TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #47

[sorrell skye]

Well, BD has probably told the truth, the whole truth, & nothing but the truth.

Her lover probably has nothing to do with her daughter's disappearance. He probably never threatened to murder her, or CD, or Hailey. Maybe the 911 tapes were all fabricated, because LE has a grudge against BD, for whatever reason.

SA just may be telling the truth about being fired on Dec. 27. Maybe we should just believe that his boss is the one who's lying.

If we are to believe SA, the cell phone pings are false - because of course, he went directly to his mother's house after being *fired* from work. Of course SA didn't return to C-City on the morning of Dec. 27. Why would we think such a thing?!

If we are to believe BD & SA - MB's mother is lying about a sleep-over.

In fact - maybe Sparky Dean was mistaken when he said the "The family has not been forthcoming," and "Their discernment of the truth continues to change. It's very frustrating." After all, BD & SA have said they've told the truth - why should anyone doubt them?

Perhaps it's all been just a huge misunderstanding.

And anyone who questions anything BD or SA have said is probably just crazy or lying or falsely accusing them.

MOO

<Mod snip>

 

[gngr~snap]

That would be the furthest thing from my mind... I would be saying, 'after I get Hailey back I'll get down on my knees every day for the rest of my life and thank God that I have a living, breathing daughter back home, back in my arms. I don't care about anything else but getting her back. Slander me, call me names, just get my daughter home.'

"Thanks" was not enough!
me too!

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Ativan is a very powerful anti-anxiety medication. I don't quite understand its recent rise in popularity as a recreational drug, something like the barbituate phase in the early '70's?

On the 'dental' medications, does anyone know for sure if there were actual verified dental issues, as in TREATED by a dentist dental problems? I sure wouldn't assume NOT, but at the same time, almost every drug user I worked with claimed dental problems as a justification. One was a corporate comptroller who not only had a drug addiction supported by her dentist, but was hauled into court to testify at the trial of said dentist when he was busted for supplying drugs to addicts.

ETA: I believe the NARCOTICS would be a separate thing. I'm guessing she was not administered the first poly due to a narcotic drug showing up on a drug test, something maybe like Oxycodone. The second time she showed for a poly, since she was actually administered the test, she probably did NOT have narcotics in her system, but may have taken the second poly while under the influence of Ativan (an anti-anxiety med) and antibiotics, but still failed (showed deception). Some people believe they can 'beat' a poly using anti-anxiety meds. This could also account for her 'flat' emotionless effect. All just questions, moo.

ETA to the ETA: Nevermind. I have no clue when she was taking what. I do not believe Ativan is a narcotic, though. The affadavit, a legal document, says narcotic, but on NG, BD said Ativan? I'm inclined to believe the pain med for 'dental' was a narcotic, especially if accompanied by antibiotic. I've NEVER heard of Ativan being prescribed for pain. Never. Oxycodone, plenty.

One drug that has been shown in some tests to be able to help one lie on a poly and pass is a strong betablocker, such as a large dose or Atenolol.
Such a simple pill that many people, like myself, have taken for mitral valve prolapse.
Easily available and not very controlled in a hospital setting.
I don't have to take it anymore, but I could have robbed a bank and not broken a sweat. The dose has to be that high.
Betablockers are not really locked up in clinical facilities as they are not considered drugs of abuse.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Trying not to be "tactfully lacking" here. It's one of the biggest problems I have
BD's comment about dealing with slander... Does she believe that if HD shows up alive that she'd be returned to BD's home and life would resume "normally " while she sues everyone that said all these lies about her?
IMO HD would never be allowed to live with BD again. (well not until she was 18 anyway)
Almost reminds me of MC's little rant on the prison phone... how she would tell the whole world. NO, NO, no, not even gonna paraphrase that!
OT I saved a "mask pic" from this case... hubby was cleaning up CPU space and came across it. He TOTALLY freaked out! deleted it pronto and made a bee-line to me. I gotta time-out for skeerin hims!!I'm serious! no more freakin pics allowed pn CPU!!! as he walked away under hos breath I heard... "Hailey,you poor thing ... he creeped me out too geez I hate masks! Who buys those things?"
android posted excuse typos please!

Yes..passion..it certainly does have shades of Misty Croslin..jailhouse tapes that she is rolling her head around..with some WT attitude saying"...and once I get outta here they all gonna kiss my azz and see I didn't have chit to do with that little girl missin'..and they all gonna owe me a big nationwide apology!"..and we then saw mom feeding right in Misty's delusions saying "oh yes honey..they gonna owe you big time apologies..and we gonna see to it that you get em' baby"..

I was very disturbed when I read that statement from Billie in the news article from this evening.. Not only the over the top statements of.."once I get Hailey home"..yea right...we certainly do wish that were indeed the case amd that it was like Billie stated.."Hailey come home when you get ready"...pluh-eeze..It wasn't all of those things that was disturbing it was the obvious emphasis that she put on the "slander and libel"..and how we better bet and better believe that she will indeed tend to those matters regarding her character being assassinated {basically stating there would be a law suit..and IMO it was stated as if a warning to those who dare continue with what she calls the "character asassinations"}..

Note to self oughta be..In order bring any type of lawsuit regarding slander and libelous statements and character assassination..that THE STATEMENTS THAT SHE IS CALLING "SLANDEROUS" OR "LIBELOUS" MUST BE ABLE TO BE PROVEN THAT THERE IS NO BASIS NOR TRUTH TO WHAT IS BEING SAID{i.e. when the statements are not slandering rather they are only observations made directly of the statements and actions of none other than BILLIE HERSELF}..and are proven to indeed be accurate and true..WELL..THERE WILL BE NO LAWSUIT NOR ANY BASIS OF EVEN THINKING ABOUT HAVING A LAW SUIT..

Disturbing in many ways.. not seeing or being able to accurately access one's own actions and statements..disturbing that one cannot see one's self for who and what it is.. disturbing that this{Billie being slandered} was given MUCH MUCH MORE EMPHASIS than any pleas for Hailey's return..

Disturbing and sad..imo

 

[SuperChicken]

Belimom--I liked the post you just shared. If you read my earlier post about the timeline, I see a window of opportunity between the hours of 9:00pm Sunday night and Monday morning at 9:30am. If SA did get to work at 6:00am Monday, stay for 10 minutes and then leave, he could have had time to pick up BD and get her to work on time, right? I wonder who BD called on the cell phone that morning? At first BD said SA left work on Tuesday afternoon and saw HD then changed the story to there was a problem at work and SA had lost his job. There was also a change from SA arriving at BD's house on Tuesday at 1:00pm, then that time changed to 3:00pm. IMO, we don't have verification from LE who BD rode to work with Monday morning or what time she got there. I'm not saying BD's friend is wrong, but if SA took BD to work Monday morning I have some follow-up questions.... JMO

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

It's been awhile since I've posted, but I've been following along. The only timeline that makes any sense to me is BeanE's because it's straightforward. On December 26th, Sunday night at 9:00pm it states DD sees HD playing video games. It is considered to be the "last reliable sign of life from Hailey." If I just consider that one statement alone, the window between 9:00pm Sunday night and 6:00am Monday morning seems more suspect IMO.

1. What happened Sunday night after DD left?

2. Why did SA leave 30 minutes before BD to go to work for only 10 minutes and leave? Why did he go back to BD's house in Colorado City for such a short amount of time?

3. Why is BD unsure if it's really HD? Why would she have to touch her to be sure? Did this really happen? Who does BD call for the last time at 6:20am before leaving for work with a co-worker?

4. Why are none of the HD "sightings" validated?

5. Why are all of the times of the sightings of HD and the comings and goings of SA and BD changing?

6. Why was SA locked in BD's house at 4:00pm Monday, December 27th not answering DD's knocks? Why the shock at seeing DD? What did DD do next?

7. Why did BD leave work early? Why did SA walk off his job that morning?

8. Why buy drugs?

9. Why not call HD?

10. Why check on HD at 12:00pm, Tuesday December 28th? Why now after not seeing her since Sunday night, December 26th?

I think the point I'm trying to make is that the word "reliable" from BeanE's timeline is very important, at least to me. IMO, nothing has made any sense in this case after DD walked out the door Sunday night, December 26th. I understand HD was with CD Saturday, December 25th. HD was with him the night of December 25th. I know HD went to BD's house sometime on Sunday, December 26th. I believe DD saw HD at 9:00pm Sunday night. I believe DD came back at 4:00pm Monday, December 27th and saw SA under strange circumstances. I believe that DD left and stayed at friends until an unknown time after BD reported HD missing. IMO and JMO, the timeline shows that from 9:00pm Sunday, December 26th after DD left, no one verified has seen HD alive. Sunday night from 9:00pm until Monday morning at 9:30am (according to cell phone pings) was a window. Monday afternoon from 3:00pm until 5:00pm was a window (according to cell phone pings) although interrupted by DD at 4:00pm. Monday afternoon from 5:45pm until Tuesday afternoon at 1:00pm was a window. The question I have is what happened during those windows. IMO, the windows of time are so vast that the answer unfortunately is--anything the perpetrator wanted-approximately 30 hours of unaccounted for time near or around BD's home. Obviously the window increases once HD leaves or is removed from BD's home. Again, only my opinion.

:waitasec:This does make the time window between 9pm Sunday night and 6am Monday morning interesting.
We know from profiling that when someone is connected to a crime like this, they often quit their jobs and alter their normal routines.
Why did DD find the door locked when it never was before?
Why did SA walk out of a job he clearly hadn't been fired from?
Why did he erase the calls/texts to "Billie" from his phone?
Why did she leave work early?
So many red flags as Pat Brown would say

 

[OneLove]

Since the affidavits state "illegal narcotics", they have to be one or more of the following:
Codeine, Duramorph (morphine), Hycodan (hydrocodone), Lortab, Vicodin, OxyContin, Percolone, Endocet, Percocet, Percodan, Narcan, Trexan, buprenorphine (Buprenex), Stadol, fentanyl, meperidine (Demerol), methadone or Talwin.
Just thinking out loud.
Pretty heavyduty meds for recreational use.
Seems like self-medicating to me.
What are the underlying psychological triggers for this need?
Everyone that abuses drugs has their own reasons.
I am interested in what the reasons SA and BD had.
In other words, why did they need to stay sedated?
Was it something they were involved in that led them to need the relief?I have no idea.

BBM

The same website I referenced earlier states low socioeconomic circumstances and unemployment as high statistical factors in drug abuse. I would think that could mean hopelessness, despair, and boredom, mixed with depressing poverty. Kinda makes me want some medicated relief just thinking about it; I can't imagine living it everyday, day in and day out.

I am a bit interested in the murder crimes with a sexual twist after reading about the benzodiazepam use as a date-rape drug along with the amnesia it can produce. I didn't see it myself, but others have said BD admitted Ativan use on NG? Did she ever have a legitimate prescription for it? Did SA have legitimate scripts for his benzo also? It opens up a diff view if their usage began legitimately and they just try to continue it as conveniently and cheaply as possible.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Since the affidavits state "illegal narcotics", they have to be one or more of the following:
Codeine, Duramorph (morphine), Hycodan (hydrocodone), Lortab, Vicodin, OxyContin, Percolone, Endocet, Percocet, Percodan, Narcan, Trexan, buprenorphine (Buprenex), Stadol, fentanyl, meperidine (Demerol), methadone or Talwin.
Just thinking out loud.
Pretty heavyduty meds for recreational use.
Seems like self-medicating to me.
What are the underlying psychological triggers for this need?
Everyone that abuses drugs has their own reasons.
I am interested in what the reasons SA and BD had.
In other words, why did they need to stay sedated?
Was it something they were involved in that led them to need the relief?
I have no idea.

Above BBm.. I totally agree with you SNOWIN MEMPHIS..and only wanted to add in one other little detail..
Added at the end of the BBM..note that unlike how Billie has alluded to the "illegal narcotics" as simply being her narcotic pain med for tooth..and anti-anxiety for "stress"..that the affidavit is pointing to NOTHING MORE than her prescriptions.. so add in that in order for the list you posted above the fact that it could ba any of those meds BUT NOT THE ONES PRESCRIBED TO HER{as shes attempting say are what LE infers are "illegal"}..

but that they would be considered illegal narcotics if she/he were to obtain any of those meds in an illegal way{i.e. falsifying script..or purchasing the pills on the "street"}..

They would definitely fall into illegal category if they were obtained in such a manner..

As I said ITA with your post just wanted to add in that little tidbit

 

[OneLove]

:waitasec:This does make the time window between 9pm Sunday night and 6am Monday morning interesting.
We know from profiling that when someone is connected to a crime like this, they often quit their jobs and alter their normal routines.
Why did DD find the door locked when it never was before?
Why did SA walk out of a job he clearly hadn't been fired from?
Why did he erase the calls/texts to "Billie" from his phone?
Why did she leave work early?
So many red flags as Pat Brown would say

Couple that with the odd and creepy statement of BD's that she didn't actually "touch" her daughter so wasn't entirely sure.....
Even back then when that statement was released, it resonated off-key, almost as a backwards subconscious statement of possibly knowing that Hailey was in that bed but she wasn't sure she was still living and breathing?? Did she have reason to believe Hailey had ingested benzo's in a strong enough dose to be....harmful? Did she think Hailey may have been "sleeping it off" but couldn't bring herself to touch her to be sure she was still breathing? Did SA go back that day to check on it/take care of it? Was "deer-in-headlights" still in the process of taking care of it?

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Yes SmoothOperator, it is called illegal possession of a legend drug.
Legend drug=drug requiring a prescription.
The affidavit clearly states she admitted to buying "illegal narcotics".
Pure and simple. Whether she/he have prescriptions for some drugs, they did not have prescriptions to purchase these.
One of the most troubling files she printed off was the Bittaker (can't remember his partner's name) case out of California.
They had a van fitted for torturing women and they drove up and down the highways in California killing many, after long periods of torture. Stomach-turning.
Karla Homolka, iirc, used a sedative like Ketamine from the vet's office she worked at to sedate her own little teenage sister over a Christmas holiday at her parents' house.
This was so her husband could sodomize her sister.
She gave her too much, resulting in her death.
Sexual sadism, strong sedatives and gore fetish make for a dangerous mix.
Add to this that SA apparently had a valid prescription for Klonopin back in February of 2010.
This drug is a benzo, but it includes some antipsychotic properties as well.
Psychosis is a true parting with reality.
I don't know what to say except that this indicates a perfect storm that could account for the disappearance of Hailey.
I pray not, but things are really scary in this whole scenario.

 

[belimom]

Belimom--I liked the post you just shared. If you read my earlier post about the timeline, I see a window of opportunity between the hours of 9:00pm Sunday night and Monday morning at 9:30am. If SA did get to work at 6:00am Monday, stay for 10 minutes and then leave, he could have had time to pick up BD and get her to work on time, right? I wonder who BD called on the cell phone that morning? At first BD said SA left work on Tuesday afternoon and saw HD then changed the story to there was a problem at work and SA had lost his job. There was also a change from SA arriving at BD's house on Tuesday at 1:00pm, then that time changed to 3:00pm. IMO, we don't have verification from LE who BD rode to work with Monday morning or what time she got there. I'm not saying BD's friend is wrong, but if SA took BD to work Monday morning I have some follow-up questions.... JMO

Oh I agree with you 100%... I've been following this from Day One and just had czgtz's response catalogued away in my brain (along with all the inconsistencies in stories, etc), so I searched for it to answer tehcloser's question.

I think at this point, there are way more questions than answers. I backed off the case b/c I got frustrated and too wrapped up myself in speculations, w/o any new updates.

I just hope they find Hailey and that justice is served to whoever is responsible.

 

[Pondering Mind]

This is an example of what I meant when I posted that things can easily misunderstood. Some people here in Texas communicate in a very casual manner without much concern for the rules of grammar.

I think that Billie was trying to communicate that slandering her is not what is important; finding Hailey is the important thing.
She was trying to say that time and effort would be better spent finding Hailey.

My original post about speaking or writing style being misinterpreted was in referance to the wording in none of the affidavits. The officer wrote that Billie confirmed that DD pounded on the front door and had to climb through a window in order to enter the house. I am quite sure that the officer thought nothing of phrasing it the way that he did, even though it would have been more accurate to write that Billie had confirmed that DD had given her the same account of what happened when he came home that day.

It is just a difference in the way some people communicate.

You know it's just quite possible..actually it's quite likely that the officer thought nothing of the way he phrased it because that's the way it happened...and I'm am at a loss as to why you feel that LE would have been more accurate to write that Billie had confirmed that DD had given her the same account of what happened when he came home that day.. May I ask how you arrived at that conclusion? Do you know this officer? Does he have a problem putting what he means into words or on paper? Unless you have knowledge that the rest of us don't, I don't understand how you could possibly be so sure he didn't know what he meant to say..

I know we went over this the other day and I just have to say that Texas is not another country that speaks a different language. Yes, I'm on the East Coast, but I have a brother that has lived in Texas for 20 years and we understand each other just fine. I'm sure that you're not suggesting that just because someone doesn't live in Texas that we couldn't possibly understand what Billie or a LE officer means when they speak. I interpret it the way it was written, just like I interpret what Billie says just the way she says it. I mean no offense honestly, but it just amazes me to read others *presume* to know what Billie meant to say or was trying to say...or what LE meant to write or would have been more accurate to write in the affidavit. Please help me to understand how you have arrived at this conclusion...

 

[CKay]

Thank you for this Pondering! Now when we look at the affidavit it clearly says that deception was indicated. Deception is deceit, deceit is a lie. Since it was LE that wanted the polygraph to be done on BD and it was questions that LE wanted answered then we can clearly see that BD did in fact lie to LE.

The following is the part of the affidavit that deals with BDs polygraph:

During the investigation into the disappearance/kidnapping of Hailey Dunn, Billie Dunn has been interviewed numerous times by investigators and Dunn has volunteered to a polygraph examination on two occasions. On the first attempt to conduct the polygraph examination Dunn was found to be under the influence of narcotics and was prohibited from taking the examination. On the second attempt to conduct a polygraph examination of Dunn, she did submit to the polygraph and the results of the examination was deception indicated, meaning that Adkins (should read Dunn ~ inserted by me) failed the polygraph examination on the relevant questions of participation in the disappearance of Hailey Dunn. Following the polygraph examination Dunn was given an opportunity to explain her results of the polygraph examination and Dunn could not explain why she failed the polygraph examination. Dunn ended the interview by walking out of the interview.

http://www.newswest9.com/Global/link.asp?L=471989

Thank you to my tee mouse and everyoneneedsavoice for linking the page for the affidavit in thread 46.

red highlights by me

Aren't these 2 things contradictory? How can it be clear, if you needed to change it, to make it fit ??

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

If the reports of locals and neighbors in the news accounts are true, and Hailey had wanted to move in with her Father, and this had caused a big argument around Christmas, what are the odds that she would disappear right after spending the night with her Father?
Again, some psychosis must be present in SA. This is a very frightening thing.
Splitting between the "seeing" part of your self and the "doing" part is very dangerous.
I have a brother who hunts everything under the sun, as well as his petite 21 year old daughter.
Never have I heard of anyone dismembering a deer with a chainsaw.
Logic would say that bone fragments would be all in the meat.
Does someone like this kill animals just for the fun of the blood-letting?
I have never killed an animal, but I do not hate those that do. People do it for food and also to thin out populations of animals such as deer so that they do not starve because of dwindling land for them to graze on.
It's not uncommon for someone SA's age to watch slasher films.
I just have a hunch after viewing the videos he made, that he liked to act them out.
It isn't much of a stretch to say that he wanted to experience the real act, instead of the fake one.
I am not accusing anyone of anything.
I am merely pondering the things we have to work with.

 

[SuperChicken]

:waitasec:This does make the time window between 9pm Sunday night and 6am Monday morning interesting.
We know from profiling that when someone is connected to a crime like this, they often quit their jobs and alter their normal routines.
Why did DD find the door locked when it never was before?
Why did SA walk out of a job he clearly hadn't been fired from?
Why did he erase the calls/texts to "Billie" from his phone?
Why did she leave work early?
So many red flags as Pat Brown would say

Thank you Snow. Do we know if BD left the phone at home Monday for HD and DD? Has that been verified? I think what you posted about people "often quit their jobs and alter their normal routines" is very interesting. I think we should consider this. Could that cell phone call that BD made before leaving for work Monday morning be a huge factor that we've missed? IMO it could be one of the calls to "Billie" that SA erased to throw LE off. Not very clever, but possible IMO. SA's job was affected and his schedule definitely became altered. If he deleted three calls from his phone, IMO he was aware of the evidenciary value of a cell phone to LE, and it also shows a bit of a pattern:

1.) BD's call out before leaving the house Monday morning at 6:30am.
2.) SA's phone is off during a critical period of time (or not pinging).
3.) Strange text from someone using HD's phone Monday at 2:00pm.
4.) BD called DD at noon on Tuesday to call MB.

SA and BD both seemed to be very aware of the phones and where they were. BD knew DD would have the phone on Tuesday, SA possible took the battery out of his IMO, SA made 11 calls allegedly at his mom's, etc. This is all JMO, but could alibis be created with the facts we have now, and if SA took BD to work, wouldn't these pings be incredibly damaging? Again, JMO.

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Thank you Snow. Do we know if BD left the phone at home Monday for HD and DD? Has that been verified? I think what you posted about people "often quit their jobs and alter their normal routines" is very interesting. I think we should consider this. Could that cell phone call that BD made before leaving for work Monday morning be a huge factor that we've missed? IMO it could be one of the calls to "Billie" that SA erased to throw LE off. Not very clever, but possible IMO. SA's job was affected and his schedule definitely became altered. If he deleted three calls from his phone, IMO he was aware of the evidenciary value of a cell phone to LE, and it also shows a bit of a pattern:

1.) BD's call out before leaving the house Monday morning at 6:30am.
2.) SA's phone is off during a critical period of time (or not pinging).
3.) Strange text from someone using HD's phone Monday at 2:00pm.
4.) BD called DD at noon on Tuesday to call MB.

SA and BD both seemed to be very aware of the phones and where they were. BD knew DD would have the phone on Tuesday, SA possible took the battery out of his IMO, SA made 11 calls allegedly at his mom's, etc. This is all JMO, but could alibis be created with the facts we have now, and if SA took BD to work, wouldn't these pings be incredibly damaging? Again, JMO.

:waitasec:See I still don't know if BD left her phone at home that day.
The affidavits state that SA's phone service is with Verizon.
All Verizon phones, even the cheapest, come with a GPS chip in them that know where the phone is at all times, even when shut off, if I am not mistaken.
Mine has one.
It can be turned off, but why? Not for any good reason, logic would say.

 

[OneLove]

Yes SmoothOperator, it is called illegal possession of a legend drug.
Legend drug=drug requiring a prescription.
The affidavit clearly states she admitted to buying "illegal narcotics".
Pure and simple. Whether she/he have prescriptions for some drugs, they did not have prescriptions to purchase these.
One of the most troubling files she printed off was the Bittaker (can't remember his partner's name) case out of California.
They had a van fitted for torturing women and they drove up and down the highways in California killing many, after long periods of torture. Stomach-turning.
Karla Homolka, iirc, used a sedative like Ketamine from the vet's office she worked at to sedate her own little teenage sister over a Christmas holiday at her parents' house.
This was so her husband could sodomize her sister.
She gave her too much, resulting in her death.
Sexual sadism, strong sedatives and gore fetish make for a dangerous mix.
Add to this that SA apparently had a valid prescription for Klonopin back in February of 2010.
This drug is a benzo, but it includes some antipsychotic properties as well.
Psychosis is a true parting with reality.I don't know what to say except that this indicates a perfect storm that could account for the disappearance of Hailey.
I pray not, but things are really scary in this whole scenario.

I assume Klonopin would not be prescribed lightly. Do you believe it is ever prescribed if a person has NOT had some symptoms of psychosis?

I know psychosis is a very serious thing. I moved last year to care for my granddaughter, whose mother experienced psychosis during a particularly bad, extended bipolar type I manic phase following birth. Her physicians said she was never to be left alone with the baby. Even after months of maximum dose of the anti-psychotic med Seroquel, she still had symptoms. It also can become easy for a person to hide psychosis once they figure out how much it scares people. My daughter-in-law admitted doing this with some people but thankfully trusted me with the truth, well, at least at times, haha.

So if Billie's 911 call last year referenced SA's mental health issues, and if he was supposed to be taking Klonopin then, I wonder how things might have changed in this past year. Poor kids. They not only had to watch terror on the screen, they lived with it breathing and walking in their own house.

 

[SuperChicken]

If the reports of locals and neighbors in the news accounts are true, and Hailey had wanted to move in with her Father, and this had caused a big argument around Christmas, what are the odds that she would disappear right after spending the night with her Father?
Again, some psychosis must be present in SA. This is a very frightening thing.
Splitting between the "seeing" part of your self and the "doing" part is very dangerous.
I have a brother who hunts everything under the sun, as well as his petite 21 year old daughter.
Never have I heard of anyone dismembering a deer with a chainsaw.
Logic would say that bone fragments would be all in the meat.
Does someone like this kill animals just for the fun of the blood-letting?
I have never killed an animal, but I do not hate those that do. People do it for food and also to thin out populations of animals such as deer so that they do not starve because of dwindling land for them to graze on.
It's not uncommon for someone SA's age to watch slasher films.
I just have a hunch after viewing the videos he made, that he liked to act them out.
It isn't much of a stretch to say that he wanted to experience the real act, instead of the fake one.
I am not accusing anyone of anything.
I am merely pondering the things we have to work with.

Can you explain this more for me? I'm interested in what that means, I'm just not sure I understand it. BBM

 

[Pondering Mind]

My heart is with you and your magnificent love that has never waned. You have my deepest love, respect, and condolences. And many thanks for the work you do here advocating for those without voices. ***hugs***

TY OneLove! Although I speak here often about the loss of 2 sons many years ago, I always hesitate to mention them 'upstairs' here even though obviously it is just one of the many reasons I am so passionate about our children. It's been a long time ago and I'm always worried that some may think I'm looking for sympathy or something of the like. In reality I started a thread in basement years ago on one of the anniversaries of their birth or death (can't remember which now) when I was at a very low point in my life and I NEEDED to talk about them. WS has been a blessing to me in more ways than one as it gave me an outlet in which to remember them since in real life, I have no one that really acknowledges that they ever existed. Neither one of my living children (grown now) were born when my oldest died of SIDS and my daughter was only 3 or 4 when I lost the 2nd..my youngest son of course wasn't born at either time. They know about them..but you know what they say..you don't miss what you never had and they never had them to remember them. My ex doesn't even see my 2 living children or their children (my precious grandchildren) and my mom and sis have never seemed to want to talk about them..and go on like they were never here. (and believe me, it's not because it's difficult for them to do) It's made it very difficult over the years when you feel like nobody but you ever loved them and thinks of them..and I do every single day. The peeps here have been like family and that means everything in the world to me and I hope that they know that..

Lordy, did not mean to go so far OT..I laid in the bed for over an hour not able to get Hailey off my mind..so I apologize for being 'punch drunk' lol! Think I'm going to try and give it another shot though!

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

I assume Klonopin would not be prescribed lightly. Do you believe it is ever prescribed if a person has NOT had some symptoms of psychosis?

I know psychosis is a very serious thing. I moved last year to care for my granddaughter, whose mother experienced psychosis during a particularly bad, extended bipolar type I manic phase following birth. Her physicians said she was never to be left alone with the baby. Even after months of maximum dose of the anti-psychotic med Seroquel, she still had symptoms. It also can become easy for a person to hide psychosis once they figure out how much it scares people. My daughter-in-law admitted doing this with some people but thankfully trusted me with the truth, well, at least at times, haha.

So if Billie's 911 call last year referenced SA's mental health issues, and if he was supposed to be taking Klonopin then, I wonder how things might have changed in this past year. Poor kids. They not only had to watch terror on the screen, they lived with it breathing and walking in their own house.

Some doctors will prescribe Klonopin without psychosis being present, but this is bad medicine.
Although it is in the same class of benzos as Xanax, it is a drug that is to be prescribed for someone who is experiencing psychosis along with panic/anxiety.
It also has a strong anti-convulsant property.
It should never be used in patients with bipolar disorder, preexisting depression or in those with addictive personalities.
Alcohol is a definite no-no with Klonopin!!
The use of this drug with alcohol can cause suicidal/homicidal ideation.
It should not be used with narcotics without blood testing and careful monitoring.