GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[YESorNO]

VERDICT WATCH: Amber Guyger Trial Jury Deliberating Since 3:15pm ET

Sep 30, 2019

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The Daily Debrief: Why Is The Judge Allowing The Jury To Couple Two Possible Defenses, Self Defense With Mistake Of Fact?

Sep 30, 2019

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Law Professor Says There Is So Much To Unpack In The #AmberGuyger Case, Like To Show Police Misconduct, etc.

Sep 30, 2019

 

[wary]

Not sure what the note said, but they did ask the judge if they could consider the Castle Doctrine and she granted it to them.

Just double-checking here—did the jury ask if they could consider the Castle Doctrine, or did the defense ask if they could discuss it?

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Reasons why cases are important to some & not to others very. I'm more affected by cases involving betrayal. I put this case in the same category as a drunk driver killing an innocent mother. Sad, but I'm not emotionally affected.

You know what, you are probably right. I bet you that is the same thing amber thinks as well. Sad but not emotionally affected.

 

[gitana1]

Reasons why cases are important to some & not to others vary. I'm more affected by cases involving betrayal. I put this case in the same category as a drunk driver killing an innocent mother. Sad, but I'm not emotionally affected.

Well I guess that's fair. But it is odd to me that some would be more afffected by anger toward a killer than the actual execution of a human being.

I do find that sad.

 

[gitana1]

Just double-checking here—did the jury ask if they could consider the Castle Doctrine, or did the defense ask if they could discuss it?

Yes. Because that's super important. If the jury sent a note asking this I think we are done.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Just double-checking here—did the jury ask if they could consider the Castle Doctrine, or did the defense ask if they could discuss it?

I was a little confused by this as well. Are you referring to the judge allowed it in during the jury discussions that the lawyers wanted or did the jury ask specifically about that, because that is huge.

I’m thinking you just meant the lawyers wanting it and she allowing it correct?

 

[MsFacetious]

I do wonder if the note from the jury may have been about finishing for the night? I know that's not normally what it is, but I think anything else would have to be addressed in court right?

I was a little confused by this as well. Are you referring to the judge allowed it in during the jury discussions that the lawyers wanted or did the jury ask specifically about that, because that is huge.

I’m thinking you just meant the lawyers wanting it and she allowing it correct?

I think that's what is being referred to. I think if it was anything else we'd have heard about it! There was discussion about what would be allowed and what would not. We've had no jury questions that we know of.

 

[VAgirlatheart]

I do wonder if the note from the jury may have been about finishing for the night? I know that's not normally what it is, but I think anything else would have to be addressed in court right?



I think that's what is being referred to. I think if it was anything else we'd have heard about it! There was discussion about what would be allowed and what would not. We've had no jury questions that we know of.

Got it. And I like your thought about that being done for the night, I totally could see that happening, If there was a note and it happening right after.

 

[GMG1999]

Just double-checking here—did the jury ask if they could consider the Castle Doctrine, or did the defense ask if they could discuss it?

I believe the defense asked for it. Here is a link to the story I am reading it from. The legal jargon is confusing to me:

What is Texas' Castle Doctrine and what does it mean in the Amber Guyger case?

 

[Lillymac]

I do wonder if the note from the jury may have been about finishing for the night? I know that's not normally what it is, but I think anything else would have to be addressed in court right?


I think that's what is being referred to. I think if it was anything else we'd have heard about it! There was discussion about what would be allowed and what would not. We've had no jury questions that we know of.

I thought the same. They were letting the judge know they were ready to end the day. Judge probably told them to let her know. jmo

 

[bwt42]

You know what, you are probably right. I bet you that is the same thing amber thinks as well. Sad but not emotionally affected.

Thank you for saying I'm right. I have no idea about how Amber feels.

 

[Betty P]

I’m not trying to be rude, but I’m not sure if you know how much this verdict means to some of us. Some of us live in Texas, Some of us have sons, Some of us have family that are of a different ethnicity. As much as we want to scream that this case has nothing to do with race, it does. Maybe not that she shot him because he was black, I’m sure that wasn’t the case, however, race will play a factor into the decision. It’s about holding the ones accountable that need to be held accountable and case after case we see that black unarmed men don’t get the justice that they deserve. The amount of hatred of amber was brought on by herself. When she failed to give cpr or when she decided to text her boyfriend/bootycall/someone else’s husband, two days after she killed him - then she deserves every amount of hate that she gets.

But while you may forget about the case, some of us, once again will have to worry about if this could ever happen to one of us. Not that it matters, but I’m mixed. I have a white mom and a black dad. Somehow I came out more so on the whiter side so I know first hand about privilege. So it does exist. My husband is also black and I constantly have to worry about his safety. We live in Mesquite - and just a few years ago a black guy was at his own car fixing it when the mesquite police came up and assumed that he was stealing the car, that man got shot in the back on the ground and did nothing wrong. Thankfully the guy survived but guess what, his case resulted in a mistrial. Mesquite is about 12 miles from Downtown Dallas. So while you may never think about this case again, I for one have to worry about if my husband (which works his butt off everyday, just like Botham) is going to be the next victim. So I don’t feel sorry for amber, that’s not my place to worry about feeling sorry for her. I’ll let my lord handle that... but I just wish people would see that what maybe little to some, is a huge deal for others.

I pray the jury gets this one right.

While I can't know how you feel, I share your frustration and fear. Though I live in the northern Midwest, thing's aren't a whole lot better. I can't imagine anyone from our prosecutor's office taking a police officer to trial over a shooting like that of Botham Jean. The murder of Tamir Rice happened in our area and our prosecutor wasn't nearly as brave as Dallas County's. I have a certain level of responsibility and at a meeting two years ago told many members of the criminal justice system in my county they no longer have my support. They'll get it when they earn it.
More and more people are doing the same.

I hope things go well for Dallas and AG is convicted, but we learn to prepare ourselves for the worst these days. There's hope for change.

 

[grammieto5]

So I just watched AG testify again, I wanted to see if I was right when I watched it the first time. I was right, there are no tears.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Is there any useful media summary of the case against her?

There was a lot of confusion about the facts back in the day.

One of the things I wondered a lot about is how it was really possible to park on the wrong level?

BBM: Exactly, and the 4th floor is open - no roof - she is on 3rd floor - with cover.

And why park on 4th and take the elevator or stairs down a flight to your apartment?

Makes no sense at all.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

I don't seem to be invested as much as some posters on this thread. I'll accept the verdict & never think about this case again. The amount of hatred towards AG scares me & will remain with me.

You're seeing hatred here? I think that is a mischaracterization of posters here. I certainly don't hate her but her actions have alarmed me, angered me and disgusted me because of her reckless disregard for her victim's life. In America, our homes are supposed to be our sanctuary. If AG isn't convicted, justice has not been served.

JMO

 

[grammieto5]

It’s terrifying to think someone could walk into your home and kill you and just say “oh I thought I was in my home” So hey does this mean I can walk across the street, go four houses down and walk inside that home and kill that pedophile that was just released to live there and all I have to say is I thought I was in my home? If AG walks free, we all know bad things are going to happen.

 

[BeachSky]

Just double-checking here—did the jury ask if they could consider the Castle Doctrine, or did the defense ask if they could discuss it?

Judge Rules Jury Can Consider Castle Doctrine In Amber Guyger Murder Trial

During a session, outside of the presence of the jury, defense attorneys and prosecutors argued over the language of the instructions the judge with provide to jurors. It was during this session that Judge Tammy Kemp ruled the jury can consider the Castle Doctrine during deliberations.

 

[MTW2011]

This is a photo of her truck parked in the parking garage. It’s hard to tell if she was really in this area with no roof, especially with seeing the row of cars behind her vehicle that appears to be another area that goes up further. Hard to tell, from photos the garage seems confusing as it was reported to be.

Parking

 

[Indy Anna]

Aww, that's super sad to hear. I think it's sad that an innocent human life can be taken in such a bizarre and horrible way - sitting in their own home eating ice cream, resting form a day of work and executed by someone who entered by mistake - and there are some who can set that aside and never think of the case again.

I think life matters. Everyone's life. His life mattered.

He was by all accounts a beautiful man. Good friend. Sincere in his faith.

I think the sentiment that a man like this can be killed for no reason and people won't think twice about him or the case against his killer is is a prime reason why some march and pray and plead that the nation will believe their lives matter just like everyone else's.

I won't ever forget Botham Jean.

Excellent post, Gitana! I know I will never forget this case. I think about Botham every day and the thought of his last moments is horrifying. It's shocking that something like that can happen.

It would be even more shocking if AG is found not guilty. After her testimony and the testimony of others residing at the apartment complex, I don't doubt that she mistakenly went to the wrong apartment. Most witnesses only went to the wrong floor or went to the wrong door but realized their mistake before trying to enter. IIRC, only a couple of people entered the wrong apartment. They were inattentive, but at some point realized their error without shooting anyone. AG was inattentive when she opened the wrong door. It's her actions from that point that were unreasonable. Hearing someone inside the apartment should have been a cue to step back and take inventory of the situation, at which point she should have observed the red door mat and the apartment number.

I also found it disturbing that she didn't remember anything from her training classes from a year ago. I had jobs where I've gone through regular training and I remember things I learned in those classes and seminars from 25-30 years ago. I think she was just as inattentive in those classes as she was the night she shot Bo. IMO, she was never fit to carry a weapon. I think carrying the weapon and her position as an LEO made her feel important. Yes, she was remorseful during testimony, but I think that remorse is mostly because she's being held accountable. She's feeling sorry for herself, IMO. I do hope she will be found guilty of murder and spend time behind bars for what she did to an innocent man. I hope she is never again allowed to possess a firearm after she is released from prison.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Excellent post, Gitana! I know I will never forget this case. I think about Botham every day and the thought of his last moments is horrifying. It's shocking that something like that can happen.

It would be even more shocking if AG is found not guilty. After her testimony and the testimony of others residing at the apartment complex, I don't doubt that she mistakenly went to the wrong apartment. Most witnesses only went to the wrong floor or went to the wrong door but realized their mistake before trying to enter. IIRC, only a couple of people entered the wrong apartment. They were inattentive, but at some point realized their error without shooting anyone. AG was inattentive when she opened the wrong door. It's her actions from that point that were unreasonable. Hearing someone inside the apartment should have been a cue to step back and take inventory of the situation, at which point she should have observed the red door mat and the apartment number.

I also found it disturbing that she didn't remember anything from her training classes from a year ago. I had jobs where I've gone through regular training and I remember things I learned in those classes and seminars from 25-30 years ago. I think she was just as inattentive in those classes as she was the night she shot Bo. IMO, she was never fit to carry a weapon. I think carrying the weapon and her position as an LEO made her feel important. Yes, she was remorseful during testimony, but I think that remorse is mostly because she's being held accountable. She's feeling sorry for herself, IMO. I do hope she will be found guilty of murder and spend time behind bars for what she did to an innocent man. I hope she is never again allowed to possess a firearm after she is released from prison.

JMO

What she did was both infuriating and inexcusable.

I think lots of people have made the mistake of going to the wrong door, and I tend to buy that as happening here.

What I don’t buy, is her having no other option but to fire her weapon.

She wasn’t trapped, and she didn’t have to go any further. She could have backed away, and contacted law enforcement.

She didn’t.

Looking at the law here, and what constitutes murder vs manslaughter, I think I’d vote for manslaughter if I was on that jury.

If she walks, that would be absolutely outrageous. You don’t get to kill an innocent man in his own home.

Sorry doesn’t cut it.

ETA: I wouldn’t shed a tear if she were to be convicted of murder, but I just don’t see enough to get the jury there.