GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #13

[Backwoods]

I posted the original comment about TH blurting, which is a common feature of ADHD. I was in NO WAY connecting ADHD or anything on the autism spectrum with a life of crime. My son has pretty severe ADHD and I have ADD. Neither of us are criminals, and my son is the sweetest kid you'll ever meet. However, it had been mentioned that TH was ADHD/hyperactive and I was just noting that he seems to exhibit the blurting component. Obviously a lot more going on than ADHD to make him what he is. To all of you with young children diagnosed with ADHD, autism, Asperger's, etc. take heart. There is so much better understanding of these things now than when my son was diagnosed (he's 23 now). You may run into people--teachers, etc.--who should know better who give you bad advice or are dismissive of your child. Ignore them and keep digging until you get your child what he/she needs. You are your child's best advocate. It takes perseverance and courage, but you can do it.

Thank you, Midwestmama, for confirming that the line of conversation between you and me that the OP put a spotlight on no way, no how connected ADHD with criminal tendencies.

Although I replied to the OP's post pointing that out, I have still been smarting from the implication -- thinking, well, wow, great, now everybody who hits that first post, with my earlier, innocuous post (which did not even address ADHD except to say that I did not think blurting was limited to ADHD, much less mention rape or murder) quoted as the jump-off spot -- well, they're going to be thinking "What in the world awful, horrendous thing did Backwoods SAY...?"

I know it's silly for me to have let it keep worrying me, but hey, I can be hypersensitive that way sometimes.

So thank you for clarifying the nature of our posts a little further! :seeya:

 

[Backwoods]

Great post!
Your daughter working with the civilly committed SO's....the ones who had horror stories about horrible emotional abuse as children......were the majority of them in there for rape or rape of a minor?
Not that rape isnt an awful offense to commit against anybody. I had just thought that child molesters were usually victims themselves of having been molested as a child. So I'm just trying to get some clarity.
tia

kkdj, your post wasn't directed at me, but I wanted to comment anyhow:

Just the other evening, I was reading a report about a study done, some time ago I think -- can't remember for sure whether the interviewees were rapists or rapists who also murdered (and I KNOW it was not child-victim-only rapists). The interesting part was that, when asked if they were sexually abused as children, a high percentage of them answered no ... but then, further into the interviews, many of them described experiences from their childhoods that definitely would fall under the category of sexual abuse.

So -- were they just lying? Is denying that they were sexually abused part of the "shame" of sexual abuse? Or did they truly not consider what happened to them to be abuse?

Just found it interesting...

 

[Backwoods]

Studies I've read of polygraphed sex offenders indicate the number that actually suffered sexual abuse as children is significantly lower than once believed. I can't recall the actual stats right now. I'll look for the study later. What was interesting... The ones that did suffer sexual abuse tended to lie about it and claim it didn't happen... And the ones that weren't abused as children lied and claimed they were as a means of manipulation.

It's a "F'd" up bunch for sure!!!

Sounds like we read similar studies!

The thing is -- bbm: If they were all lying all over the place, how did the researchers determine "the truth" about which had been sexually abused and which had not?? :waitasec:

 

[Backwoods]

I know of one person who has confessed this type of attraction to children. He is seeking counseling and it is very difficult to find.

Is there help for this when someone really is afraid of their own thoughts?

And, just to complicate the issue further: What about POCD, the form of OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) that involves worry/fear that one might be a pedophile.

Here's one link with some discussion:

POCD vs. Pedophilia
...Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children and prefer children over age-appropriate partners. Many refuse to acknowledge that it is harmful to children and justify acting on their preference. In POCD, on the other hand, the focus is on the OCD. People with POCD are afraid they might be attracted to children, know that it is both illegal and harmful, and check and double check their own thinking to make sure they aren’t pedophiles. ...

more at: http://psychcentral.com/ask-the-therapist/2011/01/20/pocd-vs-pedophilia/

 

[kkdj]

I believe child support is for the child?

We do not know why she did not ask for support before. Maybe he flew under the radar. No job so he could not be traced . Maybe he had other issues. We do not know.

My husband had a business and he often had to take child support out of guy's paychecks. Oh how they would whine. They were not happy about giving money to the women. Um. It is for the child, housing, food , clothing , etc.

Maybe mom was uncertain about paternity.
We dont know the history do we? Maybe she had been collecting child support from someone else and it was discovered he wasnt the bio dad.
I dont know. ....just throwing out some options for the timing of seeking this child support.

 

[kkdj]

I would like to know, from all of what we know, why she did not know what was going on in her home? As far as we know she lived there too.

Maybe she did know......
we dont know her own mental health condition. Im not trying to sleuth her, but we just know nothing about her.
maybe TH abused her, maybe she has drug problems, mental health issues, etc. We just dont know.
but being completely in the dark about her son doesnt seem probable to me.
jmo

 

[Dr. Know?]

I'm going to say, jmo, that it's not good to wish someone dead or hope they die in my op from my upbringing. That doesn't get to the answers. I won't wish someone who is charged with a crime to live either, but I won't wish them to die. Not my job man. Formalize the arrest, heck yes. I will back the jurors or whoever in a crime like this. Hard to think about. A dumb useless teen to a murderer and rapist. gar...''

I have no sympathy for TH. none. I'm trying though. None so far.

 

[LDhummingbird]

I have wondered about these items from the SW:

# 8 Purple/Pink/Green Timex Indigo Watch with purple band/Pink & Green Flowers
# 116 pink shirt long sleeve
# 143 small pink sock
# 153 1 pair boy's denim pants

Could these have been Alanna's clothes?

IIRC LD said that she was wearing a pink shirt. Her socks could have matched (small pink sock)! The boy's denim pants could have been jeans that she was wearing.

LD Hummingbird...Do you remember if Alanna had on long sleeves and long pants? Wasn't the weather chillier that normal that day?

Also do you think the watch was hers?

Dear God...Please Bless the Family & Friends of Your Angel Alanna!

She was wearing a pink shirt, but I thought it was short sleeved, with shorts. I can confirm the watch was hers.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Maybe she did know......
we dont know her own mental health condition. Im not trying to sleuth her, but we just know nothing about her.
maybe TH abused her, maybe she has drug problems, mental health issues, etc. We just dont know.
but being completely in the dark about her son doesnt seem probable to me.
jmo

If you aren't there, you don't know. He was 17. She may have lived somewhere else ? All legal as he os 17. (refrained remarks)

I'm not use to this 17 legal age stuff. Not opposed, I guess, just need to read more about it.

Thank you!

 

[CHERIE.T]

And, just to complicate the issue further: What about POCD, the form of OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) that involves worry/fear that one might be a pedophile.

Here's one link with some discussion:



more at: http://psychcentral.com/ask-the-therapist/2011/01/20/pocd-vs-pedophilia/

From the above link.

. ...Pedophiles are sexually attracted to children.

THIS very thing was stated Friday night and was negated over and over again. Some saying pedophilia was not about sexual attraction to children but was a power thing.

Thank you Backwoods for the linked article. :moo:

 

[Ellmau]

I don't think we know enough about the GG/KH relationship to understand why she didn't claim child support earlier. Maybe he was already married, or moved away with no forwarding address before she knew herself?

 

[Backwoods]

I don't think we know enough about the GG/KH relationship to understand why she didn't claim child support earlier. Maybe he was already married, or moved away with no forwarding address before she knew herself?

:wagon:


Welcome, Ellmau, to Websleuths!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think we know enough about the GG/KH relationship to understand why she didn't claim child support earlier. Maybe he was already married, or moved away with no forwarding address before she knew herself?

She wouldn't have to know all of these things I don't think. That is why people go to the Child Support Recovery to assist them in finding the other parent. If she was close enough to have a child with him when they were teens then she probably knew enough information about him to open the file.

She would know his full name and even maybe where he was born. Possible BD too. Name of parents or siblings perhaps. The CSR find those who are suppose to be paying child support no matter what part of the country they may have moved to.

I don't have a problem with asking him to pay child support and he doesn't seem to have a problem with it either but to wait for this many years where he would owe such a large amount of money right from the get go is unfair, imo. It can seriously harm someone's credit rating even if they pay their other accounts on time. Not only is that unfair but he lost valuable time he can never get back. She should have at least told him he was a father when Tyler was born.

BUT I imagine this is really what happened and it was because she had been receiving state assistance from the state for years in raising Tyler and it was CSR that found GG on their own and wanted him to pay the money back to the state since they assisted her because of Tyler and then wanted him to start paying child support currently once he knew.

I don't think the back child support is going to KH. The current support is forwarded to her. The back amount owed will go back to the State to recover funds they have forked out over the years while assisting a single mother.

So in fairness..... KH may not have initiated the child support after all.

IMO

 

[SCHMAE]

I wonder if the bio dad had a dna test done at the time the SAPCR came up . Does anyone know ? If not, I'd be demanding one now. I think it was said that he did but I can't remember. Imagine that guy's mental state right now. I would definitely want dna to confirm this nightmare is true or to be able to walk away from it and have nothing else to do with it. I'm sure he got one though, after 15 yrs it is probably standard.

 

[Flutterby80]

She wouldn't have to know all of these things I don't think. That is why people go to the Child Support Recovery to assist them in finding the other parent. If she was close enough to have a child with him when they were teens then she probably knew enough information about him to open the file.

She would know his full name and even maybe where he was born. Possible BD too. Name of parents or siblings perhaps. The CSR find those who are suppose to be paying child support no matter what part of the country they may have moved to.

I don't have a problem with asking him to pay child support and he doesn't seem to have a problem with it either but to wait for this many years where he would owe such a large amount of money right from the get go is unfair, imo. It can seriously harm someone's credit rating even if they pay their other accounts on time. Not only is that unfair but he lost valuable time he can never get back. She should have at least told him he was a father when Tyler was born.

BUT I imagine this is really what happened and it was because she had been receiving state assistance from the state for years in raising Tyler and it was CSR that found GG on their own and wanted him to pay the money back to the state since they assisted her because of Tyler and then wanted him to start paying child support currently once he knew.

I don't think the back child support is going to KH. The current support is forwarded to her. The back amount owed will go back to the State to recover funds they have forked out over the years while assisting a single mother.

So in fairness..... KH may not have initiated the child support after all.

IMO

Good point and you could very well be right. The state, in MI anyway, sometimes takes years to begin collecting from the fathers.

 

[bessie]

I wonder if the bio dad had a dna test done at the time the SAPCR came up . Does anyone know ? If not, I'd be demanding one now. I think it was said that he did but I can't remember. Imagine that guy's mental state right now. I would definitely want dna to confirm this nightmare is true or to be able to walk away from it and have nothing else to do with it. I'm sure he got one though, after 15 yrs it is probably standard.

GG, who lives in Montana, asked for officials’ help in making sure that Tyler was his son.

“On another note to everyone involved, if the facts on this show that it is my child, I will do everything that I can to be part of his life and to keep things right whatever they may be,” Geisen wrote.

Paternity tests indicated that Geisen was almost certainly Holder’s father. It is unclear, however, whether Geisen ever established a relationship with him. Geisen did not respond to messages seeking comment Tuesday or Wednesday."

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/24/5026216/saginaw-suspects-grandparents.html

[url="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217613"]TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw **Who's Who and Case Docs** NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/url]
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[claudicici]

From the above link.



THIS very thing was stated Friday night and was negated over and over again. Some saying pedophilia was not about sexual attraction to children but was a power thing.

Thank you Backwoods for the linked article. :moo:

I did not read all the posts but I don't think anyone said pedophilia is not about sexual attraction to children.Rape is not about sexual attraction.Not everyone who rapes a child is a pedophile,I think TH is in that category.I think pedophiles often end up murdering the child so they would not get caught but I think in TH's sick twisted mind the murdering was part of the fulfillment of his disgusting fantasies IMO :banghead:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I did not read all the posts but I don't think anyone said pedophilia is not about sexual attraction to children.Rape is not about sexual attraction.Not everyone who rapes a child is a pedophile,I think TH is in that category.I think pedophiles often end up murdering the child so they would not get caught but I think in TH's sick twisted mind the murdering was part of the fulfillment of his disgusting fantasies IMO :banghead:

I think Tyler's known actions in this case, point away from him being a pedophile and more towards being a sadistic rapist.

 

[Midwestmama78]

I did not read all the posts but I don't think anyone said pedophilia is not about sexual attraction to children.Rape is not about sexual attraction.Not everyone who rapes a child is a pedophile,I think TH is in that category.I think pedophiles often end up murdering the child so they would not get caught but I think in TH's sick twisted mind the murdering was part of the fulfillment of his disgusting fantasies IMO :banghead:

Thankfully, TH won't be able now to develop fully into what he might have become, given time and opportunity. What he is is certainly bad enough.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Sounds like we read similar studies!

The thing is -- bbm: If they were all lying all over the place, how did the researchers determine "the truth" about which had been sexually abused and which had not?? :waitasec:

Polygraph