TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #1

[Jax49]

Press conference live: Ten victims are in critical condition.

ETA: Shooter called his father while fleeing. Told father he had been shot and didn't expect to survive.

 

[SCHMAE]

SO HOW DID HE GET THE GUNS? WHO GOT THEM FOR HIM???
Could he still buy them legally after being denied a right to carry permit? NO He knew he wasn't allowed to own a gun, but why didn't the people that sold them to him not know?

This is where the problem lies IMO

The US needs a data base like "no fly" and "registered sex offenders"!!!

"Kelley had applied for and been denied a right-to-carry permit from the state of Texas."

"It was after that that he was able to buy this gun ... so there's ongoing information that needs to be gathered,"

"Abbott said.Among the dead were Joe's 60-year-old son Bryan, who had been preaching at the church, his wife Carla, 58, and Joe's granddaughter-in-law, Crystal Holcombe, who was pregnant. Three of Crystal's children, Emily, Megan and Greg, were also killed. Crystal's unborn child also did not survive."

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/t...alties-reported-texas-church-shooting-n817751

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Private gun sales are totally legal in Texas. Private parties do not have to do back ground checks. There is a due diligence clause but I would imagine it is hard to enforce. I can sell a gun I purchased legally to my neighbor legally with no question and no paperwork. I can also meet a stranger I meet online at the Starbucks and legally sell him a gun with no paperwork. I don't have to ask him if he's got a mental health problem or what he plans to do with the gun. Now if I knew the person was in and out of institutions or knew the person was a parolee not supposed to have a gun, I would have to answer for that. But again that may be hard to enforce. But the seller of a personal gun in a private transaction has every right to do so legally. You are supposed to get a bill of sale that says the new owner 's name and info but they do not have to prove they give you a real name.

ETA This pertains to legally purchased guns with visible serial numbers owned and sold by legal gun owners who are not ' dealers'.
And I have never done any of the above with gun sales myself. Just stating that it's very doable for anyone to ' legally' get a gun and not necessarily inside a gun shop.

 

[enelram]

I am not clear on this point. Did the shooter go to church, thinking or hoping his ex wife, son, and in-laws would be there? He could murder them as well as many other worshippers who he had considered were influential in his marriage woes.

My opinions only

I don't think the Sheriff has said 'Why' the church except to say there was a 'relationship' to the church. I've read that his former MIL was active at that church.

 

[MsFacetious]

All victims have been removed from the church.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

He sent threatening texts to MIL. It was a domestic situation per press conference.

 

[sds71]

Texas official: Authorities have obtained and reviewed video recording from inside the church

 

[MsFacetious]

This was a domestic situation, he had threatened his MIL previously. This was not about religion.

 

[Jax49]

Wore black mask with white skull face...

There are no words at the horror those victims must have felt.

 

[CARIIS]

Have seen some gun owning Texans who claim that 'not giving the right oral answers when questioned by the gun seller'
is enough to be refused a gun sale in Texas. If seller has any doubt that buyer is 'off' in any way, the seller can deny the sale.

Also some former military guys have stated being ousted from USAF for ' Bad Behavior' is different from a Dishonorable discharge. Not the same at all.
MOO

it is the equiv of a felony -- he served a year and was bumped down to the lowest grade

it was a serious offense

if you know how to get the military version of the actual write up of the incident that would be good -- wondering about state of mind behavior during that or the resultant trial our whatever military folks call their versions of these things

is video in church confirmed

victim autopsied

look how far we are along compared to LV

fbi speaking now unlike other fbi agents

three firearms recovered

two handguns from car

glock something and 22

look how far along

dishon dc from army would have resulted in some problem in getting gun ( I remain befuddled at this focus on all of these)

they wanna kill people -- they will get the gun

too many guns IMO all over the land

just a sad reality in our nation

was domestic problems within family

had threatened them via text

not racial

not religious ( not sure I am there yet!)

 

[MsFacetious]

Ballistic vest with a plate on the front. All in black.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I don't even know my neighbours phone numbers to call them...

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And that's part of what I'm saying. We don't know or care about our neighbors anymore. Although I only have one close neighbor, 3 of my neighbors gave me their numbers and stopped by within the first year to introduce themselves. I found another neighbor's number, who is about about a mile away the second year when I saw foxes, because they have chickens and I wanted to let them know of the danger.

This is what I mean, that being less neighborly is a choice we've made in this day and age. From what I can tell, most of the people out my way value their privacy and are not particularly social, but we can be caring without being intrusive or having block parties. When I lived in town, I was also lucky to have (mostly) neighbors who introduced themselves, and even if we did not like each other, we would check on each other at times.

This may seem OT, although I was referring to neighbors hearing shots by the perps house, but I think it's part of the underlying fabric of America at this point, and is one of the reasons why red flags are not seen sooner in a lot of these situations.

The reason I am experiencing the opposite is because my community is less than 400 people, and it's still expected around here to be neighborly.

IDK. MO.

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[TTF14]

his wife was a teacher at a church

his family w described as religious

i found an x gfriend of years ago describing him as very religious interesting

Just visually -- he started shooting AT the church on his walk up to it

that just has meaning for me

moo

BBM. It is very curious. I don't think they can say at this point it was not at all about religion if he was so aggressively targeting the actual church building before massacring the parishioners.

 

[TTF14]

Wore black mask with white skull face...

There are no words at the horror those victims must have felt.

Omg, especially the children .

 

[Jax49]

Youngest deceased - 18 months...

 

[sds71]

DPS just said that the victims that were killed inside the church were as young as 18 months old

 

[MsFacetious]

It's too windy to hear half of the questions.
Not terrorist incident.

Dead range from 18 months - 77 years.
Those being treated range from 5-72 years.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

On MSNBC cable news they just reported that one of DKs ex girlfriends said he was very religious, a stalker and an abuser.

Yup. We have no real proof that he even liked the atheist pages since his profile was taken down. That information may have come from the same kind of people who claimed he was antifa. What we do know is that he did teach Bible school.

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[DatelineFan]

Wore black mask with white skull face...

There are no words at the horror those victims must have felt.

This is chilling. Oh my goodness.

Thanks to you and others who are updating on the presser!

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[gitana1]

Not racially or religiously motivated. It was a domestic situation. He had sent threatening texts to the inlaws.

If you want to help, pray for the families or help financially. Two bank accounts set up. One with Wells Fargo. Can't recall the next

Pastor ended the news conference with a prayer.

Crying.

Wore black mask with white skull face...

There are no words at the horror those victims must have felt.

Oh my God.

 

[MsFacetious]

Did I miss a question about whether his own family was safe?
Did I miss a question about them talking to the wife?
Please tell me the reporters didn't fail to ask those questions....