TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[newtv]

No matter what she is, she isn't dead and in the ground but those children are. If she's mentally ill then I hope she gets the help she needs. It wont ever be enough though b/c when she regains sanity she will have to think about what she did for the rest of her life and that will probably make her insane all over again.

actually u are right-she will be haunted by this forever-already is and has been-has been on suicide watch for the most part of every day..rusty talked about this many times.
I will actually go so far as to say she will attempt suicide with less supervision-which I am not sure will happen=-she may be just as tightly supervised in the hospital.
I do not dispute the crimes-I simply believe she was in a place that noone would ever want to go and not a cold calculated killer.
I can even understand her just wanting the police to come and not having to explain it-there was no explanation..she was in a psychotic state-and post partum on top of it..there is more to some things than those without mental illness awareness can see.

 

[newtv]

Yes. She'll be in a mental hospital, the only thing undecided is which one. I'm not sure the prision mental hospital was someplace I'd ever want to have to set foot, but since she has absolutely no money, she'll end up in a state run mental facility. To me, that sounds like hell on earth - FAR WORSE than prison, IMO.

I agree-she might be freer in some ways in a mental hospital-i think u might get a bigger room and maybe allowed to participate in a games room type setting-it might be less tightly secured if she is well - they still lockdown people if they go off the rails..yada
But i would be terrified to be around seriously mentally ill people because they are scary.
But it is the right place for the mentally ill is all-prison is filled with untreated mentally ill people..not all or the majority-but it is inhumane to have a mentally ill patient left untreated-thats how she ended up killing those children.
I dont think she will ever come and go in a way that freedom allows..she is shackled ot her murders and she will never have peace.
Its just a differnt place to be incarcerated.

 

[calus_3]

I agree.

Me too.....

Give Teddie a bottle of Gentleman jack and fire up the Olds.......come on Teddy here's your chance to help society.

She knew what she was doing...she didn't want to admit it on tape of the 9/11 call because then it would be evidence against her. She may have been depressed and stressed...heck we all have. But she knew what she was doing.

My wife got terrible PPD and was nothing more than a loving mom. Now twice she tried to drown ME but that's another story for another time. Never once did she ever think about this.

I just don't buy it.....snap and kill a crying kid is one thing. Drown them all....no way.

Cal

 

[newtv]

Idaho Mom - During the first trial of Andrea Yates, I felt the same as you...that she deserved prison for what she did. She committed the most reprehensible crime.

After my anger subsided, and I thought it over and read various things about Andrea and her past, I changed my mind.

I don't want her ever to live in a free society again, but I think if anyone fits into the "insanity defense", it is Andrea Yates. If she isn't insane, I don't know who is.

IMO

she is not safe to herself in a free society and everyone knows it (the people representing her)..I dont think she is at risk to kill again unless we are lucky enuf to have her come to terms with her ex-he deserves a lot of blame imo..I suppose she could try to kill him but he is bigger and i cant see it happening.
I believe andrea will kill herself if in a free society-and therefore she will never be in one again.
She is at risk of killing herself everyday now.
But the treatment may mitigate that if they watch her clsoely.
There are not that many women or killers who deserve to be called insane but she is one of them imo.
However, for htose who are taking te opposite opinion I can understand it-its not easy to be compassionate toward anyone who has killed 5 children..the first reaction is not to understand it except to call it evil.
I dont think she is evil
scott peterson is evil
there is a big difference between evil and mentally ill.

 

[Only4Justice]

Hi All,

This case was the motivator behind my interest in true crime.

I am somewhat unsettled hearing that Andrea has been released from prison. Although I firmly believe she is mentally ill, I also believe she needs to be held accountable for the horrible senseless crimes she committed.

Although she even looks mentally ill to me (her eyes look kind of wild, IMO)....To see her free out in the sunshine outside the courthouse is not setting well with me.

I do agree with you, Jeana, if anyone fits the description of mentally ill, it is this woman. I have read alot about her case, and her condition before the murders. She was crying out for help, but no one picked up on it, or didn't want to be bothered.

I do believe she lives in a prison in her mind....if she comes back to reality she has to look squarely at what she did to her own children, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

_______________________________________

The above is my opinion only and I AM entitled to have one!

I posted this on the other thread discussing this same issue...here is the link http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=959166#post959166

 

[IdahoMom]

Me too.....

Give Teddie a bottle of Gentleman jack and fire up the Olds.......come on Teddy here's your chance to help society.

She knew what she was doing...she didn't want to admit it on tape of the 9/11 call because then it would be evidence against her. She may have been depressed and stressed...heck we all have. But she knew what she was doing.

My wife got terrible PPD and was nothing more than a loving mom. Now twice she tried to drown ME but that's another story for another time. Never once did she ever think about this.

I just don't buy it.....snap and kill a crying kid is one thing. Drown them all....no way.

Cal

What did it for me regarding her is this:

Andrea, about Noah's last moments, from CourtTV:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/2.html

When Andrea was finished with Mary, she left her floating in the water and called to her oldest son, Noah.
He came right away. "What happened to Mary?" he asked. Then apparently realizing what his mother was doing, he ran from the bathroom but Andrea chased him down and dragged him back to the tub. She forced him in face down and drowned him right next to Mary. She admitted in her confession that he had put up the biggest struggle of all. At times he managed to slip from her grasp and get some air, but she always managed to push him back down. His last words were, "I'm sorry." She left him there floating in a tub full of feces, urine and vomit, where police found him.

:furious: :furious: :furious:
:furious: :furious: :furious:

 

[newtv]

What did it for me regarding her is this:

Andrea, about Noah's last moments, from CourtTV:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/2.html

When Andrea was finished with Mary, she left her floating in the water and called to her oldest son, Noah.
He came right away. "What happened to Mary?" he asked. Then apparently realizing what his mother was doing, he ran from the bathroom but Andrea chased him down and dragged him back to the tub. She forced him in face down and drowned him right next to Mary. She admitted in her confession that he had put up the biggest struggle of all. At times he managed to slip from her grasp and get some air, but she always managed to push him back down. His last words were, "I'm sorry." She left him there floating in a tub full of feces, urine and vomit, where police found him.

:furious: :furious: :furious:
:furious: :furious: :furious:

I hear u- but if the voices in your head have given u the mission to save your children from the devil by murdering them so they can be with god and their mother then u do that with all force-she thot she was doing them the greatest kindness..so she would have chased him and made sure he was saved too (in her mind)..had she not killed him-sent him to god she would not have been a good mother..
So to see that out of the context of what the rest of the story is is unfair..(human but infair).
The kindess thing she could have done for herself was to kill herself to but in that state she was the devil and did not qualify as a candidate for heavan..her children needed to go to a safe place.
In a way this makes sense-she knew they should fear her-its the psychotics language
that tells us this.
I know it is hard to come to terms with-i just dont see it as simple black and white thinking where she is concerned.
Andrea wont live a long life-there is a good chance that she will find her way to death at some point in time.
She will be well when she does this..based on following meds etc.

 

[newtv]

Hi All,

This case was the motivator behind my interest in true crime.

I am somewhat unsettled hearing that Andrea has been released from prison. Although I firmly believe she is mentally ill, I also believe she needs to be held accountable for the horrible senseless crimes she committed.

Although she even looks mentally ill to me (her eyes look kind of wild, IMO)....To see her free out in the sunshine outside the courthouse is not setting well with me.

I do agree with you, Jeana, if anyone fits the description of mentally ill, it is this woman. I have read alot about her case, and her condition before the murders. She was crying out for help, but no one picked up on it, or didn't want to be bothered.

I do believe she lives in a prison in her mind....if she comes back to reality she has to look squarely at what she did to her own children, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

_______________________________________

The above is my opinion only and I AM entitled to have one!

I posted this on the other thread discussing this same issue...here is the link http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=959166#post959166

I dont think she will bask in the sunshine..that is incidental/coincidental to the release-sun shines and she cant not have it shine on her..in prison it shines on them if they are in the exercise yeard.
I am not debating your post-I hear the compassion in it-just thinking the sun can shine on us but if youur soul is filled with self recrimination and so on- that sun doesnt feel like a trip to club med would.
again just a comment-not an argument-your post is very well put,

 

[NewMom2003]

I think Andrea Yates is the epitome of legal insanity. If there are to be any laws allowing for the recognition of insanity as a defense, they should apply in her case.

I agree with those who believe a mental hospital is the correct place for Andrea Yates to be incarcerated.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Maybe So]

Ted Bundy was certainly not mentally ill. In fact, he was quite smart. Unfortunately, he was evil as well.

Being smart doesn't mean he didn't suffer a mental illness. I am quite sure that all serial killers suffer some form of mental illness or another. Pedophilia, sadism, even alcholic wife beaters all suffer from some sort of mental illness. Perhaps not all are as severe as Andrea Yates...but still I agree with the person who said anyone who kills their own child (or anyone else for that matter) is not right in the head (unless in self defense/accident etc)..... so should everyone just get treatment for their underlying mental problems instead of any punishment for their heinous crime? I think not.

She was so depressed she couldn't function but she could plan and carry out this murder of her 5 children and call 911. I think she could have called 911 FIRST and asked for help to save her children...I think she was capable of that but did not do it.

 

[Maybe So]

She has been released on bail - TO A MENTAL FACILITY. I doubt she will ever be released back into society. She needs to be where she will receive help for her illness.

Just wait and see. After a year or so of being in the mental institution the attorney try to get her out altogether. This is just a step in the direction of her eventual release. They know her crime is too heinous to be overlooked entirely so they are trying to get her into a mental institution first. After that I bet she will eventually try to get herself released to a half way house and then released altogether. Sort of easing her way out slowly....

They have mental facilities in prison...I think that is where she belongs. There are people in prison who have done far less.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Me too.....

Give Teddie a bottle of Gentleman jack and fire up the Olds.......come on Teddy here's your chance to help society.

She knew what she was doing...she didn't want to admit it on tape of the 9/11 call because then it would be evidence against her. She may have been depressed and stressed...heck we all have. But she knew what she was doing.

My wife got terrible PPD and was nothing more than a loving mom. Now twice she tried to drown ME but that's another story for another time. Never once did she ever think about this.

I just don't buy it.....snap and kill a crying kid is one thing. Drown them all....no way.

Cal

Yes, she knew what she was doing-that's never been in dispute. She knew it was wrong, and knew to call 911 after it was done. But she was driven by forces that were somewhere deep within her sick mind. She had been getting worse and worse and worse, not eating, not bathing. She had been told not to have any more children before Mary was born yet they went ahead and had another baby which finally just pushed her over the edge. I can't help but wonder also if the 24/7 presence of all of the kids pushed her further along in her illness-that would be difficult on those of us in "perfect" mental health. She's not a monster. She is a mentally sick woman who when not delusional will have to live with what she's done for the rest of her life. That in and of itself I cannot even begin to fathom how she will deal with. This is a tragic, horrendous case, beyond comprehsnsion how these five beautiful babies died. But I can't feel anything other than sympathy and empathy for Andrea.

 

[calus_3]

What did it for me regarding her is this:

Andrea, about Noah's last moments, from CourtTV:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/2.html

When Andrea was finished with Mary, she left her floating in the water and called to her oldest son, Noah.
He came right away. "What happened to Mary?" he asked. Then apparently realizing what his mother was doing, he ran from the bathroom but Andrea chased him down and dragged him back to the tub. She forced him in face down and drowned him right next to Mary. She admitted in her confession that he had put up the biggest struggle of all. At times he managed to slip from her grasp and get some air, but she always managed to push him back down. His last words were, "I'm sorry." She left him there floating in a tub full of feces, urine and vomit, where police found him.

:furious: :furious: :furious:
:furious: :furious: :furious:

Exactly...my God how could anyone do this to a child.

Mentally ill or just plain evil.....I say goodnight, turn out the lights when you leave.

Cal

 

[NewMom2003]

Yes, she knew what she was doing-that's never been in dispute. She knew it was wrong, and knew to call 911 after it was done. But she was driven by forces that were somewhere deep within her sick mind. She had been getting worse and worse and worse, not eating, not bathing. She had been told not to have any more children before Mary was born yet they went ahead and had another baby which finally just pushed her over the edge. I can't help but wonder also if the 24/7 presence of all of the kids pushed her further along in her illness-that would be difficult on those of us in "perfect" mental health. She's not a monster. She is a mentally sick woman who when not delusional will have to live with what she's done for the rest of her life. That in and of itself I cannot even begin to fathom how she will deal with. This is a tragic, horrendous case, beyond comprehsnsion how these five beautiful babies died. But I can't feel anything other than sympathy and empathy for Andrea.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[cinsbythesea]

Exactly...my God how could anyone do this to a child.

Mentally ill or just plain evil.....I say goodnight, turn out the lights when you leave.

Cal

Well the first jury agreed with you. Hopefully the second jury will have some compassion in their souls for a truly mentally ill person and put her in a hospital where she belongs, where she can get the care and medications she needs.

 

[newtv]

Originally Posted by cinsbythesea
Yes, she knew what she was doing-that's never been in dispute. She knew it was wrong, and knew to call 911 after it was done. But she was driven by forces that were somewhere deep within her sick mind. She had been getting worse and worse and worse, not eating, not bathing. She had been told not to have any more children before Mary was born yet they went ahead and had another baby which finally just pushed her over the edge. I can't help but wonder also if the 24/7 presence of all of the kids pushed her further along in her illness-that would be difficult on those of us in "perfect" mental health. She's not a monster. She is a mentally sick woman who when not delusional will have to live with what she's done for the rest of her life. That in and of itself I cannot even begin to fathom how she will deal with. This is a tragic, horrendous case, beyond comprehsnsion how these five beautiful babies died. But I can't feel anything other than sympathy and empathy for Andrea-------
-------

agreed
and for those who say turn the lights out-the lights are out..

 

[Sally]

:laugh:

Me too.....

Give Teddie a bottle of Gentleman jack and fire up the Olds.......come on Teddy here's your chance to help society.

She knew what she was doing...she didn't want to admit it on tape of the 9/11 call because then it would be evidence against her. She may have been depressed and stressed...heck we all have. But she knew what she was doing.

My wife got terrible PPD and was nothing more than a loving mom. Now twice she tried to drown ME but that's another story for another time. Never once did she ever think about this.

I just don't buy it.....snap and kill a crying kid is one thing. Drown them all....no way.

Cal

Your killing me Calus.

I agree this woman is out to lunch, But I have one question for those who claim insanity to the point of not knowing what she was doing;IF she had voices in her head so strong that she actually chased down her babies to drown them one by one, HOW in the heck did she suddenly become cognitive enough to now call 911? This was nothing less than premeditated murder but for what it's worth I think any body that could purposely take a life has mental illness.

 

[cinsbythesea]

:laugh:
Your killing me Calus.

I agree this woman is out to lunch, But I have one question for those who claim insanity to the point of not knowing what she was doing;IF she had voices in her head so strong that she actually chased down her babies to drown them one by one, HOW in the heck did she suddenly become cognitive enough to now call 911? This was nothing less than premeditated murder but for what it's worth I think any body that could purposely take a life has mental illness.

She was powerless to stop herself. She was completely driven by forces/voices from within her sick mind. She couldn't stop until the deed was done. As I recall, she felt she was saving the children by doing what she did. Once it was done and the children were "saved" then she made the 911 call.

 

[calus_3]

Well the first jury agreed with you. Hopefully the second jury will have some compassion in their souls for a truly mentally ill person and put her in a hospital where she belongs, where she can get the care and medications she needs.

Absoultely, I think we need to give her the exact medications she needs......
Sodium Pentothal, Pavulon, and lastly Potassium chloride. Except I say we reverse them and shout her kid's names over and over while she dies!

I don't care what the pschobabble doctors say about this woman. Regardless of whether she is evil or mentally insane, it doesn't release her from the responsibility of what she did. Assuming she was hearing voices, etc. she should have gotten help and if she felt like harming the kids, she should have checked into a hospital. People don't go from playing Gin with the gals to drowning their kids one by one overnight.

Oh and the husband needs a good swift kick in the a$$ too!

Cal

 

[NewMom2003]

Oh and the husband needs a good swift kick in the a$$ too!

Cal

That's the one thing I can agree with you about.