TX - 10 deceased as a result of crowd surge at Astroworld festival, Houston, 5 Nov 2021

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My best friend had her tooth knocked out during travis Scott’s set at bonaroo one year. She is only 5’ tall and got stuck in the chaotic crowd. Luckily two guys pulled her out, but she said it was terrifying.

Travis Scott is problematic. He encourages this behavior. he pretty much makes it his schtick. I truly hope he pays for the funerals and medical expenses of the victims. But I won’t hold my breath.

jmo
 
dotr said:
IDENTIFIED.
  • RIP Axel.
  • 11208910_axel-acosta-3.jpg
  • 11208909_axel-acosta-2.jpg
Father identifies unknown Astroworld Fest victim as his 21-year-old son Axel Acosta
''Edgar Acosta confirmed to ABC13 that his son, Axel, was the unidentified victim that had been recovered from Memorial Hermann Hospital after the incident.

Cynthia Acosta, Axel's aunt, said her nephew traveled by himself from Washington to see rapper Travis Scott take the stage at NRG Park. He was at the event alone.

"It was his first time going to an event like that," said Cynthia.

Axel has just turned 21 last month. He was studying computer science at Western Washington University.

Acosta told ABC13 that police made it difficult for him to file a missing persons report on his son because Axel was living in Washington.''
Click to expand...
Omg. That’s so sad!
 
The only time I've ever been in a crowd that I felt would crush us was in a very different circumstance. It's 37 years later and I still remember.

We were at Great Adventures and there was a concert by a 60s group. I had a two-year old in a stroller and my friend had her one-year old in his. We somehow got caught in a crush between the first show letting out and people gathering for the second show.

I couldn’t hold onto the stroller, so I picked my daughter up and actually had trouble keeping her head above the crowd and trying to drag the stroller. My friend and I tried to stay together but the force of the crowd separated us. It took about 20 minutes to emerge and it was truly frightening.

My point is that this was a crowd of parents and little kids in an amusement park. NOT a concert, NOT people high, NOT people storming barricades, NOT a singer encouraging people to go wild. And yet it felt like life and death.

I can’t even picture how scared these people were and how the atmosphere and Travis encouraged this behavior. I hope lawsuits and prison follow.
 
Excuse the dumb question as I haven’t been to the type of concert that encourages rage and swarming the stage.

What is in it for the concert attendees? I’m trying to understand why anyone would acquiesce. Adrenaline??
 
A sad article about two of the victims who died.

"One of Patino’s sons put a call out on social media on Saturday to find the person seen in a grainy video trying to save Franco’s life. “I want to see who spent my brother final moments with [sic],” he wrote. He managed to get in touch with the person and thank him for giving Franco CPR.

"Franco’s father said the family has not yet heard from Scott, his team, or the festival’s organizers. [bbm]

"“I’m a project manager,” he said. “I know how to organize big projects and I believe they didn’t have all the contingencies in place. Something went very wrong. Who’s gonna pay the price for the life of these people?”"
 
I can't believe I am about to take the side of rap music and culture here because I am definitely not a fan. But, this thread has really taken me by surprise and I feel like someone needs to speak up. I am doing so mindful of the tragic loss of life at this event and with the intention of respectively providing an alternative point of view to consider for those of you who have expressed very negative opinions about rap music fans and more specifically Mr. Scott and his fans. I think it's important that the victims of this tragedy WERE fans of TS. What I'm reading in this thread strikes me as generational intolerance for behaviors and popular music that doesn't appeal to us. It feels very much like what my parent's generation said about those of us who listened to bands like The Cure and what their parent's said about fans of the Beatles. I too am overwhelmed with grief for the families of those who lost their lives Friday night. I agree that TS has before and did fuel the chaos that night, but ultimately the blame is not on one person's actions only here. There have already been multiple circumstances brought up that lead to what happened.
WS posters here and MSM articles reminded us of the 9 deaths at a Pearl Jam concert and the Hillsborough Disaster. There is no denying that rowdy behavior is not limited to TS fans. It was IMO a predictable possibility that the crowd would be extra hyped up after not just the last 20 months of pent up anxiety, but another year or so of hightened social tension too. After all, TS's music speaks to his fans' angst. That is why he is so popular.
Knowing that, concert organizers within TS's production team, Live Nation, Astroworld's management and city leaders should have ensured a plan for how to respond to an emergency (without prompting a riot or stampede.)
I don't agree that TS understood what was happening just because he saw a few unconscious people being crowd surfed to safety. According to several of the MSM articles posted, it's not uncommon at all for concert goers to pass out during all types of concerts for a variety of reasons.
We don't know yet what information if any reached TS during the performance. We can speculate that people tried to alert him as he was seen shooing a couple of people away, but we don't know what they were going to say. Furthermore, if those people did have knowledge of the extreme circumstances, why would they not have disregarded him waving them away to make that clear.
And, most importantly, what was the plan to help calm the crowd once he was notified? I think we need to know that.

All the talk about the cost of his stage design and the ticket prices as a reflection of TS's character is IMO kind of off base too when prices to attend college and pro-sporting events are at least as high and that kind of money is regularly spent for one time events in plenty of industries. I mean, how much did the NFL pay to do the setup for this year's draft? From the outside any of those kinds of expenditures does seem exorbitant and wasteful, but you have to remember, that money provides jobs for a lot of people.

Again, I'm not trying to say TS holds no responsibility. I'm just pointing out that there are other people and factors that contributed to the situation. I just think it would be more beneficial to address the mistakes made and the lack of an effective emergency response plan then to use this forum to vent our anger with and disgust of TS, his music, and/or what we perceive of his fan base. It just seems more in keeping with the spirit of WS in my opinion.
 
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tamsidea said:
I can't believe I am about to take the side of rap music and culture here because I am definitely not a fan. But, this thread has really taken me by surprise and I feel like someone needs to speak up. I am doing so mindful of the tragic loss of life at this event and with the intention of respectively providing an alternative point of view to consider for those of you who have expressed very negative opinions about rap music fans and more specifically Mr. Scott and his fans. I think it's important that the victims of this tragedy WERE fans of TS. What I'm reading in this thread strikes me as generational intolerance for behaviors and popular music that doesn't appeal to us. It feels very much like what my parent's generation said about those of us who listened to bands like The Cure and what their parent's said about fans of the Beatles. I too am overwhelmed with grief for the families of those who lost their lives Saturday night. I agree that TS has before and did fuel the chaos that night, but ultimately the blame is not on one person's actions only here. There have already been multiple circumstances brought up that lead to what happened.
WS posters here and MSM articles reminded us of the 9 deaths at a Pearl Jam concert and the Hillsborough Disaster. There is no denying that rowdy behavior is not limited to TS fans. It was IMO a predictable possibility that the crowd would be extra hyped up after not just the last 20 months of pent up anxiety, but another year or so of hightened social tension too. After all, TS's music speaks to his fans' angst. That is why he is so popular.
Knowing that, concert organizers within TS's production team, Live Nation, Astroworld's management and city leaders should have ensured a plan for how to respond to an emergency without prompting a riot or stampede.
I don't agree that TS understood what was happening just because he saw a few unconscious people being crowd surfed to safety. According to several of the MSM articles posted, it's not uncommon at all for concert goers to pass out during all types of concerts for a variety of reasons.
We don't know yet what information if any reached TS during the performance. We can speculate that people tried to alert him as he was seen shooing a couple of people away, but we don't know what they were going to say. Furthermore, if those people did have knowledge of the extreme circumstances, why would they not have disregarded him waving them away to make that clear.
And, most importantly, what was the plan to help calm the crowd once he was notified? I think we need to know that.

All the talk about the cost of his stage design and the ticket prices as a reflection of TS's character is IMO kind of off base too when prices to attend college and pro-sporting events are at least as high and that kind of money is regularly spent for one time events in plenty of industries. I mean, how much did the NFL pay to do the setup for this year's draft? From the outside any of those kinds of expenditures does seem exorbitant and wasteful, but you have to remember, that money provides jobs for a lot of people.

Again, I'm not trying to say TS holds no responsibility. I'm just pointing out that there are other people and factors that contributed to the situation. I just think it would be more beneficial to address the mistakes made and the lack of an effective emergency response plan then to use this forum to vent our anger with and disgust of TS, his music, and/or what we perceive of his fan base. It just seems more in keeping with the spirit of WS in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Totally hear you and respect you so much for posting this.
 
tamsidea said:
I can't believe I am about to take the side of rap music and culture here because I am definitely not a fan. But, this thread has really taken me by surprise and I feel like someone needs to speak up. I am doing so mindful of the tragic loss of life at this event and with the intention of respectively providing an alternative point of view to consider for those of you who have expressed very negative opinions about rap music fans and more specifically Mr. Scott and his fans. I think it's important that the victims of this tragedy WERE fans of TS. What I'm reading in this thread strikes me as generational intolerance for behaviors and popular music that doesn't appeal to us. It feels very much like what my parent's generation said about those of us who listened to bands like The Cure and what their parent's said about fans of the Beatles. I too am overwhelmed with grief for the families of those who lost their lives Saturday night. I agree that TS has before and did fuel the chaos that night, but ultimately the blame is not on one person's actions only here. There have already been multiple circumstances brought up that lead to what happened.
WS posters here and MSM articles reminded us of the 9 deaths at a Pearl Jam concert and the Hillsborough Disaster. There is no denying that rowdy behavior is not limited to TS fans. It was IMO a predictable possibility that the crowd would be extra hyped up after not just the last 20 months of pent up anxiety, but another year or so of hightened social tension too. After all, TS's music speaks to his fans' angst. That is why he is so popular.
Knowing that, concert organizers within TS's production team, Live Nation, Astroworld's management and city leaders should have ensured a plan for how to respond to an emergency without prompting a riot or stampede.
I don't agree that TS understood what was happening just because he saw a few unconscious people being crowd surfed to safety. According to several of the MSM articles posted, it's not uncommon at all for concert goers to pass out during all types of concerts for a variety of reasons.
We don't know yet what information if any reached TS during the performance. We can speculate that people tried to alert him as he was seen shooing a couple of people away, but we don't know what they were going to say. Furthermore, if those people did have knowledge of the extreme circumstances, why would they not have disregarded him waving them away to make that clear.
And, most importantly, what was the plan to help calm the crowd once he was notified? I think we need to know that.

All the talk about the cost of his stage design and the ticket prices as a reflection of TS's character is IMO kind of off base too when prices to attend college and pro-sporting events are at least as high and that kind of money is regularly spent for one time events in plenty of industries. I mean, how much did the NFL pay to do the setup for this year's draft? From the outside any of those kinds of expenditures does seem exorbitant and wasteful, but you have to remember, that money provides jobs for a lot of people.

Again, I'm not trying to say TS holds no responsibility. I'm just pointing out that there are other people and factors that contributed to the situation. I just think it would be more beneficial to address the mistakes made and the lack of an effective emergency response plan then to use this forum to vent our anger with and disgust of TS, his music, and/or what we perceive of his fan base. It just seems more in keeping with the spirit of WS in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I am a fan of hip hop, as well as edm which also has a big festival culture. My issue is traviss response, or lack thereof. He has exhibited these behaviors in the past - refer to the fan left paralyzed after a concert. Browse Reddit for an hour and you can see no shortage of how respectable artists handle chaos at their concerts. Linkin park, playboi carti, Billie eilish…. Artists from all genres. I stand by my statement that Travis Scott is problematic.
 
tamsidea said:
I can't believe I am about to take the side of rap music and culture here because I am definitely not a fan. But, this thread has really taken me by surprise and I feel like someone needs to speak up. I am doing so mindful of the tragic loss of life at this event and with the intention of respectively providing an alternative point of view to consider for those of you who have expressed very negative opinions about rap music fans and more specifically Mr. Scott and his fans. I think it's important that the victims of this tragedy WERE fans of TS. What I'm reading in this thread strikes me as generational intolerance for behaviors and popular music that doesn't appeal to us. It feels very much like what my parent's generation said about those of us who listened to bands like The Cure and what their parent's said about fans of the Beatles. I too am overwhelmed with grief for the families of those who lost their lives Saturday night. I agree that TS has before and did fuel the chaos that night, but ultimately the blame is not on one person's actions only here. There have already been multiple circumstances brought up that lead to what happened.
WS posters here and MSM articles reminded us of the 9 deaths at a Pearl Jam concert and the Hillsborough Disaster. There is no denying that rowdy behavior is not limited to TS fans. It was IMO a predictable possibility that the crowd would be extra hyped up after not just the last 20 months of pent up anxiety, but another year or so of hightened social tension too. After all, TS's music speaks to his fans' angst. That is why he is so popular.
Knowing that, concert organizers within TS's production team, Live Nation, Astroworld's management and city leaders should have ensured a plan for how to respond to an emergency (without prompting a riot or stampede.)
I don't agree that TS understood what was happening just because he saw a few unconscious people being crowd surfed to safety. According to several of the MSM articles posted, it's not uncommon at all for concert goers to pass out during all types of concerts for a variety of reasons.
We don't know yet what information if any reached TS during the performance. We can speculate that people tried to alert him as he was seen shooing a couple of people away, but we don't know what they were going to say. Furthermore, if those people did have knowledge of the extreme circumstances, why would they not have disregarded him waving them away to make that clear.
And, most importantly, what was the plan to help calm the crowd once he was notified? I think we need to know that.

All the talk about the cost of his stage design and the ticket prices as a reflection of TS's character is IMO kind of off base too when prices to attend college and pro-sporting events are at least as high and that kind of money is regularly spent for one time events in plenty of industries. I mean, how much did the NFL pay to do the setup for this year's draft? From the outside any of those kinds of expenditures does seem exorbitant and wasteful, but you have to remember, that money provides jobs for a lot of people.

Again, I'm not trying to say TS holds no responsibility. I'm just pointing out that there are other people and factors that contributed to the situation. I just think it would be more beneficial to address the mistakes made and the lack of an effective emergency response plan then to use this forum to vent our anger with and disgust of TS, his music, and/or what we perceive of his fan base. It just seems more in keeping with the spirit of WS in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree there were other contributing factors but if TS didn’t encourage or support the chaos this would not have happened. There would be no reason to address mistakes of others if there wasn’t a reason to to begin with. He is negligent in my opinion.
 
bears10 said:
I am a fan of hip hop, as well as edm which also has a big festival culture. My issue is traviss response, or lack thereof. He has exhibited these behaviors in the past - refer to the fan left paralyzed after a concert. Browse Reddit for an hour and you can see no shortage of how respectable artists handle chaos at their concerts. Linkin park, playboi carti, Billie eilish…. Artists from all genres. I stand by my statement that Travis Scott is problematic.
Click to expand...
It appears so! I had never heard of or seen a musician get on stage and incite violence against an audience member. I knew nothing about this guy before this, never even heard his name, I’m like who?

But yeah appears “problematic”, no doubt.

Interested in technical dynamics of the incident as they come out.
 
Last edited:
tamsidea said:
I can't believe I am about to take the side of rap music and culture here because I am definitely not a fan. But, this thread has really taken me by surprise and I feel like someone needs to speak up. I am doing so mindful of the tragic loss of life at this event and with the intention of respectively providing an alternative point of view to consider for those of you who have expressed very negative opinions about rap music fans and more specifically Mr. Scott and his fans. I think it's important that the victims of this tragedy WERE fans of TS. What I'm reading in this thread strikes me as generational intolerance for behaviors and popular music that doesn't appeal to us. It feels very much like what my parent's generation said about those of us who listened to bands like The Cure and what their parent's said about fans of the Beatles. I too am overwhelmed with grief for the families of those who lost their lives Saturday night. I agree that TS has before and did fuel the chaos that night, but ultimately the blame is not on one person's actions only here. There have already been multiple circumstances brought up that lead to what happened.
WS posters here and MSM articles reminded us of the 9 deaths at a Pearl Jam concert and the Hillsborough Disaster. There is no denying that rowdy behavior is not limited to TS fans. It was IMO a predictable possibility that the crowd would be extra hyped up after not just the last 20 months of pent up anxiety, but another year or so of hightened social tension too. After all, TS's music speaks to his fans' angst. That is why he is so popular.
Knowing that, concert organizers within TS's production team, Live Nation, Astroworld's management and city leaders should have ensured a plan for how to respond to an emergency (without prompting a riot or stampede.)
I don't agree that TS understood what was happening just because he saw a few unconscious people being crowd surfed to safety. According to several of the MSM articles posted, it's not uncommon at all for concert goers to pass out during all types of concerts for a variety of reasons.
We don't know yet what information if any reached TS during the performance. We can speculate that people tried to alert him as he was seen shooing a couple of people away, but we don't know what they were going to say. Furthermore, if those people did have knowledge of the extreme circumstances, why would they not have disregarded him waving them away to make that clear.
And, most importantly, what was the plan to help calm the crowd once he was notified? I think we need to know that.

All the talk about the cost of his stage design and the ticket prices as a reflection of TS's character is IMO kind of off base too when prices to attend college and pro-sporting events are at least as high and that kind of money is regularly spent for one time events in plenty of industries. I mean, how much did the NFL pay to do the setup for this year's draft? From the outside any of those kinds of expenditures does seem exorbitant and wasteful, but you have to remember, that money provides jobs for a lot of people.

Again, I'm not trying to say TS holds no responsibility. I'm just pointing out that there are other people and factors that contributed to the situation. I just think it would be more beneficial to address the mistakes made and the lack of an effective emergency response plan then to use this forum to vent our anger with and disgust of TS, his music, and/or what we perceive of his fan base. It just seems more in keeping with the spirit of WS in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about some of these things. I really think this was a perfect storm (always is, isn’t it?) of TS’s thing being to encourage chaos at his shows and like you said—people being holed up during Covid. People don’t know how to behave anymore (anyone take a flight lately?), security and LE are out of practice and 50,000 people is ALOT of people to manage!
I’m not yet sure if I think they were purposely not stopping the concert. I think everyone is so focused on their job and the fact that a little chaos is normal at concerts might have just made them not believe it was actually that bad. But we’ll see as more comes out. I do think the fact that it was live streaming might have held their blinders on a little tighter.
I do think the organizers do have a responsibility to keep festival goers safe and they clearly failed. I also think TS is responsible for repeatedly encouraging the chaos that resulted in 8 people’s lives lost and hundreds hurt.

The Cure was my first concert as a young teen and my mom was disgusted. Still is! Lol. :rolleyes:
 
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