TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[j2mirish]

newtv-

i think the last points you made were dead on...!
this is why we should teach our girls to be assertive and say what they want in life... if she felt uncomfortable having so many kids, especially so close together-- she should have said so. but, unfortunately, a lot of religions teach that women should be submissive.. and even after all the women's lib, some folks are going back to the dark ages (women included)... it's a disturbing trend. and, when you mix that with an already unbalanced person- well, then you have this kind of thing happening.

however, i do think it's quite obvious that there's a big difference between this woman and a raging, uncontrollable, psycho murderer or life-long sexual predator. and yet i've seen more hate spewed at her (not on here though)-- even though there's plenty of folks out there who are WAY more deserving of it, IMO!

i don't know the answer... and i think we can all be thankful that we're not her, it's hard to believe that she could ever find peace. the only thing she could do is devote her life to helping others.. she could do a lot of good with her life, since she's stuck with it for a while.

as for rusty- why hate the guy? he's just a simple, hard-working guy who loved his kids and his wife-- he tried to help her, and although she obviously should have used birth control (well, they both should have)-- and maybe been content with 2 or 3 kids... it's not like he's some monster of wife/child abuser. i feel really bad for him, i'm sure he has been through more hell than a lot of us could ever imagine.

your post what great imo until the cmment about Rusty

My God--- hard working guy? she was at home with 5 children...........he knew she was in trouble--- he even had his mom coming over to help out a few hours a day- birth control?he knew she had trouble with depresion after the births of those children---yea he is THE monster in my opinion--I hope my husband never loves me like that-- he should be behind bars:furious:

 

[speedymama]

There's mental illness in my family times 10. And I could tell you stories about being chased around the house with knives and having bibles put over our faces while we slept because of evil spirits. And waking up with someone standing over you with scissors ready to stab you to death.

And it's not just schizophrenia, manics, alcoholism, the list goes on in my family, so I feel I can judge and can talk about it.
Plus, I personally suffer from depression to the point I don't want to get out of bed.

But no one in my family - as crazy as we all are - no one killed anyone except my cousin, who killed himself.

She should've killed herself, not her kids. If Andrea was REALLY trying to help someone and knew right from wrong, she would've helped those kids by killing herself and leaving them alone.

Hope no one minds me jumping in here. But remember when the guard over heard andrea yates telling her physictrist, sorry bad spelling. that she knew what she did was wrong and she was such a monster, she only had to kill the girl cause rusty wanted all boys for a baseball team or basketball team, don't remember exact words but even though the guard reported it, it was much later before the proscuter heard. Yep she knew and I think rusty was guilty too. Her defense came later after she got a lawyer when satin was brought up.

 

[Socks]

I'm new here, but i'm really old around the internet and i only found this site, but i would like to address this:


For one, drugs have nothing to do with abuse. An abuser in an abuser.

I believe this woman was perfectly sane when she commited these acts. If she had been insane than she would have snapped out of it by the time she chased her last child down to drown him.
Also just because people said she was a caring mom doesn't mean she was. Do people really go up to people and say "hey i just beat my kid today?" No because it's illegal.
I'm willing to bet these children were abused by this sick individual their entire lives and this day she murdered them.

I hope she drowns in a pile of vomit.

That's my :twocents:

Amen. :boohoo:

 

[reb]

j2mirish-
right, i see your point.. but my point is that she IS an adult, it was her choice too (to have that many kids). she wasn't an innocent victim, she was not raped at gunpoint and held against her will. the issue is--how much responsibility does a husband bear, for impregnating his wife- who he knows is not mentally well- THAT many times? it was really up to her at the beginning of the marriage to say how many children she wanted, and if he wanted more, than he should have made sure they were in agreement, and if he didn't- then SHE should have made sure he knew how she felt!
it sounds like the problems here again, is that she was brought up to be the passive good little girl, and her religious teachings probably taught her to submit to her husband's wishes. however it's not like he was beating her, cheating on her with crack *advertiser censored* and molesting the kids. i think you all can admit that he WAS a good father and tried to be a good husband, he just had this ideal vision of a big family, which was maybe not realistic for their situation, and i think he had some wishful thinking concerning his wife's illness, that maybe all was well now and they could go back to baby-making. a bit misguided and somewhat neglectful on his part. HOWEVER... if his wife thought she was well enough to have more kids, and maybe is she was quiet about it, he didn't exactly know the extent of what was going on inside her brain, then what was he supposed to think? he can't read her mind. now, her doctor DID warn that she was overwhelmed, not mentally well, & shouldn't have any more kids. ignoring this was his worst mistake.. since maybe by that point she was not able to make a rational decision. and i'm sure the poor guy is well aware of that 1000 times over. i just don't see how this makes him a "monster".

in other words, i think if andrea is a victim of anything, it's her sickness, not her husband.

 

[Rachael]

I also believe that Andrea is a very sick woman (mentally). I do not believe she will ever or should ever be allowed to live in normal society (as I believe she may always be a risk because of her actions). I feel she belongs in a hospital and not in jail. Although I truly believe she was out of her mind when she committed the murders I still could not get over the fact that she had enough of a thought process to plan these murders out. She knew Rusty was leaving for work at a certain time (9 am) and that her MIL would be arriving shortly after Rusty left. Andrea waited for Rusty to leave and killed the children right quickly before her MIL arrived. It also horrifies me thinking of how her oldest son died (she chased him down and fought to drown him) and his final words to his mother (which she repeated to LE). He said "I'm sorry" and that shatters my heart. I can't imagine anything much more sad than that. I know that she was completely out of her mind at the time but I don't understand how she was able to plan this and call Rusty and LE. That part will always puzzle me.

It's such a sad case. I really do not know how Andrea (now that she is in a better state of mind) lives with what happened. I know I could not.

 

[Bobbisangel]

No matter how hard I might try I could have never been able to put into words what you have said. This seems to be such a black and white issue and it isn't. As one other poster pointed out there are "complex shades of gray". I, too, am bi-polar and until you have walked in my shoes you simply can not understand what I have gone through. Mental illness is a serious disease that is quite often mis-diagnosed, misunderstood and, for the most part, overlooked entirely. For those of you that "can't understand" I can say that I appreciate that point of view. You have never "been there". It isn't in your chemistry or genes to even conceive of such things. It is possible for these things to happen and potentially know that they aren't right but because of your state of mind you can't stop them. At the same time you know it's right and you know it's wrong. That is a horrible way to live. In a manic state of bi-polar you may demonstrate sexual promiscuity. You're married and you know it is wrong - but, you can't stop. You may go on excessive shopping sprees yet have no money in your account. Again, you know it's wrong but you can't stop. You may drink alcohol more than normal, you know it's wrong but you can't stop. The list goes on and on and does escalate to suicide and homicide.

I know that those of you that stand in judgement will continue to do so and I can say nothing to help you understand mental illness in a different light. I just wanted to get my thoughts in on this. I do believe that Andrea belongs in a mental facility for life and not behind bars where she would never receive the treatment that she so deperately needs

Bless your heart for speaking out. I guess until a person has had a mental illness, had a family member/friend with a mental illness or worked with mentally ill people they just don't understand what it is all about.

I worked for a long time with mentally ill chemically addicted clients. I basically knew nothing about mental illness before I started working with the clients. I learned a lot from the clients themselves and I loved working with them.

I believe that Andrea is a very sick lady. I too have read how her illness progressed and the times that she tried to get help. I can hardly stand to look at her ex-husband. He knew how very sick she was yet it doesn't seem to me that he did much to help her. I saw him on a show recently and he said that "he was surprised at how much Andrea talked when she called him after she had drowned the children. He said before that she barely said 10 words a day." Shouldn't he have noticed something was wrong during the days before she drowned the children. You have 5 children and your wife is barely speaking 10 words a day. I will say that he doesn't blame Andrea or if he does he doesn't voice it in the media. Instead he admits how sick she is but I have never heard him say that he should have realized how sick she was
I believe he should share in the blame. He lived with Andrea...he had to know how very sick she was.

I'm so glad that Andrea is in a mental hospital. It is no different then being in prison except there are no bars on the windows. She will get treatment for her illness and she will have a life there. Andrea will never be let out...she murdered her 5 children. I think if she were ever to be "cured" if there is such a thing she would commit suicide because she wouldn't be able to live with what she did. Even Rusty said that when Andrea's medication is working she gets very depressed because she realizes what she did. It is just such a sad situation all the way around. She deserves to be locked up for life but not in a prison with bars. I hope they can come to an agreement...attorneys... before the trial starts and Andrea is left right where she is for the rest of her life.

 

[kgeaux]

Hope no one minds me jumping in here. But remember when the guard over heard andrea yates telling her physictrist, sorry bad spelling. that she knew what she did was wrong and she was such a monster, she only had to kill the girl cause rusty wanted all boys for a baseball team or basketball team, don't remember exact words but even though the guard reported it, it was much later before the proscuter heard. Yep she knew and I think rusty was guilty too. Her defense came later after she got a lawyer when satin was brought up.

Thanks for jumping in, speedymama. (Love your screen name!) I do have a vague memory of what you're saying here, not about only killing Mary, but something about Rusty wanting all boys for a basketball team. I can't remember if it was introduced at the trial. I hope someone else with a sharper memory can verify it for us, or set us straight if we're wrong!

Bless your heart for speaking out. I guess until a person has had a mental illness, had a family member/friend with a mental illness or worked with mentally ill people they just don't understand what it is all about.

I worked for a long time with mentally ill chemically addicted clients. I basically knew nothing about mental illness before I started working with the clients. I learned a lot from the clients themselves and I loved working with them.

I believe that Andrea is a very sick lady. I too have read how her illness progressed and the times that she tried to get help. I can hardly stand to look at her ex-husband. He knew how very sick she was yet it doesn't seem to me that he did much to help her. I saw him on a show recently and he said that "he was surprised at how much Andrea talked when she called him after she had drowned the children. He said before that she barely said 10 words a day." Shouldn't he have noticed something was wrong during the days before she drowned the children. You have 5 children and your wife is barely speaking 10 words a day. I will say that he doesn't blame Andrea or if he does he doesn't voice it in the media. Instead he admits how sick she is but I have never heard him say that he should have realized how sick she was
I believe he should share in the blame. He lived with Andrea...he had to know how very sick she was.

I'm so glad that Andrea is in a mental hospital. It is no different then being in prison except there are no bars on the windows. She will get treatment for her illness and she will have a life there. Andrea will never be let out...she murdered her 5 children. I think if she were ever to be "cured" if there is such a thing she would commit suicide because she wouldn't be able to live with what she did. Even Rusty said that when Andrea's medication is working she gets very depressed because she realizes what she did. It is just such a sad situation all the way around. She deserves to be locked up for life but not in a prison with bars. I hope they can come to an agreement...attorneys... before the trial starts and Andrea is left right where she is for the rest of her life.

I am with both of y'all concerning Rusty. To this day I cannot believe he was not held accountable for his part in this. A father is prosecuted if he leaves a loaded gun in his home and a tragedy occurs, and this father left something WAY more dangerous than a loaded gun with his babies.

 

[southernpixie]

I agree regarding Rusty as well. He may not have known when Andrea was first diagnosed but certainly by the time she was as sick as she was he knew that she needed to be cared for 24 hours. If that meant in a facility because he couldn't arrange it otherwise then so be it. To me, just as guilty!

Let's remember that this is a family that had all of those children because that is what Rusty thought God wanted him to do, lived in a trailer because that's what God wanted him to do, gave money (all of their money) to that preacher guy because that's what God wanted him to do, etc......How is that logic on his part?

A poster just a few back said that they had a hard time believing just how sick Andrea was because of how well the murders were planned out. (Sorry if I horribly misquoted you!) That infers that Andrea had logic. Andrea was logic in her mind. That is why she called 911. She was methodical in her killing and yes, she did plan it out. However, as I have said in another post, that was her reality. As she was taking each child one by one to the tub she knew what she was doing was wrong but also felt that is what she was being "told" to do and the children would be better off for it. We will never know HER rationale behind it as she will never get that moment of time back to experience what she was feeling again. What was it then that sent her over the edge? Rusty? The house payment - were they losing the house? Her faith in God - was she upset that she had so many children and couldn't keep up with them? Was it a combination of things?

I applaud the majority of you that could handle the things above without "snapping". Andrea coudn't. I couldn't and there are millions like us that couldn't. Each of us has our triggers, each of us hopefully are own are own combinations of medications, each of us see our own psychiatrists and or psychologist and hopefully have enormous family support systems. Please try and understand that there are many of us in different shades. Some severe, some manageable, some respond well to medication others are untreated, some are monitored closely by their family and doctors and others aren't (like Andrea)

Which brings me to something else. When all this was dianosed for me I was in complete denial because I was on the other side of the fence. I DID NOT believe in not guilty by reason of insanity. I felt that a crazy person knew darn well what they were doing. That's another long story which i'll be happy to share! However, what I was going to say here is when you speak to your psychiatrist YOU HAVE TO BE HONEST! Most symptoms or actions are embarrassing and you tend to leave them out which I am sure Andrea did. To have to say those things out loud (Like, "I can't handle my children") certainly makes you feel like less of a person. Maybe she kept information for her psychiatrist that prevented him/her from trating her properly. I've done it. Did she know it was wrong to do it? Yes, but she did. Did I know it was wrong to do it? Yes, but I did.

:twocents: +++++ more, sorry

 

[OneLostGrl]

I know. Angela was "sane" enough to remember the 911 number. She was "sane" enough to remember Rusty's work number. She was sane enough to chase at least one child down, listen to his pleas for life, listen to the sounds of all 5 of her children struggling to breathe, to live, feel their bodies struggle to live...... I know the woman was sick, sick, sick. But I don't think she meets the criteria for legal insanity. I think she knew exactly what she was doing, I think she realized exactly how wrong what she was doing was. I feel terrible, because I truly believe that Rusty was as responsible as she was and he did not do enough to protect his children. But the buck stops with her, and unfortunately, she just doesn't meet the legal criteria.

Perhaps the "legal" criteria should be changed?

 

[southernpixie]

Perhaps the "legal" criteria should be changed?

Very good point. Perhaps when the term was defined "we" were more easily categorized since "we" were simply deemed "crazy". Now, with so much more known about mental illness and the on-going research it will shed new light on the term. A person is not sane or insane. There must be a process to move from one to the other.

 

[NaNaRosebud]

If she felt she was being told by God to kill her chilren to save them and she knew that it was wrong to do so, then why didn't she ask her preacher if the devil was telling her to kill them or was it God telling her to do so? WHy didn't she question the idea of killing her children to save them?


I believe that there was a lady from one of the bookstores that Andrea frequented to purchase books for homeschooling her children. This lady said that Andrea was just like a normal person. She talked about how sweet the kids were and how Andrea was when she was in her store. I believe that she talked about ANdrea being her store very close to the day that Andrea killed the kids.


I believe that she knew it ws wrong to kill her children and this whole staory of thinking she was saving her children was a ploy from her lawyer to get her out of the death penalty.

And, what is so freakin wrong with bars on the windows of her room? If the only thing different is the bars on the windows, why is it so cruel for her to have bars on her windows while incarcerated.

Personally I wish she had to rot in a prison cell like Susan what'sherface is. They both killed their kids knowing that it was wrong.

DIdn't Andrea know "Thou salt not kill" was one of the 10 Commandents? After all, if she was so religious minded that she was aware of the God telling her to do this horrible thing, wouldn't she question Him going against his commandment to not kill????

It's all a ploy to garner sympathy for her. I hope if they find that she can go to the hospital for the rest of her day that the DA prosecutes her for the other 2 children's death and seeks the death penalty again.

 

[southernpixie]

If she felt she was being told by God to kill her chilren to save them and she knew that it was wrong to do so, then why didn't she ask her preacher if the devil was telling her to kill them or was it God telling her to do so? WHy didn't she question the idea of killing her children to save them?


I believe that there was a lady from one of the bookstores that Andrea frequented to purchase books for homeschooling her children. This lady said that Andrea was just like a normal person. She talked about how sweet the kids were and how Andrea was when she was in her store. I believe that she talked about ANdrea being her store very close to the day that Andrea killed the kids.


I believe that she knew it ws wrong to kill her children and this whole staory of thinking she was saving her children was a ploy from her lawyer to get her out of the death penalty.

And, what is so freakin wrong with bars on the windows of her room? If the only thing different is the bars on the windows, why is it so cruel for her to have bars on her windows while incarcerated.

Personally I wish she had to rot in a prison cell like Susan what'sherface is. They both killed their kids knowing that it was wrong.

DIdn't Andrea know "Thou salt not kill" was one of the 10 Commandents? After all, if she was so religious minded that she was aware of the God telling her to do this horrible thing, wouldn't she question Him going against his commandment to not kill????

It's all a ploy to garner sympathy for her. I hope if they find that she can go to the hospital for the rest of her day that the DA prosecutes her for the other 2 children's death and seeks the death penalty again.

You said in your post "I Believe" and that is exactly what Andrea did. She believed. Maybe it wasn't in something that you, I or Suzy down the street believe in but the same model can be applied to just about every behavior in society. Belief. Along with that belief came an undeniable disease that compounded her reasoning skills beyond what the normal functioning person can understand.

As far as bars on the windows I have no problem with them being on the hospital windows where she is geting treatment for her serious and bonafide illness.

:twocents: +++more

 

[NaNaRosebud]

Was she not being given drugs when she was in prison??? What is the difference? Prison or hospital? She will still be given drugs.


A hopistal would allow her to enjoy tv, movies, reading, walking around visiting with other patients!! I don't think she deserves to be anywhere but in a 8 x 8 cell. I'd prefer she be executed for killing her children, but since she got out of that, I hope she rots!!

I used the words "I believe" because I didn't want to get jumped on by posters who disagree with me. I have my opinion just like you. See my tag line!!

 

[luvbeaches]

its her husband..oh thats right- its ex-husband now, who should have ended up in prison

Boy, that's no joke. What man in his right mind would keep having children when he knew his wife was having mental issues? I pity the next wife. But I'd be willing to bet he'll find one, and he'll have a bunch of kids.

 

[concernedperson]

I saw a couple of interviews on LKL with Rusty. It was like they were ready to announce his sainthood.I hope there is no woman who would actually believe him but I am afraid there are these women.

 

[Lauren]

He makes me sick! He should be neutered!:slap:

 

[OneLostGrl]

If she felt she was being told by God to kill her chilren to save them and she knew that it was wrong to do so, then why didn't she ask her preacher if the devil was telling her to kill them or was it God telling her to do so? WHy didn't she question the idea of killing her children to save them?

I think she probably did question it, at least to herself when it first began.. but as I said in an earlier post, Mental Illness is progressive, and I imagine it progressed past the point of even knowing she *could* question "it".

I believe that there was a lady from one of the bookstores that Andrea frequented to purchase books for homeschooling her children. This lady said that Andrea was just like a normal person. She talked about how sweet the kids were and how Andrea was when she was in her store. I believe that she talked about ANdrea being her store very close to the day that Andrea killed the kids.

normal as in-- driving, buying books for her kids, holding a conversation? Yeah, for the most part, we mentally ill can do these things.

I believe that she knew it ws wrong to kill her children and this whole staory of thinking she was saving her children was a ploy from her lawyer to get her out of the death penalty.

And, what is so freakin wrong with bars on the windows of her room? If the only thing different is the bars on the windows, why is it so cruel for her to have bars on her windows while incarcerated.

In the hospitals for the criminally insane, they have bars on the windows. I seriously doubt they are placing her in just a "normal" psych. ward. She belongs in a hospital for the criminally insane-- locked down unit!

Personally I wish she had to rot in a prison cell like Susan what'sherface is. They both killed their kids knowing that it was wrong..

DIdn't Andrea know "Thou salt not kill" was one of the 10 Commandents? After all, if she was so religious minded that she was aware of the God telling her to do this horrible thing, wouldn't she question Him going against his commandment to not kill????

Her mind was misfiring- she had NO idea how to think clearly at that point.

It's all a ploy to garner sympathy for her. I hope if they find that she can go to the hospital for the rest of her day that the DA prosecutes her for the other 2 children's death and seeks the death penalty again.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Was she not being given drugs when she was in prison??? What is the difference? Prison or hospital? She will still be given drugs.


A hopistal would allow her to enjoy tv, movies, reading, walking around visiting with other patients!! I don't think she deserves to be anywhere but in a 8 x 8 cell. I'd prefer she be executed for killing her children, but since she got out of that, I hope she rots!!

I used the words "I believe" because I didn't want to get jumped on by posters who disagree with me. I have my opinion just like you. See my tag line!!

Sure she gets meds in prison and a 10 min. therapy appointment 1X a month.
The level of care is the difference. In the Hospital there will be therapy several times a day. In fact, She will have to take the groups they place her in. I imagine she'd be in a DBT class and intensive grief counsling- perhaps even a group for parents who have killed their own children.
In prison they offer meds- in a hospital they offer meds and help! and help is what this woman obviously needs.
Trust me, Andrea will not be running around visiting other patients and spending her days in front of the TV

 

[Sherry67]

I don't know if Andrea was "insane" or not. My impresssion of her was that this was a woman who was WAAAAYYYY tooo overburdened. Her husband seems to be someone who just wanted what he wanted and never considered how it was affecting her. For God sake, he should not have allowed her to become pregnant after her 1st break-down.

I think that, sadly, when she killed her kids...it was more like she just couldn't take the stress anymore - and she snapped. I don't know if that makes her insane or not. I think it made her desperate.

A lot of you won't agree with me....but I think she needs intense treatment and to be given a second chance. This woman does not come off as Evil to me - just ill and completely worn down. The people around her should have recognized this and helped her more.

Now if there were allegations of ongoing abuse by her, or drug use,...then I would think completely differently. I just think she couldn't take it anymore and she found the only way that she could relieve herself of stress.

sad situation

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't know if Andrea was "insane" or not. My impresssion of her was that this was a woman who was WAAAAYYYY tooo overburdened. Her husband seems to be someone who just wanted what he wanted and never considered how it was affecting her. For God sake, he should not have allowed her to become pregnant after her 1st break-down.

I think that, sadly, when she killed her kids...it was more like she just couldn't take the stress anymore - and she snapped. I don't know if that makes her insane or not. I think it made her desperate.

A lot of you won't agree with me....but I think she needs intense treatment and to be given a second chance. This woman does not come off as Evil to me - just ill and completely worn down. The people around her should have recognized this and helped her more.

Now if there were allegations of ongoing abuse by her, or drug use,...then I would think completely differently. I just think she couldn't take it anymore and she found the only way that she could relieve herself of stress.

sad situation

I don't agree with the "give her a second chance" thing.
As much as I can say is- I heard many voices telling me to do stuff- bad stuff. And I tried to not listen for 2-3 weeks (ignored the *advertiser censored* in my head)
but eventually you honestly do become part of a team with these voices.
It's sick, I know... but that's the whole point... sickness