GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

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Not meaning to be too talkative here...But I think Sarai did come on the trip for romance and great photography. ( And I agree with someone earlier, that the instagram connections and praise had buoyed her self-esteem)....And she thought it was all coming together (the romance and the great photography ) that afternoon.

I like what you are saying here. But IMO Taylan was through with her the night before. He either got what he wanted, or not, and than avoided her that morning. It was just too convenient that he "overslept" and they did not connect.

I think SS expected to link up with him that day. But went on alone. So, I'm not willing to let this Talan character off the hook. He is slimy. He proved it by how he acted when it was discovered she was missing. At the very least he failed her, leading to this tragedy.
 
This is such a great post! On another forum I attend we are allowed to nominate great posts. I can only thank yours.

Thanks so much. I really thought about all the things I have written so far. The one below is my favorite. Wasn't really planned.



I think they've got him.



YASHIM

Tell us tell us tell us

What is going on?:eek:hwow:



Sorry I thought I heard a knock on my door.



...
 
No, wpoe, thanks for posting it. I think they may have had sex in that bathroom the night before, and she is sweet and naive. It's hard to believe he was asleep if her text came at 11:30am. But somewhere, perhaps on here it was said, that he texted her and said he was meeting her and did she have her wireless. ( I'm not that tech savvy is that for gps location?) T then in articles said her phone was off, for now we'll suspect Z of doing that. Then earllier I cited that article that said he went with a friend to look for her in the neighborhood where they were to meet. (the caves?)

Of course, I agree , he looks suspicious: last to see her ( and perhaps sex in a bar bathroom stall...such a classy gentleman), last to text her, were supposed to meet. But the dna evidence is pointing to Z and not him.

I think it's hard to switch to the random killer notion when for days we've been batting around far more intriguing notions. Any way it happened, though, such a tragedy.
 
Did you read the latest news? I tried to translate 1-2 paragraphs, Z's friends do not believe he can kill a person. On the other hand Z called his brother on the 9th and said he would go to Syria, he just had to. He would talk a friend who is a soldier, and call his brother in an hour. But he never did. His brother wants him to turn himself to the police.
This means he maybe already in Syria since his brother did not hear from him again.

Thank you, i don't see these details in the english version.
 
A couple of pages back, one member posted an article published online as an automated translation and another member asked if someone could provide a better translation. I think the original article must have been this:
http://m.haberturk.com/icerik.aspx?CID=1&ID=822183

Here’s my attempt. I’m not a native speaker and have only intermediate-level knowledge of Turkish, so please don’t take this as authoritative. (Some words I didn’t know and a few guesses/ comments/additions of my own are in square brackets.) Of course others wıll be able to correct/clarify anything that might be important.

Actually, I don’t think there is much, if anything, that new or important that’s directly relevant to the case (only the description of what may be another link in a growing chain of tragic circumstances)—but being new to WS, I’ll leave that to the more experienced sleuths here to determine.
_________________________
Ziya T., who is being sought as the number one suspect in the killing of American Sarai Sierra, was last seen in Karabuk. The only thing known about Ziya T., who is being searched for everywhere by a special team of Istanbul police, is that he lived on the streets, collecting paper. So who is Ziya T.? What kind of life has he led? 15 days ago, after staying a few days [sırra kadem bastığı], he went to Karabuk. We spoke with his older brother Hamdi T. and his friends from the neighborhood. We were looking for answers to these questions.

Ziya T. was born as the seventh and youngest child of a family from Trabzon. He lost his father when he was 10 days old. His mother having married again, he got acquainted with [life on] the streets at age 11 because of his stepfather’s {harsh treatment?]. He grew up on the streets. For every 3 days at home, he spent 6 months on the streets [not sure about this sentence]. He entered school very late. He was enrolled at age 10; 3 days later he gave it up and ran away.

Hamdi T., the last person to see Ziya, related some of his brother’s life experiences: “At age 15 he was put in prison for stealing a tape [recorder] and a TV from a shop. He was locked up for 7 years. He did his military service. After that he did temporary/casual jobs. His last job was as a worker in a metalworking (iron and steel) shop. When he lost his job and his engagement was broken off, he returned to the streets. 6 years ago [kendine mesken tuttu] the streets of Istanbul. He lived in the depths of the walls, jobless [terk edilmiş mekanlar]. He struggled to [make a living?] collecting paper. For many years he was a substance abuser and addicted to gambling. He was shut within himself, he had no friends.”

We learned that he gave two different answers to his family and acquaintances [in Karabuk] when he said he was going to Syria and they asked, “Why are you running away?” He told his family members, “I’m ill, my [liver/lungs] are shot. I have 6 months to live. I’ve come to [make my peace].” To his childhood friend Zafer Ozdemir, he said, “I’m going to Hatay, and from there I’m going to go to Syria or Iran.”

His older brother doesn’t believe that Ziya T. is the killer. Still, he has a [nagging?] suspicion. He says that when his brother came, he took him to a barber for a shave and then they went to a coffee shop and talked for about an hour. “He didn’t look at all like someone who had committed a crime and was on the run. His saying, ‘I’m going to escape to Syria’ is confusing to me. If you’re not guilty of something like this, why flee the country? If my brother did kill the American woman I curse him.”

[I don’t know some key words in the next part. I *think* maybe it says that to get information about his brother, they treated him, too, like a suspect and held him for 30 hours.] “Why, despite all this and after 15 days, hasn’t my brother been found? I’m concerned for his life. I’m going to go to Syria and find my brother before the CIA does,” he says.

It’s been learned that in order to travel from Karabuk to Hatay, Ziya T bought a bus ticket not in his own name but someone else’s. That person is understood to be coffee shop owner Murat Çimen. Çimen said, “He came to my shop in the morning/s. A week later a policeman came. He showed me the pictures that the team from Istanbul brought. I said I didn’t know/recognize him/the person. [I may have those last couple of sentences completely wrong.] At my shop, Ziya said, ‘My business in Istanbul is finished/I have nothing more to do in Istanbul. A lady was killed there. I’m going to go to Hatay, and from there to Syria.” When shown a photograph, the bus attendant identified Ziya T.: “On the bus he seemed quiet. He was well-dressed. He sat quietly. He didn’t get off the bus [during one of the rest stops along the way] anywhere. He got off in Hatay.”

[the list seen at this point in the article is just a repetition of some details from above]

Latest news [at the time this article was written]:
His brother said the police contacted someone whose cell phone Ziya T. used [think that’s right but not sure] after he went to Hatay, and the person told the police Ziya T. was going toward Reyhanlı [I think that’s a border town/post?] on foot.
 
A couple of pages back, one member posted an article published online as an automated translation and another member asked if someone could provide a better translation. I think the original article must have been this:
http://m.haberturk.com/icerik.aspx?CID=1&ID=822183

Here’s my attempt. I’m not a native speaker and have only intermediate-level knowledge of Turkish, so please don’t take this as authoritative. (Some words I didn’t know and a few guesses/ comments/additions of my own are in square brackets.) Of course others wıll be able to correct/clarify anything that might be important.

Actually, I don’t think there is much, if anything, that new or important that’s directly relevant to the case (only the description of what may be another link in a growing chain of tragic circumstances)—but being new to WS, I’ll leave that to the more experienced sleuths here to determine.
_________________________
Ziya T., who is being sought as the number one suspect in the killing of American Sarai Sierra, was last seen in Karabuk. The only thing known about Ziya T., who is being searched for everywhere by a special team of Istanbul police, is that he lived on the streets, collecting paper. So who is Ziya T.? What kind of life has he led? 15 days ago, after staying a few days [sırra kadem bastığı], he went to Karabuk. We spoke with his older brother Hamdi T. and his friends from the neighborhood. We were looking for answers to these questions.

Ziya T. was born as the seventh and youngest child of a family from Trabzon. He lost his father when he was 10 days old. His mother having married again, he got acquainted with [life on] the streets at age 11 because of his stepfather’s {harsh treatment?]. He grew up on the streets. For every 3 days at home, he spent 6 months on the streets [not sure about this sentence]. He entered school very late. He was enrolled at age 10; 3 days later he gave it up and ran away.

Hamdi T., the last person to see Ziya, related some of his brother’s life experiences: “At age 15 he was put in prison for stealing a tape [recorder] and a TV from a shop. He was locked up for 7 years. He did his military service. After that he did temporary/casual jobs. His last job was as a worker in a metalworking (iron and steel) shop. When he lost his job and his engagement was broken off, he returned to the streets. 6 years ago [kendine mesken tuttu] the streets of Istanbul. He lived in the depths of the walls, jobless [terk edilmiş mekanlar]. He struggled to [make a living?] collecting paper. For many years he was a substance abuser and addicted to gambling. He was shut within himself, he had no friends.”

We learned that he gave two different answers to his family and acquaintances [in Karabuk] when he said he was going to Syria and they asked, “Why are you running away?” He told his family members, “I’m ill, my [liver/lungs] are shot. I have 6 months to live. I’ve come to [make my peace].” To his childhood friend Zafer Ozdemir, he said, “I’m going to Hatay, and from there I’m going to go to Syria or Iran.”

His older brother doesn’t believe that Ziya T. is the killer. Still, he has a [nagging?] suspicion. He says that when his brother came, he took him to a barber for a shave and then they went to a coffee shop and talked for about an hour. “He didn’t look at all like someone who had committed a crime and was on the run. His saying, ‘I’m going to escape to Syria’ is confusing to me. If you’re not guilty of something like this, why flee the country? If my brother did kill the American woman I curse him.”

[I don’t know some key words in the next part. I *think* maybe it says that to get information about his brother, they treated him, too, like a suspect and held him for 30 hours.] “Why, despite all this and after 15 days, hasn’t my brother been found? I’m concerned for his life. I’m going to go to Syria and find my brother before the CIA does,” he says.

It’s been learned that in order to travel from Karabuk to Hatay, Ziya T bought a bus ticket not in his own name but someone else’s. That person is understood to be coffee shop owner Murat Çimen. Çimen said, “He came to my shop in the morning/s. A week later a policeman came. He showed me the pictures that the team from Istanbul brought. I said I didn’t know/recognize him/the person. [I may have those last couple of sentences completely wrong.] At my shop, Ziya said, ‘My business in Istanbul is finished/I have nothing more to do in Istanbul. A lady was killed there. I’m going to go to Hatay, and from there to Syria.” When shown a photograph, the bus attendant identified Ziya T.: “On the bus he seemed quiet. He was well-dressed. He sat quietly. He didn’t get off the bus [during one of the rest stops along the way] anywhere. He got off in Hatay.”

[the list seen at this point in the article is just a repetition of some details from above]

Latest news [at the time this article was written]:
His brother said the police contacted someone whose cell phone Ziya T. used [think that’s right but not sure] after he went to Hatay, and the person told the police Ziya T. was going toward Reyhanlı [I think that’s a border town/post?] on foot.

Thank you so much for translating this!:seeya:
 
ozma, good job and very interesting. don't sell your self short as a sleuther, either.
 
So I was curious as to what kind of person Sarai might have encountered at those ancient city walls. Junkies and criminals are known to frequent and live in that area. I did a quick look-up and found some interesting side effects inhalant abusers might experience.

If it is true Ziya has a history of inhaling thinner and is indeed guilty, or if Sarai bumped into some glue-sniffing stranger, they might have been exhibiting any number of the following general symptoms:

““Most inhalants depress the nervous system, resulting in effects similar to those of alcohol, according to Dr. Eric Chudler, a neuroscientist at the University of Washington's Department of Bioengineering in Seattle. Inhalants cause relaxation, euphoria, slurred speech, hallucinations, drowsiness, dizziness, nausea and vomiting. Users of inhalants may lose the ability to walk, talk or think. Other noticeable signs in people using inhalants include nosebleeds, runny nose or reddened eyes. Sudden violent behavior may result because of the effect inhalants have on the brain, according to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Service Administration (SAMHSA).”

In light of the abovementioned, anything could have driven Ziya to murder. It didn’t even have to be something Sarai did or said to cause such rage.

All his friends and family are saying to preserve his character is irrelevant now that he is a suspected murderer. So often people dchange for no reason whatsoever, and it takes everybody by surprise.

Knowing now how inhalants can damage the brain, it seems you’re taking a huge gamble with your sanity and morality the moment those fumes enter your airway.

Sources:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/117072-side-effects-inhalants/

For a longer list of symptoms, go here:

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/inhalants/effects.html
 
I agree. I think the Turkish police are much too smart to be fooled or tricked by questionable or lying witnesses. They've continuously maintained that they are holding onto 95% of the evidence (which is a major feat in itself, as other nations would have leaks all over the place) So I'm guessing they absolutely know it's her on the video and that she did die in the time frame they give and that Z is involved. Assuming all that...

In trying to understand this case, we all try to put ourselves in Sarai or the perps shoes, but know little to nothing about her or them.

I can only speak for myself and I just think, if it was me, (me, not her), I wouldn't take photos of people in a foreign country without their permission, and I would never, ever go walking in isolated wooded areas alone. That's me.
However, if my friend didn't show, based on T and the texts being true, I might take pictures on a crowded bridge and then go looking for a place to eat, (or for wireless availability if she needed it for the phone/Ipad which I wouldn't know). I'd hope to have a friend to meet, but if not, I'd still explore side streets or heavily trafficked streets. I wouldn't stay in my room all day. I might look for a cafe or restaurant to sit in and look at my pics, or maybe visit someplace that everyone said is a 'must see'. Maybe look for a restaurant/hotel where I could stop to use the restroom, even.

Perhaps she was followed at some point? She ended up in a cave, doesn't mean she went traipsin around the cave area.

The video-My friend brought up a good point. Her own trendy daughter dresses in leggings and skinnys like Sarai's photos show her while in NYC, but the family is from Spain and her daughter always wears conservative outfits when she visits with her family in Spain, and points out that a tourist would and should be respectful of the culture she's visiting.
It's hard to tell if the girl on the grainy video is wearing jeans, they might be dark slacks.

Googlemap shows a fair amount of restaurants and possibly a bazaar (?) and a mosque off Kennedy.
Thinkhard, Herat, Yashim, anyone familiar with that area of Istanbul, if she planned to visit a religious mosque or a nice restaurant, would her outfit be considered appropriate? And are there such places close to where she was seen walking? Any 'must sees'?

That's interesting, is Spain more conservative like Turkey as well? I thought Spain was European - I guess it's not. I also thought Turkish people dressed the same as European - and I think that people in NYC also dress similar to Europeans...are you then referring to Muslim persons, their culture and the way they believe a woman should dress?
 
That's interesting, is Spain more conservative like Turkey as well? I thought Spain was European - I guess it's not. I also thought Turkish people dressed the same as European - and I think that people in NYC also dress similar to Europeans...are you then referring to Muslim persons, their culture and the way they believe a woman should dress?

Here is a blog about street style in Istanbul, there are lots of photos, and I think you will see from going through them that fashion is as varied and interesting in Istanbul as you would find in NYC.

http://sylvscothran.buzznet.com/photos/streetstylethecolors/list/

Here's another one.

http://www.shoplatitude.com/blog/street-style-istanbul/
 
That's interesting, is Spain more conservative like Turkey as well? I thought Spain was European - I guess it's not. I also thought Turkish people dressed the same as European - and I think that people in NYC also dress similar to Europeans...are you then referring to Muslim persons, their culture and the way they believe a woman should dress?

I don't understand this post. Of course Spain is European, and no, it's not particularly conservative, although it depends entirely on what segments of the population you're referring to and what parts of Spain they live in. Do Spaniards dress differently from Turks? Maybe, maybe not...again, depending on where they live, what their backgrounds are, what ethnic or religious groups they affiliate with, same as anywhere. And I disagree that people in NYC dress like Europeans. They tend to dress a lot better than your average European. You can almost always tell an American by the shoes, IMO, not to mention the fact that most of them are monolingual.

What is your point about Muslims? There are Muslims in every European country these days (as well as scores of them in America), more of them in countries that are either across the Mediterranean from Western Europe or bordering, like Turkey, on predominantly Muslim countries. Do they dress differently? Sure, some of them, but some of them not. You might see more women wearing hajibs in Istanbul than in Paris or Madrid, but there are plenty of women in France and Spain and everywhere else in Europe wearing visible signs of what we'd think of as "Muslim clothing."

But yes, at the end of the day I'd guess that you'd see more variation in dress on women in Istanbul than you would in, say, Madrid.

Sorry, don't mean to be snarky, but I just didn't really understand your post.
 
That's interesting, is Spain more conservative like Turkey as well? I thought Spain was European - I guess it's not. I also thought Turkish people dressed the same as European - and I think that people in NYC also dress similar to Europeans...are you then referring to Muslim persons, their culture and the way they believe a woman should dress?


People in NYC differ in clothing style in one major way. We don't always feel the need to get "dressed' when going outside. You'll see plenty of people bumming around in sloppy teeshirts and jeans and sweats etc.

Not so in "these parts of the world" Namely, Europe and Turkey and anywhere around the Mediterranean. Those women "dress" in general, especially women around Sarai's age. I don't see anything wrong with her style, she would have fit right in. Going into mosques as a tourist is not such a big deal, she was in Istanbul, not some obscure village out of the way.

ST Cirq, interesting observation about "American's Shoes" As a NYer I've learned to use people's shoes to tell who is a tourist and who is a NYer, this is because NYers tend to walk more and so will have shoes that are scuffed more than tourists who are used to driving everywhere.
 
I remember someone reporting (perhaps Yashim translated an article) that SS was seen photographing a group of homeless and was then left alone with Z. Perhaps she had already crossed the road before meeting the group, or crossed with the group...the group seem kind and helpful (and she's naive and trusting)..and then she's left alone with Z.

I don't know if it's this one, nothing about homeless though. lavy translated it.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased Turkey - NY - Sarai Sierra, 33, 21 Jan 2013 - Mother of two #2

Police found out that from surveillance videos that she was walking on the seaside and she sees the historical door in cankurtaran and cross the road to take a photo.
 
At :55 on the video, a better view of wall where she was buried. I tried to locate it from the other side but could not find those ruins.

[video=youtube;_wPu4w2myH8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wPu4w2myH8[/video]
 
That's interesting, is Spain more conservative like Turkey as well? I thought Spain was European - I guess it's not. I also thought Turkish people dressed the same as European - and I think that people in NYC also dress similar to Europeans...are you then referring to Muslim persons, their culture and the way they believe a woman should dress?

Hi Roland,
No I believe all major cities in Spain are just as cosmopolitan as NYC and Istanbul. But when the daughter goes to visit her family and they are going to church or to dinner with her grandparents, she dresses more conservatively.If she was going to a club in Madrid she would dress like a club in NYC.
My question to the Isanbul familar persons was,being that I was not sure how a person might dress going to a mosque in Istanbul, or even an upperclass restaurant, would casual jeans or leggings be inappropriate for that occasion.

This is just an example but lots of major cities in Europe look down on sneakers, though many Americans feel perfectly comfortable wearing them to lots of places.
So every country has it subtle takes on what is and isn't fashionable in certain situations.
 
People in NYC differ in clothing style in one major way. We don't always feel the need to get "dressed' when going outside. You'll see plenty of people bumming around in sloppy teeshirts and jeans and sweats etc.

Not so in "these parts of the world" Namely, Europe and Turkey and anywhere around the Mediterranean. Those women "dress" in general, especially women around Sarai's age. I don't see anything wrong with her style, she would have fit right in. Going into mosques as a tourist is not such a big deal, she was in Istanbul, not some obscure village out of the way.

ST Cirq, interesting observation about "American's Shoes" As a NYer I've learned to use people's shoes to tell who is a tourist and who is a NYer, this is because NYers tend to walk more and so will have shoes that are scuffed more than tourists who are used to driving everywhere.

That's true, I pretty much stopped wearing heals when I lived in ny for this very reason.


Also just adding to stcirqs post and not wanting to start a whole other one.
You do sometimes see full burkas in Istanbul but it is NOT very common. When you see them its usually in the older more concervative areas of the city, like in fatih around chora church. But it's still very uncommon.

The one acception is, if you find yourself in Istanbul in the summer, then you see a ton of women in the touristy areas in full burkas. But these aren't usually Turkish women, they are usually tourists from Saudia Arabia, and Iran, etc. They like to come to Istanbul for the shopping. It's actually kind of interesting because you will see these women in full burkas texting away on a blackberry. One of the stranger things I saw, strange as in you just wouldnt expect, is I saw a women in Zara in an upscale mall, Istinye park, she was wearing a full burka, she was in front of me in line, and she was buying this little fancy short summer dress, like one would wear to go out at night....I love turkey for these very reasons, it makes you question what you think you know about things, its such an interesting east meets west.
 
Hi Roland,
No I believe all major cities in Spain are just as cosmopolitan as NYC and Istanbul. But when the daughter goes to visit her family and they are going to church or to dinner with her grandparents, she dresses more conservatively.If she was going to a club in Madrid she would dress like a club in NYC.
My question to the Isanbul familar persons was,being that I was not sure how a person might dress going to a mosque in Istanbul, or even an upperclass restaurant, would casual jeans or leggings be inappropriate for that occasion.

This is just an example but lots of major cities in Europe look down on sneakers, though many Americans feel perfectly comfortable wearing them to lots of places.
So every country has it subtle takes on what is and isn't fashionable in certain situations.

Well if your going to a fancy restaurant at night, I wouldn't think jeans and sneakers to be acceptable in most countries....

But as far as I said earlier mosques are more concerned with skin coverage, not style...and you take off your shoes not matter what they might be.
 
What's interesting about a woman in a full hijab texting on a blackberry or buying short dresses? They are not in the stone age mentally just because they don't like to reveal their bodies to the world. They also wear those cute little dresses under their hijab.

Wearing a hijab is no different than a Jewish woman wearing a wig. It doesn't mean they are archaic and extremely conservative. Spiritual devotion and covering ones head is an act of piety, not a decision to forgo modernity.
 
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