TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #47

[gngr~snap]

Again.....:floorlaugh:

seriously family aside :
anyone that attended a "party" of any
kind when a 13 yr old girl has been
"missing " or even " ranaway" 4 days ago...
geez anyone thar could entertain the thought of a party much less, actually ATTEND!?!? Show their face? I understand LE stating several suspects!

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

He is a pysch..but I sure wouldn't call it a trusting relationship. It's hard to develop a relationship in 5-10 minutes..that will be $75.00 please! <that's the extent pretty much and if you need to talk..well, then you pay more to see a therapist..:banghead:..I'm out of work right now with no insurance..hopefully that will change soon and I can find someone knew. It sucks though because even when I had ins. it wouldn't pay for mental health..it paid for meds, but never the office visits or anything else.

That makes me soooo sad.
Everyone deserves good health care.
The mind is just another part of the body and should be treated as such, not some phantom that one should be ashamed of when it gets a little sick.
It's like having diabetes.
There are proper drugs for mental issues also.
As soon as you can, please find a better psychiatrist.
Even though not all PDR's state that Klonopin has antipsychotic properties, it in fact does.
Sending you a big warm hug from Memphis!!!!
You deserve the best, and money should not prevent you from getting it.
The world just isn't right in so many ways...

 

[Pondering Mind]

This blew my mind as well...

Billie Jean Dunn: "I wish they could have listened to me, trusted me from the beginning, trust that I know Hailey better than anybody. I wish that other agencies could have gotten involved sooner than they did".

http://www.cbs7.com/news/details.asp?ID=23579

I mean really Billy? you wish they COULD have listened to you ...and TRUSTED you from the beginning? I kinda think LE wishes they could have trusted her in the beginning too!

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

It could be as simple as they just wanted to because they could. MOO, but anyone who wears a mask does so to hide...mostly psychological. We all have "masks" we wear everyday to project the person we want others to see...this is caring it a bit (little?) farther. I'm uncomfortable with many of the statements he has made and some that BD has made, but giving her the benefit of doubt at the moment. I should start writing them down and bring them here for input. He thinks he's smart and is going to get away with how he is involved....he won't. It does bother me that BD denies to see or just ignore the obvious descrpancies in his accountings. Gets my hinky meter going.

Was this hobby/fantasy kept between just the two or did BD & DD know about it?

Hope LE has the house and cars bugged/tracked. Also wonder if LE checked out the person/s they bought the drugs from that night. My thoughts on the money went to BD's money. ie: maybe they "borrowed" her money for the drugs or just plain took it and they had to replace it to show she had money there. One thing....a runaway may leave everything behind, but not money...nope.

Every psychopath/sociopath wears a mask.
He/she is most dangerous in that moment when some unlucky soul catches them when it slips!!!
And it always does.

 

[OneLove]

I am sorry for the loss of your children, even more sorry that nobody close to you thinks about them. I can understand where you are coming from...
(((((((hugs)))))))) please know that even strangers sometimes has more sympathy than those closest to us.

Being able to communicate here gives us windows into the soul without the distraction/obstruction of the physical, almost my concept of heaven, lol. It really is too bad that those closest to us do not get the opportunity to 'know' us in the same way. Maybe they would understand us better if they did. At the same time, maybe WE would understand THEM in a more complete way also.

It is possible that those close to you Ponder actually DO or did think of your precious babies but just didn't have the means to communicate it. Keyboards have opened up a whole new world....INNER SPACE. ***hugs***

 

[nobull]

Some doctors will prescribe Klonopin without psychosis being present, but this is bad medicine.
Although it is in the same class of benzos as Xanax, it is a drug that is to be prescribed for someone who is experiencing psychosis along with panic/anxiety.
It also has a strong anti-convulsant property.
It should never be used in patients with bipolar disorder, preexisting depression or in those with addictive personalities.
Alcohol is a definite no-no with Klonopin!!
The use of this drug with alcohol can cause suicidal/homicidal ideation.
It should not be used with narcotics without blood testing and careful monitoring.

I have to correct some erroneous info here. Clonazepam (Klonopin) resides in the class of medications called Benzodiazepines (Benzodiazepams is not a clinical class of drugs). Clonazepam (Klonopin) is "used to treat seizure disorders or panic disorder" per http://www.drugs.com/klonopin.html. It is NOT an anti-psychotic medication. The reason it MAY be used alongside an anti-psychotic medication for a patient would be to help relieve the anxiety experienced during a psychotic episode. It is expected practice (not bad practice) for physicians to use Clonazepam (Klonopin) in patients with anxiety issues. Patients certainly are not required to exhibit psychotic features to benefit from this medication. In fact, the vast majority of patients receiving Clonazepam (Klonopin) receive it due to panic attacks, generalized anxiety disorder or other anxiety features.

 

[gngr~snap]

Love, love, the Eagles...mostly early Eagles, but when they played 'Love Will Keep Us Alive' at my daughters wedding, I just lost it..


clarification...the Eagles DID NOT play at my daughters wedding...the song was played, lol!

OT mine eloped! On her FATHER'S B-DAY no less! lil turd! Then she moved 2100 miles away to be with her soldier! I luv her! and miss her so much I am SICK!
anywhooo I think "Kansas" might be my fav?
"Journey" . yup I AM older n dirt!.. never heard of that odd clown posse' until this case! Thought I was a hip mom. not so much I guess. AND THAT IS OK BY 9ME!

 

[Pondering Mind]

That makes me soooo sad.
Everyone deserves good health care.
The mind is just another part of the body and should be treated as such, not some phantom that she should be ashamed of when it gets a little sick.
It's like having diabetes.
There are proper drugs for mental issues also.
As soon as you can, please find a better psychiatrist.
Even though not all PDR's state that Klonopin has antipsychotic properties, it in fact does.
Sending you a big warm hug from Memphis!!!!
You deserve the best, and money should not prevent you from getting it.
The world just isn't right in so many ways...

We have a HUGE problem with insurance companies acknowledging mental health...and I'm afraid for people that are unstable..people always question why someone with a more serious mental illness does something horrible, never stopping to think that Mental Health has been swept under the rug for as long as I can remember and if you don't have money or insurance you're screwed. I think it's getting a little better now, but if people can't 'see it' with their own eyes, it's easy to pretend it doesn't exist....and until it gets really bad it becomes second nature to put that smile on your face and go about your business. I think much of it has to do with people tend to fear what they don't understand as well. As sad as it is to say, I would be a full time job for a therapist if I even knew where to start!

 

[bessie]

That's really interesting because my doc would rather prescribe klonopin instead of xanax, I wonder why?

Flavor of the month. I don't mean to be flippant, but it's a fact that even the best doctors will prescribe according to what the drug reps are touting. Talk about the tail wagging the dog! Never mind. Sorry for the OT, and no offense intended toward any of my honorable fellow posters.

 

[katydid23]

To support the theory that SA and perhaps BD were Insane Clown Pose fans:

From one of the affadavits, which described reading materials found in their room:


"Multiple pages of material associated with the rap group Insane Clown Posse
Between Sept. 30 and Oct. 5, 28 pages of cryptogram, associated with Insane Clown Possee AKA "Juggalos"

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Thank you for that nobul. We have already stated that it is a benzo,
and that it is used for panic disorder and as an anti-seizure drug.
I think what I was trying to get at is that it is often used in people with psychosis, and you are correct for the reason you stated.
Most psychiatrists I know do not rely on Klonopin as a first-line drug for GAD or panic disorder, usually opting for xanax or valium.
Every doctor has their own beliefs and every patient has their own unique needs.
Would you agree that from what we have seen of SA that he exhibits some psychotic behaviors?
And we know that he had a prescription for Klonopin in February of last year.
Just thinking out loud and weighing IF he could have been involved in Hailey's disappearance, what kind of personality would such a person have?
By rule of thumb, such a person would be a sociopath, one who is most likely to be homicidal.
As I have said before, I am not accusing anyone. I am praying Hailey comes home safe and sound.

 

[gngr~snap]

TY OneLove! Although I speak here often about the loss of 2 sons many years ago, I always hesitate to mention them 'upstairs' here even though obviously it is just one of the many reasons I am so passionate about our children. It's been a long time ago and I'm always worried that some may think I'm looking for sympathy or something of the like. In reality I started a thread in basement years ago on one of the anniversaries of their birth or death (can't remember which now) when I was at a very low point in my life and I NEEDED to talk about them. WS has been a blessing to me in more ways than one as it gave me an outlet in which to remember them since in real life, I have no one that really acknowledges that they ever existed. Neither one of my living children (grown now) were born when my oldest died of SIDS and my daughter was only 3 or 4 when I lost the 2nd..my youngest son of course wasn't born at either time. They know about them..but you know what they say..you don't miss what you never had and they never had them to remember them. My ex doesn't even see my 2 living children or their children (my precious grandchildren) and my mom and sis have never seemed to want to talk about them..and go on like they were never here. (and believe me, it's not because it's difficult for them to do) It's made it very difficult over the years when you feel like nobody but you ever loved them and thinks of them..and I do every single day. The peeps here have been like family and that means everything in the world to me and I hope that they know that..

Lordy, did not mean to go so far OT..I laid in the bed for over an hour not able to get Hailey off my mind..so I apologize for being 'punch drunk' lol! Think I'm going to try and give it another shot though!

shh... I won't tell in fact I'll slide over n you can talk anytime! Can't share your loss. But I'd be happy to pick ya up when u need it!

:hug:
sorry mods... = [
OT!

 

[yosande]

Thank you for that nobul. We have already stated that it is a benzo,
and that it is used for panic disorder and as an anti-seizure drug.
I think what I was trying to get at is that it is often used in people with psychosis, and you are correct for the reason you stated.
Most psychiatrists I know do not rely on Klonopin as a first-line drug for GAD or panic disorder, usually opting for xanax or valium.
Every doctor has their own beliefs and every patient has their own unique needs.
Would you agree that from what we have seen of SA that he exhibits some psychotic behaviors?
And we know that he had a prescription for Klonopin in February of last year.
Just thinking out loud and weighing IF he could have been involved in Hailey's disappearance, what kind of personality would such a person have?
By rule of thumb, such a person would be a sociopath, one who is most likely to be homicidal.
As I have said before, I am not accusing anyone. I am praying Hailey comes home safe and sound.

Imo, no, I haven't seen any psychotic behavior in SA. He seems very much in control of himself. Imo, he also thinks he's in control of the situation, and is enjoying himself watching people suffer, search, cry, pray, and sleuth what has happened to Hailey. Not for one moment has he in his own mind anyway been out of control of the situation.

Even the 911 call he made in Feb was cool headed, calm, in control, and absolutely destructive on BD behalf. She could have so easily had her kids taken from her had they believed what he said. Even when they ask him if he was aware of the warrant against him, he didn't blink. He simply lied about where he was...
all moo.
Sociopath, no doubt. Psychotic, nope. moo

 

[Pondering Mind]

Being able to communicate here gives us windows into the soul without the distraction/obstruction of the physical, almost my concept of heaven, lol. It really is too bad that those closest to us do not get the opportunity to 'know' us in the same way. Maybe they would understand us better if they did. At the same time, maybe WE would understand THEM in a more complete way also.

It is possible that those close to you Ponder actually DO or did think of your precious babies but just didn't have the means to communicate it. Keyboards have opened up a whole new world....INNER SPACE. ***hugs***

I wish that were the case. Without going into much detail upstairs here, let me say that when I became pregnant @ 15 (in 1973) I was told to have an abortion, have the baby in an unwed mothers home and put him up for adoption or get married and MOVE AWAY. Within 3 weeks of finding out I was pregnant, I was out of school, married and living in another city...and during those 3 weeks, my mom didn't say one word to me. .and that's the baby I lost to SIDS @ 10 months 3 weeks old. My parents had seen him once... It was all about appearances..just goes to show you that while things may look fine on the outside of a family, it sure doesn't mean they are on the inside...

Now that it's morning here on the east coast, I'm going try again to catch a few winks. I needed this tonight, so I thank you all so much..and hope the mods don't spank me for getting SO OT! :innocent:...Maybe we can go downstairs sometime and talk more...

 

[gngr~snap]

Thank you for that nobul. We have already stated that it is a benzo,
and that it is used for panic disorder and as an anti-seizure drug.
I think what I was trying to get at is that it is often used in people with psychosis, and you are correct for the reason you stated.
Most psychiatrists I know do not rely on Klonopin as a first-line drug for GAD or panic disorder, usually opting for xanax or valium.
Every doctor has their own beliefs and every patient has their own unique needs.
Would you agree that from what we have seen of SA that he exhibits some psychotic behaviors?
And we know that he had a prescription for Klonopin in February of last year.
Just thinking out loud and weighing IF he could have been involved in Hailey's disappearance, what kind of personality would such a person have?
By rule of thumb, such a person would be a sociopath, one who is most likely to be homicidal.
As I have said before, I am not accusing anyone. I am praying Hailey comes home safe and sound.

peds nirse here. not psych BUT I wanna say if that were the case and he was taking his meds he'd be ok. but iffin he ran out like

a week to 10 days earlier.... then that "could" be a problem. All I know is klonopin for seizures ... human... I am no expert. clonazepam =klonopin siezure
clonidine = grrrr gotta go check!

 

[bessie]

Iirc, those lyrics were found on SA's myspace, in the right hand corner. The pic with the eyes and the woods. I didn't see them myself, as he had made it private after it was mentioned here. Obviously they are keeping tabs on what it said here.
moo

The lyrics are from a Slipknot song. As for ICP, it seems Shawn was a fan. Among the items found in the house were cryptograms BD printed out at work from various websites. There is a note in the affadavit that cryptograms are associated with jugaloos. The only association I could find -- and believe me, I did some research as I had no earthly idea what was a jugaloo -- is an ICP song entitled "Cryptogram". I didn't find any references to jugaloos actually solving cryptograms, though I suppose I could've missed that part. :crazy:

 

[SmoothOperator]

That's really interesting because my doc would rather prescribe klonopin instead of xanax, I wonder why?

Seems to be the same for docs here in Memphis as well..I personally do not struggle with anxiety but have several clients who do and a family member as well..

And with all the ppl that I have discussed their different medications that they've been given..and what works best..etc..etc..
They all have told me that their Doctors specifically put them on Klonipin instead of the highly addictive Xanax{and yes I completely understand that the Klonopin is addictive as well}..but there's gotta be some reason that so many doctors prefer and therefor prescribe their patients Klonopin over Xanax 10to1...

I understand the Klonopin to be quite similar to Xanax.. and that the main reason Klonopin is preferred over Xanax is that unlike the extremely short-acting Xanax..the Klonopin has a much longer acting period of relief{as well as part of the reason Xanax is so addicting is that it is so very fast acting that many tend to get a "buzz"..a "high"..a "euphoric rush" from its quick onset where Klonopin does take longer for the effect and relief to begin and because it is slower to begin its effects it loses the "euphoric rush" like the Xanax provides}..

But I'll tell you in all the very many things I have been told over very many years..and all that I've seen and read about Klonopin.. I had NEVER HEARD THAT IF MIXED WITH ALCOHOL IT CAN CAUSE SUICIDAL/HOMICIDAL IDEATION!!!!

That shocked the hell out of me... WoW!

ETA~ and just to go a little further in explaining my shock bout the ideation effect of Klonopin mixed with alcohol... I have on more than one..or even two..occasions seen ppl that take Klonopin daily mix it with drinking alcohol{beer..margaritas..to mixed drinks}..and yes i've seen some "loopy" effects but the effect I have witnessed for the most part is the "black out" effect that comes with combining the two... where the person has acted inappropriate..or stated inappropriate things that never in a million years sober would they ever dream of saying.. and then when awaking the next day they have ZERO MEMORY OF THINGS THEY SAID OR DID DURING THAT "BLACK OUT" STAGE..

 

[SNOWINMEMPHIS]

Iirc, those lyrics were found on SA's myspace, in the right hand corner. The pic with the eyes and the woods. I didn't see them myself, as he had made it private after it was mentioned here. Obviously they are keeping tabs on what it said here.
moo

SORRY IT INSERTED WRONG QUOTE
Was replying to your post about SA not being psychotic.

I agree with alot that you said there.
People do snap in and out of psychotic states.
Some people are psychotic most if not all of the time.
Most people are not, they slip into psychosis when triggered.
The issue at hand here is that psychosis (temporary) is very often brought on by the use of drugs.
You make very valid points.
A sociopath, IMHO, can also slip into psychosis, thus doubling the danger.

 

[Melanie]

Well, BJD is finally frustrated:

Hailey has now been missing for 30 days and her mom is growing frustrated

I'm frustrated when I can't find a pair of matching socks. I'm frustrated when the alarm clock doesn't go off. I'm frustrated when I burn the chicken.

I'd be darn well DEVISTATED if my child was missing for 30 days.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/26631180/detail.html

Am I missing something? Is this "Texas speak"?

Hugs,

Mel

 

[Caligram]

OT ~ Oh my - I love Cryptograms puzzles. Now I read that some Jugaloos and some Insane Clowns have a song named Cryptogram. It's so not fair. I don't want to be freaked out when I grab a puzzle magazine some night. It's bad enough that I have both ADD and OCD and I'm left-handed and can't write in paragraphs.

I'll stick with my old Nat King Cole Hit Parade record album. I can understand the words, and the lyrics don't creep me out.

ETA this is IMHO