she ended up have stated that she wouldn't have gone to such an area alone. I looked at information online for travelers to the area, and there are sites recommending touring the walls. One such site (I hope this is the same area!) is:

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g293974-d2161587-Reviews-Walls_of_Constantinople_Istanbul_City_Walls-Istanbul.html#REVIEWS

She may have read such a review, and the comments below it, and assumed touring the walls during daylight was a safe thing to do.

I definitely think it's highly plausible she could have chosen to walk there without any sort of assignation because I walked there when I was visiting Istanbul last fall. Yes, it did feel creepy but it made sense when I was looking at a map (major route next to the water) and once I was there I felt committed to the route I'd chosen. I did not climb up into the wall area but I'm not a photographer. I'd imagine that after having spent a couple of weeks there (excluding side trips) she was feeling fairly comfortable.

Below is a link where you can "walk" along Kennedy Caddessi and get a little bit of a feel for the area...the kind of feel somebody like myself, or Sarai, who was not familiar with Istanbul would have.

http://tinyurl.com/bprw7vm

the link is to http://harita.yandex.com.tr but it was really long. It offers "street view" of Istanbul which google maps doesn't.
 
But what if a crime takes place and it wasnt your intention to kill someone but now you are freaking out, so you call your powerful, wealthy, and connected father, who says he will take care of it for you?....

Hey I admit its a stretch.....but it's possible.

I would think a "powerful, wealthy, and connected" father would just get rid of the body. Destroyed or taken completely out of the area. Why go to all this trouble?

Nice twist to the Alfred Hitchcock (Vertigo) and Brian DePalma movies (Body Double).
 
well, I'm not insinuating anything. Im just saying that I don't think those 2 pics look like SS. I think they are mistaken. I believe I read somewhere that when she was found,she was wearing the same clothes she was wearing in the mall that day. And those clearly are not the same clothes. The hair of that woman in those pictures is also shorter than SS. I think they have her mistaken by some other woman. I could be wrong though.

I wonder if her family believes the woman in the video on the 21st is sarai. Hmmm
 
I find it very strange that when she was missing (BOTL) LE released the mall photos to the public, where she is wearing the cap, scarf, leather jacket, slim jeans, wedge boots and green bag.

Yet, her last sighting was in the RED shirt.

Why didn't they release the red shirt images or both of them?
 
I'm confused by your last line. What do you mean when you say the picture of the tracks at the body?

The railroad tracks ran along up behind the walls, but I think she was found at the base of the walls.

Sorry, ThinkHard...it was a typo. I meant to say "bottom" as opposed to "body", refering to the picture post cited.

It is my understanding that she was found in the cave/cutout in the wall that has a one-meter hole in the front (obvious in pictures) but it open in the back. I cannot verify all of that. But I am pretty sure she was behind the wall not far from the RR tracks.
 
But what if a crime takes place and it wasnt your intention to kill someone but now you are freaking out, so you call your powerful, wealthy, and connected father, who says he will take care of it for you?....

Hey I admit its a stretch.....but it's possible.


I see where you're going. Yes, it's within the realm of possibility, so should be considered. Though the crime could have been committed by anyone, rich or not.

Could the killer or helper have been the 'tipster' whosuggested that area where they started looking and that they found that image of 'Sarai" on the video?

Do you think that the woman they found on the video could just be some similar lady on her way home who is still sitting somewhere today somewhere?

Not doubting or questioning your theory, just wondering your thoughts.
 
I would think a "powerful, wealthy, and connected" father would just get rid of the body. Destroyed or taken completely out of the area. Why go to all this trouble?

Nice twist to the Alfred Hitchcock (Vertigo) and Brian DePalma movies (Body Double).

Maybe because Steven said something along the lines of I will look under every rock and not leave Istanbul until I find my wife
 
I definitely think it's highly plausible she could have chosen to walk there without any sort of assignation because I walked there when I was visiting Istanbul last fall. Yes, it did feel creepy but it made sense when I was looking at a map (major route next to the water) and once I was there I felt committed to the route I'd chosen. I did not climb up into the wall area but I'm not a photographer. I'd imagine that after having spent a couple of weeks there (excluding side trips) she was feeling fairly comfortable.

Below is a link where you can "walk" along Kennedy Caddessi and get a little bit of a feel for the area...the kind of feel somebody like myself, or Sarai, who was not familiar with Istanbul would have.

http://tinyurl.com/bprw7vm

Walking along Kennedy in that direction is easier to believe, it's the walking up into the walls at that specific very creepy location alone that I don't buy. You don't have to be familiar or unfamiliar with Istanbul to get a creepy feeling in that area. It's just not welcoming, and in my opinion I give sarai more credit then wandering into that area, into those walls alone.

It's not like that area is notoriously dangerous, and people tell you to avoid it, its that most people would have no reason to wander there period, and if you do find yourself there, instinct would tell you its creepy and you don't venture into the depths of those walls alone.
 
Having watched this vid several times I still cannot see a guy with a smartphone, or what would be on it if I could.....is there a different video of that ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4BD_j97R5I

It's right there at 1:40 on the video. But looking at it again, it seems the second photo is another one of SS (wearing something red), not the girl in red on the street.

It's official, I've joined a new forum that's wrecked my mind.
 
Thanks for that url map, Radiator. That's exactly what I was trying to find. I can see the "cave" where she was found. It has the graffitti but the hole present in the LE videos is still intact. It's a little bit difficult to see because of tree cover. It certainly does seem like it would be one of the most remote parts of the waterfront and wall, not really where casual tourists would stroll much.

Remember, she was actually attacked 328 ft away from where she was found, so she may not actually have walked that far down Kennedy but she crossed over and went up into the wall.

Does anyone have any idea which direction is the site she was attacked- north or south of the "cave"?
 
It's right there at 1:40 on the video. But looking at it again, it seems the second photo is another one of SS (wearing something red), not the girl in red on the street.

It's official, I've joined a new forum that's wrecked my mind.

Thanks, your video is longer than the one i originally saw.
this is yours
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4BD_j97R5I
I wondered why they couldn't use a net...
 
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