TX - 10 deceased as a result of crowd surge at Astroworld festival, Houston, 5 Nov 2021

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Arkay said:
So true. I've posted several times that IMO he was the king and could have announced that the show was over unless they would settle down. But settling down a crowd seems the antithesis of his stagecraft, based on what we've learned about his prior performances. Arrested more than once for inciting the crowd and urging his fans to break through the gates and to get ever wilder? This is not a surprise.

What IS stunning to me is his spokesperson acting like Travis was not empowered to end the show, and only the producer could do that. How ridiculous! Travis Scott does not strike me as meek and mild and easily intimidated. If he was afraid the crowd would boo him or demand refunds, he really just needed to restore the safety in the crowd and then he could have resumed, IMO.

He had the stage, the mic; he was the focal point. Get on the mic and inform the crowd of what was happening and refuse to sing or dance or continue the music until it was safe.

When I was a new teacher, a veteran teacher taught me that when a given class (I taught 8th grade) was rowdy, the way to restore control of the classroom was NOT to yell, but instead to go silent. Very quickly the noise level would drop and the kids would shush each other, wondering why I was silent. That worked beautifully for my entire career. I wonder if Travis had just gone absolutely silent and rooted to one spot, if the crowd would've quickly gone silent, as well. Then when he had their undivided attention, he could have explained what was happening. I don't know because time was of the essence, and in a classroom it was not literal life or death.

He made the wrong choices, though; that is clear.
Click to expand...

In a hyped up concert situation, the artist is the ONLY person who has a the capacity to stop the show without creating another tragedy. That's why the artist always steps in at safe shows where there is real concern by the artist for their very human fans. A crowd is inherently dangerous and creates huge risks. Most artists take significant steps to mitigate those risks and understand instinctively that they are the "last line" of safe defense and will act responsibly and in concert (no pun intended) with that principle.

And I'm not willing to just blame TS. He was not, to me, a regular artist who worked their way up. He isn't Taylor Swift or James Taylor. The career trajectories of the artists I'm most familiar with leave them unable & unwilling to forget the regular people from whence they came.

TS is an "invention", a corporate creation who then "merged" with the KarJenner empire. It's absurd world and thus irresponsibility world. There's a difference with artists who grow with their fans, care deeply, and remain very human. I use JT, Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon as that type of role model. But I've seen so many videos of currently popular artists at all kinds of shows, in all kinds of venues, stepping in forcefully on behalf of the fans and taking control of any crowd in no uncertain terms. Those artists remain "real people". TS is just a relatively untalented creation, IMO. <modsnip> The Travis Scott Brand Wasn't Built For This

He continued to play "crazed" "rager" while merging with McDonalds. He had a huge unsophisticated young audience who were being repeatedly exposed to him in places geared to that young age. Yet he continued to promote not following rules, not buying tickets but breaking in, not following LE instructions at concerts, & more.

From what I've read, a possible causal difference at this concert may have to do with the floor plan necessitated by the filming of the live stream deal. Normally there is no sectioned off middle aisle which was blocked off here for the film crew. So there were fences along both sides and behind the section, thus only one way in or out. No one could get OUT as so many were coming in so the people already there were pushed sideways & back into fencing. The only way out thus was to be lifted above the crowd and there are many videos of that happening.

TS had simply incited the same behavior here that always happens but since the layout was different and the security ineffective (not sure if that's always the case) it had deadly impacts. But it's also not like no one has been physically hurt before at TS shows. So, I don't think TS is solely responsible. I think there's a lot of responsibility on a lot of people & companies.

Disclaimer: All expressed herein is, my opinion only, now & forever!
 
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10ofRods said:
…….<respectfully snipped by me>

Has NY ever had a 100,000 person outdoor event within the city limits? The security at the Houston event was very thin, in part because actual PD members are expensive (there were definitely some - in the VIP area, as far as I can tell. Then, the event security and medics were small in number and the medics were not well trained. I assume the security was probably just your average concert security - they were helpless to control something that got this large.

……<respectfully snipped by me>
Click to expand...

I do not believe there were 100,000 people at the Astroworld festival that terrible night. According to the article linked below, official know 50,000 tickets were sold, which was all of the tickets available. VERY unfortunately many unticketed concert-goers broke through security to get in, but it was not another 50,000.
Logistically the parking lot venue could have held around 200,000, but they did have the foresight to limit the ticket sakes to 50,000. It is a huge parking lot, and if the crowd was better dispersed, we would not have had the tragedy. It was when so many rushed to push into a very finite space that it set in motion this nightmare.

We must demand better controls for these types of events, or we must redefine the standards for how to do them safely. This can never happen again. It has happened too many times already.

Fact check: Travis Scott's Astroworld maximum capacity

Officials with the Houston Fire Department said NRG Park could have held more than 200,000 people, but attendance was limited to 50,000 guests.

……

There is no occupancy permit for an outdoor event,” Peña said at a news conference on Nov. 6. He added that "just based on math" the venue could have had over 200,000 people if the fire code assembly occupancy formula was applied, but city officials limited attendance to 50,000 guests.
Click to expand...
 
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HawthorneJuniper said:
In a hyped up concert situation, the artist is the ONLY person who has a the capacity to stop the show without creating another tragedy. That's why the artist always steps in at safe shows where there is real concern by the artist for their very human fans. A crowd is inherently dangerous and creates huge risks. Most artists take significant steps to mitigate those risks and understand instinctively that they are the "last line" of safe defense and will act responsibly and in concert (no pun intended) with that principle.

And I'm not willing to just blame TS. He was not, to me, a regular artist who worked their way up. He isn't Taylor Swift or James Taylor. The career trajectories of the artists I'm most familiar with leave them unable & unwilling to forget the regular people from whence they came.

TS is an "invention", a corporate creation who then "merged" with the KarJenner empire. It's absurd world and thus irresponsibility world. There's a difference with artists who grow with their fans, care deeply, and remain very human. I use JT, Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon as that type of role model. But I've seen so many videos of currently popular artists at all kinds of shows, in all kinds of venues, stepping in forcefully on behalf of the fans and taking control of any crowd in no uncertain terms. Those artists remain "real people". TS is just a relatively untalented creation, IMO. After merging with the KarJenners he became a face of kid oriented corporate America, Fortnight, McDonald's and that's where his willful disregard may become legally significant. The Travis Scott Brand Wasn't Built For This

He continued to play "crazed" "rager" while merging with McDonalds. He had a huge unsophisticated young audience who were being repeatedly exposed to him in places geared to that young age. Yet he continued to promote not following rules, not buying tickets but breaking in, not following LE instructions at concerts, & more.

From what I've read, a possible causal difference at this concert may have to do with the floor plan necessitated by the filming of the live stream deal. Normally there is no sectioned off middle aisle which was blocked off here for the film crew. So there were fences along both sides and behind the section, thus only one way in or out. No one could get OUT as so many were coming in so the people already there were pushed sideways & back into fencing. The only way out thus was to be lifted above the crowd and there are many videos of that happening.

TS had simply incited the same behavior here that always happens but since the layout was different and the security ineffective (not sure if that's always the case) it had deadly impacts. But it's also not like no one has been physically hurt before at TS shows. So, I don't think TS is solely responsible. I think there's a lot of responsibility on a lot of people & companies.
Click to expand...

The article you linked is absolutely crazy to me. I had no idea this guy was marketed towards kids. And with that kind of music???? WTH?
 
CocoChanel said:
I do not believe there were 100,000 people at the Astroworld festival that terrible night. According to the article linked below, official know 50,000 tickets were sold, which was all of the tickets available. VERY unfortunately many unticketed concert-goers broke through security to get in, but it was not another 50,000.
Logistically the parking lot venue could have held around 200,000, but they did have the foresight to limit the ticket sakes to 50,000. It is a huge parking lot, and if the crowd was better dispersed, we would not have had the tragedy. It was when so many rushed to push into a very finite space that it set in motion this nightmare.

We must demand better controls for these types of events, or we must redefine the standards for how to do them safely. This can never happen again. It has happened too many times already.

Fact check: Travis Scott's Astroworld maximum capacity was not 20,000
Click to expand...
Yes, there was 100,000 tickets sold for the 2 day event so 50,000 per day.
 
10ofRods said:
Has NY ever had a 100,000 person outdoor event within the city limits?
Click to expand...

There are a literal million people at Times Square on New Year’s Eve. Been there but would never go back.

Very, very many concerts in Central Park that have drawn over 100,000 fans.The free concerts by major stars are also festival seating. People also bring chairs and blankets, but those don't last in huge crowds where people are standing.

This link is just referencing rock concerts. I’ve been to many concerts in Central Park, including the Diana Ross lightning storm one.

The Garth Brooks concert was estimated to have 800,000 but that’s debatable.

Things have changed since Covid when we can’t have a huge crowd of people packed in together. Also since 9/11, even in a free concert LE is more security conscious. No one wants to allow a terrorist to sneak in with a bomb.

Various parades throughout the year draw 1,000,000 +, but that is spread over miles. The ticker tape parades as well as holiday and ethnic parades. The NYC marathon is the same, over a million people but spread out over miles.

So these are all “outdoor events within the city limits,” but you likely meant something in one locale, like a concert. Just throwing the rest out there in case you did mean any outdoor event within the city.

I imagine many of my fellow posters have seen some of these parades and gatherings on TV. I won’t go to any more ‘til Covid is a memory.

But yes, a city can handle enormous crowds without danger if LE and the organizers are well-rehearsed, experienced and very aware.





Central Park's Biggest Rock Concerts
 
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CocoChanel said:
9-year-old Ezra Blount injured at Astroworld dies from his injuries, family says

Ezra’s family is reporting he has died.
10 lives, gone, and Ezra was only 9 years old.
Click to expand...


:(:(:(:(:( Please @CocoChanel can we have a heartbroken emoji? I can’t express my desperate sorrow at this awful news.

I cannot believe this little boy should have died at a concert with his father.

Here’s a dad that lived in Dallas, not with his son, but apparently did fatherly things with him and knew him well enough to know his Ezra liked TS.

I imagine the father thought he was making a lifetime memory. I just don’t have the words for this.

How to get these celebrities to know or care that Ezra’s dad loved him as much as TS loves Stormi????????
 
CocoChanel said:
9-year-old Ezra Blount injured at Astroworld dies from his injuries, family says

Ezra’s family is reporting he has died.
10 lives, gone, and Ezra was only 9 years old.
There are no words, no laws, no amount of damages awarded that will ever heal this devastation.
Click to expand...
Oh no......(though I'm not surprised given the severity of his injuries.)
:tears:
So sorry for Ezra and his daddy and all of Ezra's family and friends. Life will never be the same without Ezra.

:rose:
 
Arkay said:
:(:(:(:(:( Please @CocoChanel can we have a heartbroken emoji? I can’t express my desperate sorrow at this awful news.

I cannot believe this little boy should have died at a concert with his father.

Here’s a dad that lived in Dallas, not with his son, but apparently did fatherly things with him and knew him well enough to know his Ezra liked TS.

I imagine the father thought he was making a lifetime memory. I just don’t have the words for this.

How to get these celebrities to know or care that Ezra’s dad loved him as much as TS loves Stormi????????
Click to expand...

@Arkay, I share your desperate sorrow at the death of Ezra, who will never get to live his dreams. Truthfully, I do not think there is an emoji, current or future, that could possibly convey what we cannot even put into words. It is the heaviness of a grief that came from a horror we didn’t even know was possible let alone knew to fear.
 
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al66pine said:
Publicity Stunt? or CoHinkyDink?
“Instagram star DJ Akademics claiming Drake has blown $1m on exotic performers while there. Video suggested Drake spent $1 million on strippers...The club wrote '2 floors covered with money." Drake went to a STRIP CLUB for a private party a day after his deadly Astroworld concert | Daily Mail Online* bbm sbm

Sooo,
after AstroWorld, TS & Drake decided on the spur of the moment to head to a strip club?
And,
Drake just happened to have handy a million $ in one dollar bills to casually throw around the club floor?
Altho,
One vid shows the club virtually empty.
Some pix of bills on floor seem to be undisturbed. I wonder when those pix were taken.

Or maybe someone, say, PR team for Drake, TS, or club, prearranging event got straps of bills (counterfeit bills? Fuzzy grainy pix, ya know), and called paparazzi beforehand for photo ops of scene.

If there are pix/vid of Drake & TS there, I missed them. Maybe they were at Bible study? A Neil deGrasse Tyson astronomy lecture? Maybe they were at club. IDK.

Call me a cynic, but based on various aspects of the story,* I'm calling it a staged publicity stunt, albeit badly timed. Some might say it backfired.

Not commenting on these two in particular but saying I personally have doubts about the authenticity of celebrity "news."
But I am sure those AstroWorld deaths & injuries were all too real. A massive tragedy. my2ct
_______________________________
* Drake went to a STRIP CLUB for a private party a day after his deadly Astroworld concert | Daily Mail Online
If the claimed one million dollars were singles and were spread around the club's two floors, they would make a "money carpet" at least several layers thick/high, maybe even .4 inches thick/high.
Pix & 10 sec. vid (marked Instagram) show one dollar bills, not even covering the floor in a single layer, as there are big bare spots on floors.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Money Carpet
"... 1,000,000 one dollar bills measures 111,287.5 square feet ... cover an area approximately equal to the size of two football fields."
Money Stack
"... a stack of 100 one dollar bills measures .43 inches.
"... 1,000,000 one dollar bills measures 4,300 inches or 358 feet – about the height of a 30 to 35 story building."
^ Grasping Large Numbers
Click to expand...

no one said TS was there IMO
 
Who went to Strip Club?
LadyL said:
no one said TS was there IMO
Click to expand...
<modsnip - quoted post was removed because it stated info as facts without links>
@LadyL
Yes, you're right. :) Thank you both very much for noticing my boo-boo and posting a correction.
My apologies to anyone who was misled.
 
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