TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[Jeana (DP)]

The problem is the wording. Yes, she knew the difference between right and wrong. In more "enlightened" states, the wording is more along the lines of "was the mental illness of the defendant the DECIDING FACTOR in the cime." In other words, would the crime have occurred had the defendant NOT been mentally ill. In this case, of course not. Don't get bogged down by legal terms. If Andrea wasn't mentally ill or had she received adequate treatment, those children would still be alive.

 

[j2mirish]

Absoultely, I think we need to give her the exact medications she needs......
Sodium Pentothal, Pavulon, and lastly Potassium chloride. Except I say we reverse them and shout her kid's names over and over while she dies!

I don't care what the pschobabble doctors say about this woman. Regardless of whether she is evil or mentally insane, it doesn't release her from the responsibility of what she did. Assuming she was hearing voices, etc. she should have gotten help and if she felt like harming the kids, she should have checked into a hospital. People don't go from playing Gin with the gals to drowning their kids one by one overnight.

Oh and the husband needs a good swift kick in the a$$ too!

Cal

I have felt from the start of him being interviewed. and the family story being told, that he in fact is more guilty than she is--
I compare his "liability" in this way, odd as it may sound--
If a bartender serves a patron so much alcohol, and doesnt take away the keys, or call a cab...the drunk driver goes out and kills someone in a car accident-- the bartender and establishment can and often are both held liable--WHY WASNT THE HUSBAND in this case?? MY GOD--we cant even use the old saying " well he isnt a rocket scientist."...cause he is !!!!!!!! This is what burns me the very most of this case--:furious: his a$$ should be in prison--
who else in this world should or could be more knowing of the mind set of this woman...and we all knew he knew....and I'm surprised, he hasnt already "made" more kids--of course with a divorce behind him, that will be the next step :banghead:

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Whoever said that she was insane to the "point of not knowing what she did"??? She's said FROM DAY ONE that she knew she killed them and WHY. If you read her statements, you'd know that.

The hang up is in the wording my friends. You CAN be insane and still know what you're doing. American justice is hung up on the "knowing the difference between right and wrong." That's ridiculous. You can KNOW something is wrong and STILL IN YOUR SICK MIND think that you're protecting your children. Most people cannot even begin to comprehend the level of psychosis that Andrea is/was in and it prevents people from having the ability to distinguish between an excuse and a reason.

True insanity has nothing to do wth right and wrong. It has everything to do with perceived reality. Once you understand the twist in perception, and the logic that drives the psychotic, you can (more or less) follow their "reasoning". And there is more than one type of reality--since "reality" is defined by what the indvidual perceives to be happening--as anyone hwo has watched RASHOMOn can attest.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

i pray your life is never inflicted with a mental illness closeby-u will rethink your theory..mental illness is no picnic and noone prefers it..
If this isnt a clear example of the ignorance in society I dont know what is-she was mentally ill before she did it-not just after..
I will never understand those who are so quick to think they have a clue what mental illness is and how it plays out.

There's mental illness in my family times 10. And I could tell you stories about being chased around the house with knives and having bibles put over our faces while we slept because of evil spirits. And waking up with someone standing over you with scissors ready to stab you to death.

And it's not just schizophrenia, manics, alcoholism, the list goes on in my family, so I feel I can judge and can talk about it.
Plus, I personally suffer from depression to the point I don't want to get out of bed.

But no one in my family - as crazy as we all are - no one killed anyone except my cousin, who killed himself.

She should've killed herself, not her kids. If Andrea was REALLY trying to help someone and knew right from wrong, she would've helped those kids by killing herself and leaving them alone.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I think there's something wrong with every single person who kills. Obviously people who kill aren't in their right minds. So, should we just turn all the prisons and jails into mental wards? Free all the convicts and turn them into poor, helpless loonies?

 

[newtv]

newtv....I agree with your posts about Andrea.

When I saw the photo of her leaving the courthouse, that just bothered me, knowing her children will never again see sunshine. I totally agree with you, that Andrea will live in a hell for this life and the next one for what she has done. Mentally Ill, or Not.

Is it true that she could be free if she chooses?

________________________________________________

The above is only my opinion and I AM entitled to have one!

I dont know my dear-I would hate to say NO and then find out she is allowed out-but I dont tnk she is allowed out while awaiting trial-maybe some day if she was much better-I cant see it personally or professionally as this is my profession though I am not practiing currently by choice.
I just know that physical illness is given all the attention and we are still in the middle ages about mental health..mental health is underrated.
If Andrea were ever able to get out I could see it under such circumstances as she has had a lot of treatment-she is slowly released and into either a brother or sisters care ..she would perhaps need to be remarried and I dont know how that would happen..she would need a lot of mitigating circumstances to be declared well euf for release.
But u are right wherever she is, she is inside her own skin and and that is hell on earth..that is something noone with a conscience could do-and i believe she as one, and I believe it is why she was insane and she still is-she is not getting out of jail-they will retry her or bargain but she is still going to pay the price in terms of a level of incarceration.
I just think if she were my sister or friend and this happened I could never agree that it was a cold calculated act of malice..it was a cold calculated act of warped compassion..I think th emistake she made for lack of a better term is in not killing herself too. But she was the devil incarnate and it was her children who were at risk-in a warped way it was a valiant attempt by a mother to rescue her children from herself.
And before anyone pounces on that- I am referring to the mind of a person in a severe psychotic break..if u are a mother u fight valiantly for your children-she did not think right or wrong- she thought she was protecting them.

Anyone who knows me here knows i am no bleeding heart..I am discerning in who I would ever defend but she is one I would stand up for.

 

[newtv]

There's mental illness in my family times 10. And I could tell you stories about being chased around the house with knives and having bibles put over our faces while we slept because of evil spirits. And waking up with someone standing over you with scissors ready to stab you to death.

And it's not just schizophrenia, manics, alcoholism, the list goes on in my family, so I feel I can judge and can talk about it.
Plus, I personally suffer from depression to the point I don't want to get out of bed.

But no one in my family - as crazy as we all are - no one killed anyone except my cousin, who killed himself.

She should've killed herself, not her kids. If Andrea was REALLY trying to help someone and knew right from wrong, she would've helped those kids by killing herself and leaving them alone.

she did not know right from wrong-she was protecting her children-it wasnt a right or wrong matter and that is what is being missed here - imo.
I am sorry you went thru any of the stuff u did but there is much more to it in the particular..and I do not for a sec think she knew right from wrong.
(Or that it was even in her mind-that was not the battle in this womans mind)

 

[PrayersForMaura]

She was profoundly deeply disturbed. She was so far into her own sickness that she most likely could not have stopped herself even if part of her was screaming stop. She's as sick as they come. I've no doubt that if you had the same urges you wouldn't walk out the door and get as far away from those you had a desire to hurt. But you're not ill-you're a rational thinking person. She had lost that. That's what mental illness is. She was deeply, deeply depressed. Thankfully most of us never reach the levels of depression and mental illness that Andrea did. Of course not understanding that level of depression often makes for no compassion for those who have experienced it and done unthinkable things while in the throes of it.

I have been so depressed that no one here could even know my depression.
But would I take someone else's life in my own depression? HELL NO!
I am not that selfish.

Leaving your children to drown in a tub of filth and vomit and feces. Disgusting
:furious:

How can anyone have pity for that and excuse that and then rip apart some of these other murders in these other cases whose crimes are gross but not even as sick and dastardly.

:furious:

Makes me puke just to think about what those kids were forced to stick their tiny little faces into. And all because Andrea was sick and heard voices.


There's no excuse for that. None.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

she did not know right from wrong-she was protecting her children-it wasnt a right or wrong matter and that is what is being missed here - imo.
I am sorry you went thru any of the stuff u did but there is much more to it in the particular..and I do not for a sec think she knew right from wrong.
(Or that it was even in her mind-that was not the battle in this womans mind)

She thinks she was protecting them?
Why didn't she just kill herself is what I wonder.
People who are depressed usually kill themselves, not everyone else.
People who are mentally ill kill themselves.

The only one those kids needed protecting from was her and no one else.

I lived through mental illness of the worse kind and I cannot defend this woman. No way. No one in my family ever tried to kill me. Sure, they may have beat my butt but not to the point where it would've killed me.
I guess I should be thanking them for not abusing me more, is that the case? Because according to much of this board, they would've been justified in just going right ahead and killing me and my family.

 

[newtv]

She thinks she was protecting them?
Why didn't she just kill herself is what I wonder.
People who are depressed usually kill themselves, not everyone else.
People who are mentally ill kill themselves.

The only one those kids needed protecting from was her and no one else.

I lived through mental illness of the worse kind and I cannot defend this woman. No way. No one in my family ever tried to kill me. Sure, they may have beat my butt but not to the point where it would've killed me.
I guess I should be thanking them for not abusing me more, is that the case? Because according to much of this board, they would've been justified in just going right ahead and killing me and my family.

she is not u
she is not me
and that is not true that most kill themselves
that is statistically not true
but my job is not to convince anyone
I just wont partiipate in the black and white aspect of a case that is
filled with complex shades of grey.

Obviously she was more ill than a person who can contain themselves.
if u want to understand the concept of how she thot she was protecting her kids then u will-its there as a fact whether u agree or not-it is a fact of the case.
I just dont get the skewing of details to profess not to have a clue how this may have happened to a good person.

 

[concernedperson]

Most people who are abusive don't suffer from mental illness but personality disorders. You are lucky to be alive as well as I. I still don't know about being OK for the future as the threats are continuing but for now I am OK. These other people have entitlement issues and they are vocal about grandiose ideas. Andrea had none of these syndromes. She was in a dark place and had been for years.

 

[j2mirish]

There's mental illness in my family times 10. And I could tell you stories about being chased around the house with knives and having bibles put over our faces while we slept because of evil spirits. And waking up with someone standing over you with scissors ready to stab you to death.

And it's not just schizophrenia, manics, alcoholism, the list goes on in my family, so I feel I can judge and can talk about it.
Plus, I personally suffer from depression to the point I don't want to get out of bed.

But no one in my family - as crazy as we all are - no one killed anyone except my cousin, who killed himself.

She should've killed herself, not her kids. If Andrea was REALLY trying to help someone and knew right from wrong, she would've helped those kids by killing herself and leaving them alone.

You speak one thing that I always argue, and most people argue against me...right, wrong, nuts....dazed...depressed...you still dont kill your own children...( I keep saying the husband should be in jail-- along with her- ) I do believe she has very serious mental issues that husband just blew off----- but to take the life of 1 child.....maybe...not sure--- but my god- she took the lives of 5 children-- the last she has to hunt down--I apologize to those that might have any understanding of how this could take place.....I just cant comprehend-- even as whacked as I beleive she is/was.... to take 5 kids lives.....WOW... not judging...just have a hard time believing that after the 1st, or 2nd drowing, something didnt snap and say-- damn....shouldnt be doing this-- I think it did- that is why she called 911--people have said she did this because she heard voices, or thought she was doing the right thing to save her children..ok- I would even buy that-- but if she was so crazy-- why after the "deed' was done, did she then call 911? there should have been nothing for her to report, if she in her own mind, had just "saved" her children .

ps...:blowkiss: to you pfm

 

[Socks]

Right. If she had called the grocery store or the library or someplace other than 911..then I would buy it. No, she called 911 and asked for help.

 

[txsvicki]

Most people who are abusive don't suffer from mental illness but personality disorders. You are lucky to be alive as well as I. I still don't know about being OK for the future as the threats are continuing but for now I am OK. These other people have entitlement issues and they are vocal about grandiose ideas. Andrea had none of these syndromes. She was in a dark place and had been for years.

I agree.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Socks, j2m, pfm---if you don't believe she was deeply depressed and in an extreme state of mental disorder to do what she did-why do you think she did this awful thing?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have been so depressed that no one here could even know my depression.
But would I take someone else's life in my own depression? HELL NO!
I am not that selfish.

Leaving your children to drown in a tub of filth and vomit and feces. Disgusting
:furious:

How can anyone have pity for that and excuse that and then rip apart some of these other murders in these other cases whose crimes are gross but not even as sick and dastardly.

:furious:

Makes me puke just to think about what those kids were forced to stick their tiny little faces into. And all because Andrea was sick and heard voices.


There's no excuse for that. None.

My post is not trying to down-play your depression or even my own Bipolar-Disorder. But I think what people need to realize is Andrea is an EXTREMELY sick woman... not only was she depressed but she was having mood swings, she was hallucinating, hearing voices telling her to do things.. bad things. She had been to shrinks asking for help, because as sick as she was, she KNEW she didn't want to live like that- she got on meds and improved a bit until she was taken off of the meds.

Then she got worse then she was before ever going ON the meds. (FYI- Mental illness is a progressive illness) And in the end, they won-- the voices in her head that she tried sooo hard to fight, won. And she knew it.. IMO- I think by the end she may have been in "cohoots" with the voices. Perhaps they were "planning" it together.

I too have a mental illness that for many years controled my life and I know the HELL I lived in from the time I was 12 until I got properly medicated and made the needed life-style changes to go along with medications in my 20's.
I have attempted suicide several times, I have had to place my (at the time) baby in his crib and walk out of the house so that I would not hurt him, I am a "reformed" (4+ yrs.) SI, I had frequent hallucinations, psychosis, delusions.

YET, I cannot even begin to appreciate just how ILL Andrea is/was. She was sicker then me and when I was *IN* *IT*, I thought I was as sick as sick got! But then there is Andrea... and I felt so sad and lost and scared for her, but those poor babies are the ones I had to side with! They did not deserve what their mother did to them.

I do not think this woman deserves the death penalty because of the horror she created. BUT- I do think Andrea has LOST her right to live in society (If I did the same thing I would pray to G*D someone would make sure I was taken off the streets) I think she should be in a locked-down mental hospital for the rest of her days..even if she is "made well" with meds.

 

[OneLostGrl]

that is why she called 911--people have said she did this because she heard voices, or thought she was doing the right thing to save her children..ok- I would even buy that-- but if she was so crazy-- why after the "deed' was done, did she then call 911? there should have been nothing for her to report, if she in her own mind, had just "saved" her children .

I do not claim to know what was going on in the womans mind but my reasoning about the 911 call was so the children could be pronounced dead and could be properly buried so what she "started" could be completed and the babies could go to Heaven.

 

[cinsbythesea]

My post is not trying to down-play your depression or even my own Bipolar-Disorder. But I think what people need to realize is Andrea is an EXTREMELY sick woman... not only was she depressed but she was having mood swings, she was hallucinating, hearing voices telling her to do things.. bad things. She had been to shrinks asking for help, because as sick as she was, she KNEW she didn't want to live like that- she got on meds and improved a bit until she was taken off of the meds.

Then she got worse then she was before ever going ON the meds. (FYI- Mental illness is a progressive illness) And in the end, they won-- the voices in her head that she tried sooo hard to fight, won. And she knew it.. IMO- I think by the end she may have been in "cohoots" with the voices. Perhaps they were "planning" it together.

I too have a mental illness that for many years controled my life and I know the HELL I lived in from the time I was 12 until I got properly medicated and made the needed life-style changes to go along with medications in my 20's.
I have attempted suicide several times, I have had to place my (at the time) baby in his crib and walk out of the house so that I would not hurt him, I am a "reformed" (4+ yrs.) SI, I had frequent hallucinations, psychosis, delusions.

YET, I cannot even begin to appreciate just how ILL Andrea is/was. She was sicker then me and when I was *IN* *IT*, I thought I was as sick as sick got! But then there is Andrea... and I felt so sad and lost and scared for her, but those poor babies are the ones I had to side with! They did not deserve what their mother did to them.

I do not think this woman deserves the death penalty because of the horror she created. BUT- I do think Andrea has LOST her right to live in society (If I did the same thing I would pray to G*D someone would make sure I was taken off the streets) I think she should be in a locked-down mental hospital for the rest of her days..even if she is "made well" with meds.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I applaud you. Your eloquent post put into words what I couldn't. God bless you.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't believe she was powerless to stop herself. I don't beleive she thought she was saving the children from anything either. She is an adult...albeit a sick adult but she is not relieved from picking up the phone and looking for help on her own. If she could dial 911 after they were dead she could have dialed it before they were dead and begged someone to come and stop her. She could have called her doctor or a relative and told them that the urges to kill her children and the voices were getting worse. She could have walked out into the street and jumped in front of a car....anything but kill her children. If I had the urge to kill my children I would walk out the door and get as far away from them as possible. No, she waited for an opportunity to be alone with them...and she did it in a hurry....that took conscious thought on her part.

Mental illness or not any person who can calculatingly hold 5 of their own babies under the water and kill them is inconceivable to me. Even if you flipped out I would think that after seeing the first one dead you would snap out of it and try to stop yourself.

She had already passed that "stage", if you will. She had ALREADY cried out for that help, she had already told people the things going on in her head and NO ONE helped her. A person as sick as she was can only cry out for help for so long before they loose that capacity. She no longer had that option in her so sick mind.

Please do not get me wrong, I think she should be locked up for life but in a locked-down HOSPITAL where she can be medicated and perhaps in the future to try to pay back society for what she did.
Science and technology come from study, let them study her as they do with serial killers so they can maybe better understand SEVERE mental illness.

Forensic Psychiatry is just as important as the studies they do on, say, cancer, AIDS, Heart disease, etc etc.. mental illness is JUST as real and JUST as deadly. It happens TO us-- we do not ASK to have it.

 

[kgeaux]

I do not claim to know what was going on in the womans mind but my reasoning about the 911 call was so the children could be pronounced dead and could be properly buried so what she "started" could be completed and the babies could go to Heaven.

I don't know a single christian who believes that a burial is necessary for one to go to heaven.

She IMO called 911 because she KNEW what she did was wrong. IMO, the fact that she refused to tell the 911 operator why she needed the police to come over is because she was ASHAMED to admit what she had done. She is evasive, trying to avoid admitting to this operator what she'd done. I think her voice shows conciousness of guilt, her answers show conciousness of guilt.