Identified! TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #4 Sherry Ann Jarvis

[PawneeDew]

Thank you for answering Carl.

What I'm picturing is two people throwing--one at her feet, the other her shoulders/ arms. I am leaning towards more than one person. This would also fit the possible sighting of her getting into a station wagon(?)

I've thrown people doing martial arts, which is why I'm a bit confused about one person throwing another person 20 feet. Maybe the height factors in too though if it was from a truck?

I've been around semi-trucks my whole life...at that height all you would need is just a light shove. Doesn't take a whole lot of effort.
Eta, plus if there was a kind of embankment or something, it would have added momentum..I could totally be wrong. But, imo it's definitely possible.

 

[PawneeDew]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sherry's murderer was a type of SK like Clark Perry Baldwin, who was recently charged with having killed Bitter Creek Betty and Sheridan Jane Doe. I'm not saying he killed her, but someone like him - a truck driver with a bunch of victims across the country, who has (up until almost 30 years later) never been identified. IMO, it is possible that, like others have discussed for years, she was killed by the same person as other Does and former Does like Debra Jackson, and it's just a matter of matching DNA/forensic evidence from her crime scene to others, like how Bitter Creek Betty and Sheridan Jane Doe's murders were linked. JMO.

Agreed

 

[Friday Fan]

I've been around semi-trucks my whole life...at that height all you would need is just a light shove. Doesn't take a whole lot of effort.
Eta, plus if there was a kind of embankment or something, it would have added momentum..I could totally be wrong. But, imo it's definitely possible.

Is this the spot..off the access road??? There is a guard rail up now. Image is from 2011. Pin from wikipedia link

 

[Friday Fan]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sherry's murderer was a type of SK like Clark Perry Baldwin, who was recently charged with having killed Bitter Creek Betty and Sheridan Jane Doe. I'm not saying he killed her, but someone like him - a truck driver with a bunch of victims across the country, who has (up until almost 30 years later) never been identified. IMO, it is possible that, like others have discussed for years, she was killed by the same person as other Does and former Does like Debra Jackson, and it's just a matter of matching DNA/forensic evidence from her crime scene to others, like how Bitter Creek Betty and Sheridan Jane Doe's murders were linked. JMO.

Lots of these truck drivers are getting caught now. Many are too young to have murdered Sherri. Baldwin would have been 19 at the time. (Well it's possible, but not likely)

I sometimes wonder if it was Samuel Little. He maybe was too embarrassed to talk about what he did to a very young white young girl.

He sure liked drawing pictures of his victims, but maybe he felt he could do that to exploit his victims because they were already marginalized? He also drew them with much more make up than the actually wore and they appeared to be caricatures. I swear he was reliving a demented fantasy when he drew them.

 

[Springrain]

Is this the spot..off the access road??? There is a guard rail up now. Image is from 2011. Pin from wikipedia link

I believe there are pics of the culvert she was found in on the WWWCJD FB page. I'll try to find them and post here.

 

[Springrain]

OK, here's the photo and description from the WWWCJD page:

"WCJD was found in the area of this culvert. The public information does not state whether she was in the culvert, or near it. But if she was in the culvert, it would raise questions regarding the trucker who spotted her, because even from the height of a truck cab, the culvert is not easily seen from the highway."



From the comments: "No, I haven't seen any crime scene photos. The current detective has said that even he does not know the precise location due to how much the highway and the topography around it has changed."

Lots of these truck drivers are getting caught now. Many are too young to have murdered Sherri. Baldwin would have been 19 at the time. (Well it's possible, but not likely)

I sometimes wonder if it was Samuel Little. He maybe was too embarrassed to talk about what he did to a very young white young girl. He sure liked drawing pictures of his victims, but maybe he felt he could do that to exploit his victims because they were already marginalized?

Yes, I don't think it was actually Clerk Perry Baldwin, but someone like him. I think his profile fits WCJD's killer too.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

The sun set in Huntsville at 5:33 PM on October 31, 1980. Daylight Saving Time ended on October 26th, 1980. (The current schedule is based on 2007 legislation)


So around 5:30 pm, the window was running out to make it out to the Ellis Unit with any visible light. The roads going up the the unit are two lane and rural. There do not appear to be any street lights for 15 miles.

Thank you. That's what I have always suspected about this case but was too lazy to research. This was entirely a nighttime situation. Too many of the recreations and accompanying mental images have her asking and hitching while still plenty of daylight.

I'd love to wager on car not truck. I don't care about adjustments like body position. That is kin to crime scene reconstruction, which is the ultimate crock. Bottom line there are a heck of a lot more cars than trucks. I want the numbers on my side. If she's walking along the highway at night a nimble car is massively more able and likely to stop, and for a young girl to be trusting of the occupant. Truckers already had reputation in that era.

Everything assigning Sherry to a truck is convenient rationalization. Meanwhile she arrived by car. Reportedly she left her home town toward Green Bay in a car. I don't know where this fascination with trucks comes from, other than she asked at a truck stop and recently there are tons of high profile reports of murderous truckers.

Who cares? Anecdotes don't come close to overcoming the sheer numbers game. I always look at it his way: If suddenly we have video of the actual event, then all of the convenient rationalizations are gone. Now it's the real world. Imagine peeking into the real world at Locklair Road 1976 and you need the Sumter County Does to be Canadian or Argentinian, etc. No thank you. There are reportedly majority Americans living and traveling through South Carolina. Now fast forward to Huntsville 1980. I'll take all those cars criss crossing in every direction. You guys are more than welcome to the occasional truck with the high seats.

 

[Tahlia Woodson]

Thank you. That's what I have always suspected about this case but was too lazy to research. This was entirely a nighttime situation. Too many of the recreations and accompanying mental images have her asking and hitching while still plenty of daylight.

I'd love to wager on car not truck. I don't care about adjustments like body position. That is kin to crime scene reconstruction, which is the ultimate crock. Bottom line there are a heck of a lot more cars than trucks. I want the numbers on my side. If she's walking along the highway at night a nimble car is massively more able and likely to stop, and for a young girl to be trusting of the occupant. Truckers already had reputation in that era.

Everything assigning Sherry to a truck is convenient rationalization. Meanwhile she arrived by car. Reportedly she left her home town toward Green Bay in a car. I don't know where this fascination with trucks comes from, other than she asked at a truck stop and recently there are tons of high profile reports of murderous truckers.

Who cares? Anecdotes don't come close to overcoming the sheer numbers game. I always look at it his way: If suddenly we have video of the actual event, then all of the convenient rationalizations are gone. Now it's the real world. Imagine peeking into the real world at Locklair Road 1976 and you need the Sumter County Does to be Canadian or Argentinian, etc. No thank you. There are reportedly majority Americans living and traveling through South Carolina. Now fast forward to Huntsville 1980. I'll take all those cars criss crossing in every direction. You guys are more than welcome to the occasional truck with the high seats.

I believe the "fascination" with trucks in this case is trying to justify the circumstances that she faced. Obviously we can't exclusively know what happened, as you stated, but it seems like circumstances lean towards a trucker picking her up as opposed to a car. My question is why are we so focused on which vehicle she was in? If we believe she was with a trucker, that's still a large number of suspects that are unthinkably hard to narrow down. Same with a car driver. We'd need more information of a suspect IMO because it's just so vague. Unlike other cases, we don't have an idea who she interacted with that could be a suspect, unlike cases such as Carolyn Eaton and Tammy Alexander.

 

[Beekarina]

There could be one primary attacker/murderer and more than one person involved. I probably was not clear above.

This is what I am leaning towards:

Sherry was seen getting into a station wagon with a couple of people after speaking with the waitress.
These people are somehow involved in her death.

Keep in mind station wagons of that era were "boats". There would have been plenty of room inside of one to commit a terrible crime too. They also could have taken her to a nearby house, abandoned building, etc.

Knowing where she was last seen, they dumped her along the highway.

I'm not opposed to the trucker theory. However, I do wonder why a trucker would do it right there where they picked her up? It seems like most of them liked to keep a victim around awhile. For company, for sex (and we do not even know if more conventional rape, etc was involved beyond the attack by object). It also seems kind of sloppy form for a trucker, given we have learned they all communicated about girls getting into trucks. It seems as though if Sherry got into a truck that night, other drivers would know. If Sherry got into a station wagon? She was just another person getting into a car.

I do think it seems like the killer wanted Sherry to be found--as a message? Or maybe they just didn't care about concealing what they did. If they viewed runaways, etc as "throwaways/invisible" like the Rhoades comment mentioned above, it could have been that kind of thing. Maybe they wanted to read all about it in the news the next day?

 

[Tahlia Woodson]

There could be one primary attacker/murderer and more than one person involved. I probably was not clear above.

This is what I am leaning towards:

Sherry was seen getting into a station wagon with a couple of people after speaking with the waitress.
These people are somehow involved in her death.

Keep in mind station wagons of that era were "boats". There would have been plenty of room inside of one to commit a terrible crime too. They also could have taken her to a nearby house, abandoned building, etc.

Knowing where she was last seen, they dumped her along the highway.

I'm not opposed to the trucker theory. However, I do wonder why a trucker would do it right there where they picked her up? It seems like most of them liked to keep a victim around awhile. For company, for sex (and we do not even know if more conventional rape, etc was involved beyond the attack by object). It also seems kind of sloppy form for a trucker, given we have learned they all communicated about girls getting into trucks. It seems as though if Sherry got into a truck that night, other drivers would know. If Sherry got into a station wagon? She was just another person getting into a car.

I do think it seems like the killer wanted Sherry to be found--as a message? Or maybe they just didn't care about concealing what they did. If they viewed runaways, etc as "throwaways/invisible" like the Rhoades comment mentioned above, it could have been that kind of thing. Maybe they wanted to read all about it in the news the next day?

Where does it say she got into a station wagon? Sorry to be a bother, but I can't find an online source that says she entered a station wagon after speaking to the waitress

 

[Friday Fan]

Where does it say she got into a station wagon? Sorry to be a bother, but I can't find an online source that says she entered a station wagon after speaking to the waitress

It was in an 2010 article in an Aransas Pass paper. The article had errors or at least it was inconsistent with much of what we knew. Article stated she was last seen on October 30th (wrong day). Article said she was last seen on a rural road going toward the prison, yet everything we know states she was last seen at the Hitch'n Post.

If indeed the girl's finger nails were dirty that is also news to me. If that is the case, they should have done nail clippings because the dirt was most likely the killer's blood.

The girl last was seen late in the day on Oct. 30, standing, possibly hitchhiking, on the side of a road just northeast of Huntsville, the detective said. The road led to the Ellis Unit.

The detective is a retired Houston detective and who knows where he got this information...


The article implies that much of what we heard from the Walker County Sheriff Dept is wrong or this detective is wrong or the person who wrote the article is wrong.

The detective may have been in the Aransas Pass area trying to find the girl and possibly did not have all of his facts straight. I don't know. The paper is a "weekly" as opposed to a "daily". I googled both the detective and writer of the article and both have good reputations, but maybe something was "lost in translation"...I really don't know.

I don't believe the writer of the article spoke with anyone in Walker County.


https://www.portasouthjetty.com/articles/cold-case/

 

[Tahlia Woodson]

It was in an 2010 article in an Aransas Pass paper. The article had errors or at least it was inconsistent with much of what we knew. Article stated she was last seen on October 30th (wrong day). Article said she was last seen on a rural road going toward the prison, yet everything we know states she was last seen at the Hitch'n Post.

If indeed the girl's finger nails were dirty that is also news to me. If that is the case, they should have done nail clippings because the dirt was most likely the killer's blood.


The detective is a retired Houston detective and who knows where he got this information...


The article implies that much of what we heard from the Walker County Sheriff Dept is wrong or this detective is wrong or the person who wrote the article is wrong.

The detective may have been in the Aransas Pass area trying to find the girl and possibly did not have all of his facts straight. I don't know. The paper is a "weekly" as opposed to a "daily". I googled both the detective and writer of the article and both have good reputations, but maybe something was "lost in translation"...I really don't know.

I don't believe the writer of the article spoke with anyone in Walker County.


https://www.portasouthjetty.com/articles/cold-case/

Thank you! That article definitely seems quite unreliable... not sure I would use it as a source

 

[Beekarina]

Is that the only place Sherry was mentioned getting into the station wagon? If so, then I agree I would not use it as a totally reliable source. I thought I read it elsewhere too, but it may have been pointing back to this article.

If she got into a car, it would not seem "street smart" to get into a car with multiple people you do not know, so *if* this is true, I would think she knew these people, at least casually. i.e. one of them had given her a ride previously, a friend of a friend, something.

I also would not discount the sighting of her getting into a car or being on a different road 100% based on the October 30th date. That could be something as simple as a typo or error on the newspaper's part. It is a bit of a red flag if there is a lot of information not found anywhere else--like the fingernails. It doesn't mean it was fabricated. I understand why you're skeptical though. I wonder if this detective is still alive?

 

[Beekarina]

And yes, from a quick scan, it does seem that the retired detective has a very good reputation. Perhaps his info about Sherry was correct, and the author/paper noted the dates incorrectly?

 

[fhesse]

Sherry was seen getting into a station wagon with a couple of people after speaking with the waitress.

Okay, I see.

I personally think a trucker is the most likely hypothesis right now, but I admit that this observation actually doesn't fit. I don't quite know what to make of it but there are a number of reasons why this one may not be relevant. For example, the sighting itself is not very credible (the witness could only have seen her for a brief moment in the dark), I am aware of only one source that refers to this witness statement (which was not made by an official investigator), and Sherri/Sherry may have returned to the truck stop after learning how far away the Ellis prison still is and that her best chance of getting some rest for the night would be to ask a trucker (a habit she may have learned on the run). But I agree that the statement itself points elsewhere.

But even if the sighting is true and she actually got into the car, that would only affect my assessment of the trucker theory. I would still be very skeptical that these guys in the station wagon are the perpetrators. First, the location where she was found really doesn't make sense in this scenario (as I've already explained), and I really doubt that the killer(s) would intentionally lay false tracks of this nature. Also, her killing was not a rape gone wrong, but an incredibly sadistic murder. We're not talking about a bunch of drunken jocks assaulting a helpless woman like in the movie The Accused, but a deeply disturbed individual like in the movie Seven or something. This was most likely an exceptionally depraved serial killer. Trucker or not.

 

[squish]

I'm not opposed to it being a trucker, but I don't think the body position is proof. It would have been very hard - no matter how strong the killer was - to throw a 110-120lb body sideways out of the cab while himself having to lean across the seats. It would have been more efficient to get out the car/truck, pick her up, walk a few steps then dump her.

To me her body position might only suggest that she was dumped roughly by someone who doesn't care, and never looked back at her after he unceremoniously threw her body to the ground.

 

[fhesse]

I'm not opposed to it being a trucker, but I don't think the body position is proof.

I also don't think the position in which her body was found is proof of a trucker, because I have no idea how the body was positioned. My thinking is based on something else, ie. the location she was placed.

However, Carl Koppleman said a few posts earlier that he was told (presumably by one of the investigators) that it does indeed indicate that she was thrown from a higher vantage point. What that means I don't know, but they must have reasons for that assumption.

 

[CarlK90245]

OK, here's the photo and description from the WWWCJD page:

"WCJD was found in the area of this culvert. The public information does not state whether she was in the culvert, or near it. But if she was in the culvert, it would raise questions regarding the trucker who spotted her, because even from the height of a truck cab, the culvert is not easily seen from the highway."

View attachment 322281

Just to be clear, at the time I visited Huntsville, I had thought there was a culvert near where she was found. I later learned that there was no culvert in any of the crime scene photos, or any other landmarks that can tie the 1980 terrain to the current terrain, so they do not know the precise spot of where she was found - only that it was about a mile south of the FM1696 exit.

 

[Beekarina]

They either did not care, or they were making a statement and wanted her to be found.

I wasn't putting forth the theory that the guys in the station wagon (if they existed) were drunken jocks. We have no idea why Sherry was associating with, or trying to reach someone in Ellis.

 

[CADwrest]

Knowing where she was last seen, they dumped her along the highway.

A group of locals doing this would involve some planning and discussion; it’s essentially a forensic counter measure to fool police into thinking “trucker” instead of “local.” However, people had seen this girl around, and it’d be possible, if she’s found quickly, a witness could tie her to them. So since we’re thinking someone doing some planning here, a far better plan would be to dispose of her somewhere where she’ll not be found for a long time, if ever (and there were lots of options for this.) That way, memories fade and witnesses forget. If the waitress and gas station owner weren’t asked about her for years and then only shown a forensic reconstruction, they probably wouldn’t remember, as opposed to a couple of days with an actual photo.

I'm not opposed to the trucker theory. However, I do wonder why a trucker would do it right there where they picked her up? It seems like most of them liked to keep a victim around awhile. For company, for sex (and we do not even know if more conventional rape, etc was involved beyond the attack by object). It also seems kind of sloppy form for a trucker, given we have learned they all communicated about girls getting into trucks. It seems as though if Sherry got into a truck that night, other drivers would know.

Remember though the attitude of the trucker in the article that was posted (the one written by the woman who’d done a lot of hitch-hiking with them.) He was one of the good ones, but what’d he do when police are in the process of pulling a dead teenage hitch-hiker out of a dumpster? He pays for his gas and gets on the road, because he doesn’t want to get caught up in something that’s going to delay him. These guys have tight schedules and deadlines to meet, and they’re never anywhere for very long. Every trucker there that night was probably gone in the morning, and by the time they get back that way and hear about it- well, they’ve heard countless stories just like that, unfortunately. Their first instinct isn’t going to be to pull into the Sheriff’s office and say “Well, I don’t remember which night it was, exactly, but I heard something on the radio about a girl getting into X’s truck.” They’re probably going to assume they don’t know anything important and not borrow trouble.