TX - Mass Shooting at Fort Hood, 5 November 2009 #1

[butwhatif?]

This is not about other soldiers having to tread lightly because of his religion and not reporting their concerns.

Surely this was a HUGE red flag to his superiors....

Benyedder said there was no signs of anger or frustration from Hasan during his years at the mosque, but recalled that Hasan sought the advice of a few Muslim brothers regarding a presentation he had been preparing to give to his superiors in the Army. Part of the presentation included the argument that the Army should release a soldier from duty if his religion prevented him from actions and orders by the army, Benyedder recalled.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110600907.html

And this HUGE red flag that the authorities knew about 6 months ago!

The Associated Press reported that Hasan attracted the attention of law enforcement authorities in recent months after an Internet posting under the screen name "NidalHasan" compared Islamic suicide bombers to Japanese kamikaze pilots. "To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate," the posting read. "It's more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause."

He even hired a lawyer to try to get a discharge and offered to pay back the money for his medical training- but still they kept him.This info comes from his family who are NOT defending his actions. The officials will not confirm or deny it at this point.

Why was he not discharged? And if he had been discharged would this have happened? Would have have still gone on a bloody rampage?
Should anybody in the armed forces be forced to stay against their will regardless of race, religion and political beliefs?
And the ones that do request a discharge should not be called cowards, or guilted, or forced into staying.
I know they are desperate for manpower , but at what expense?
JMO

 

[krazykidz]

the way i understand it is that he could only go so far with his "objections" to staying in the army. saying he had religious objections in recent months apparently did not fly with the superiors...especially since he joined of his own free will as a practicing lifelong muslim and readily accepted the conditions of service commitment to the army after reaping the rewards of free school and medical training!!! the army and american taxpayers paid for 13 years of training for this guy!!! he was such a loser that his imam at his personal mosque in maryland could not even find a wife for him. his conditions were apparently too strigent.........geeez!

 

[OrdinaryLife]

This "man" has, yet again, given Muslims another devastating black eye. This was not about being a Muslim, but how *he* felt and was going through. It disturbs me to read such a slam against those of another religious belief. Put this murderous crime into perspective. *HE* decided to go on a murder spree for his own reasons. To take out and make some killing statement himself. He. Did. Not. Care. For all we know, he could have been on some suicide mission, but rationalized taking out as many as he could have before dying himself.

 

[Texas Mist]

Last nite I asked DBF "what happened to just going AWOL?" Surely he was intelligent enough to figure out how to get to another country where he could live as he wanted, not to mention find supporters to hide him out.

But no - he lashed out at all those people who were living up to the oath *they* took at enlistment:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

 

[Silk]

Rosie:

Those who must take care of Hasan won't like it but they will DO so because THEY HONOR their committment to their profession, unlike Maj. Hasan.

 

[krazykidz]

oh, and if it is found that he did write the extremist islamic manifesto on the internet, espoused anti-american views to army veterans and soldier patients (!), filed bogus charges of religious harrassment against fellow docs, and was a known "troublemaker", then heads are gonna roll. of course, that would only be if it is not swept under the rug by our pc crazed media and government....which ironically would be the reason why he was not dishonorably discharged to begin with. ack. he should have been booted out and sued for the money he owed the government if this is so.

this was an evil act that was carefully planned for maximum destruction by a very ideologically radical disturbed @$@$%@!!%$ individual. thank goodness our hero soldiers kept it from being worse than it was. bah

 

[Muffet]

This is not about other soldiers having to tread lightly because of his religion and not reporting their concerns.

Surely this was a HUGE red flag to his superiors....



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110600907.html

And this HUGE red flag that the authorities knew about 6 months ago!

I agree - I think his superiors absolutely did not take it seriously enough.

He even hired a lawyer to try to get a discharge and offered to pay back the money for his medical training- but still they kept him.This info comes from his family who are NOT defending his actions. The officials will not confirm or deny it at this point.

It will be interesting to find out whether or not that's true, but families are rarely objective sources I'd trust.

His cousin said they aren't defending his actions, but he sure was trying to defend his motives, with all that about how the only reason he did it was that he was afraid, and IMO, blaming the victims by going on about harassment. (Which from what we're seeing likely came as a result of his relentlessly pushing his very strong beliefs on them, as far back as med school.)

Why was he not discharged? And if he had been discharged would this have happened? Would have have still gone on a bloody rampage?
Should anybody in the armed forces be forced to stay against their will regardless of race, religion and political beliefs?
And the ones that do request a discharge should not be called cowards, or guilted, or forced into staying.
I know they are desperate for manpower , but at what expense?
JMO

I totally agree that he should have been discharged - and billed. But only for the sake of security.

And this man knew darn well what he was signing up for to exploit for his own benefit - a 6 figure income - and I have no problem with their calling him out and officially noting his dishonorable behavior.

 

[Muffet]

Last nite I asked DBF "what happened to just going AWOL?" Surely he was intelligent enough to figure out how to get to another country where he could live as he wanted, not to mention find supporters to hide him out.

But no - he lashed out at all those people who were living up to the oath *they* took at enlistment:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

He probably didn't want to lose his license and ability to rake in the income he could get with the degree. :no:

Why do I doubt he asked to be discharged while he was getting the free ride through med school and post grad?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

This is not about other soldiers having to tread lightly because of his religion and not reporting their concerns.

Surely this was a HUGE red flag to his superiors....



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110600907.html

And this HUGE red flag that the authorities knew about 6 months ago!



He even hired a lawyer to try to get a discharge and offered to pay back the money for his medical training- but still they kept him.This info comes from his family who are NOT defending his actions. The officials will not confirm or deny it at this point.

Why was he not discharged? And if he had been discharged would this have happened? Would have have still gone on a bloody rampage?
Should anybody in the armed forces be forced to stay against their will regardless of race, religion and political beliefs?
And the ones that do request a discharge should not be called cowards, or guilted, or forced into staying.
I know they are desperate for manpower , but at what expense?
JMO

You're kidding, right? IT IS A VOLUNTEER ARMY. He became a Doctor on the Army. Have you heard of Payback? Nothing is for free. He knew fully well his obligations when he got accepted into that program.

Give us a break - making excuses for this guy. It's a Volunteer Army. Don't volunteer if you don't want to be deployed. They send cooks to Iraq and every other core focus job you can think of. They all receive training as Soldiers first.

 

[Texas Mist]

another Ft Hood press conference @ 8pm CT

link to live stream

http://www.myfoxaustin.com/generic/news/live_news/myfoxaustin_livestream_index

 

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

Perhaps it is the children of Fort Hood - those old enough to understand - who are suffering the most.

One woman, who lives on the base, said her eight-year-old son came back from school the day after the shooting. Armed soldiers had been placed at the school gates and he was frightened.

His parents told him it was OK, that the soldiers were there to protect him.

more here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8347940.stm

 

[krazykidz]

life lessons for military and non-military children! they must be told that most soldiers are good and honorable and serve our country with pride. unfortunately, there are a few that have a sickness/disease of mind, thoughts, and soul (or lack thereof) who harm others. thankfully, this is a minority of people in the army and the general population. the multitude of heroic stories about the actions of all helping wounded soldiers should also help the kids

 

[oceanblueeyes]

what senseless destruction this egomaniac caused!!! he was bullied? what, is he 8 like my youngest kid? a psychiatrist without coping skills? again, physician, heal thyself!!

6 out of the 13 of these priceless honorable murdered men and women have been named. i cannot imagine the grief engulfing their families. a couple of them just enlisted last year, one was about 50 and a nurse only wanting to help his fellow soldiers, one wanted to see the world, one was newly pregnant for goodness sake. oh what a shanda

Didn't that come from his family member. I highly doubt he was bullied. I think even the military is afraid to offend any person that may be of Muslim faith due to the touchy nature of the terrorists being Muslim/Islam. This murderer was an Army Major, who was going to bully him? Certainly not an enlisted person of lesser rank and the higher ups knew better. I think it is hogwash.

I just don't believe he was bullied.

I think he is just like the suicide bombers that he thinks are honorable people. Imo, yesterday he became a part of that group he admires.

He reminds me of Hasan Akbar.

imo

 

[krazykidz]

holy moly! did i hear that right? there were approx 300 military and 100 civilians in the area of the shooting (a packed waiting room). evil doc shooter managed to rip over 100 rounds with his 2 guns before being felled. it could have been so so so so so much worse. yikes! that speaks volumes about his calculated intent

 

[oceanblueeyes]

life lessons for military and non-military children! they must be told that most soldiers are good and honorable and serve our country with pride. unfortunately, there are a few that have a sickness/disease of mind, thoughts, and soul (or lack thereof) who harm others. thankfully, this is a minority of people in the army and the general population. the multitude of heroic stories about the actions of all helping wounded soldiers should also help the kids

It is only logical that the military will have the same problems to deal with as the general population does in society. But by far though the numbers of murders are extremely low in the military when compared with our overall homicide rate in this country. Most violent crimes are committed by the public at large and not those in the military. When it does happen it does garner more attention.

These mass shootings happens because the military bases are like full size towns. With Ft. Hood having up to 45,000 troops on it at any given time and that does not count for civilian personnel or family members of the military woman or man which would rise the population up to around 100,000 on Ft. Hood. Most employers do not have this vast amount of workforce on hand in one give area. I believe that the military is the largest employer in the world, iirc.

You are absolutely correct. Most all of these men and women are very dedicated and honorable. These are not the people that just talk the talk about standing up for their country..... they walk the walk in their combat boots each and every day. I admire them for their courage. They weren't drafted and made to sign up. They willingly stepped forward and took their oath to protect us all .....no matter how hard it may be at times.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

holy moly! did i hear that right? there were approx 300 military and 100 civilians in the area of the shooting (a packed waiting room). evil doc shooter managed to rip over 100 rounds with his 2 guns before being felled. it could have been so so so so so much worse. yikes! that speaks volumes about his calculated intent

I doubt there were any MPs around that center at the time either.

So he had time to do great damage until the lady officer got there.

imo

 

[shelbys mimi]

oh, and if it is found that he did write the extremist islamic manifesto on the internet, espoused anti-american views to army veterans and soldier patients (!), filed bogus charges of religious harrassment against fellow docs, and was a known "troublemaker", then heads are gonna roll. of course, that would only be if it is not swept under the rug by our pc crazed media and government....which ironically would be the reason why he was not dishonorably discharged to begin with. ack. he should have been booted out and sued for the money he owed the government if this is so.

this was an evil act that was carefully planned for maximum destruction by a very ideologically radical disturbed @$@$%@!!%$ individual. thank goodness our hero soldiers kept it from being worse than it was. bah

Swept under the rug..Most likely. Here in eastern Ky. Census worker found hanging from a tree,hands bound and the word "Fed" written on his chest.
Authorities dont belive it had anything to do with his job,they think it was a suicide! Guess they used a really big broom to sweep that one under the rug!

 

[SunnieRN]

Sorry, second thoughts about posting something so personal

 

[gitana1]

Umm, yes it is! Have we all forgotten the lesson of 9/11? How about the war? What religious group do the people that are trying to kill our troops belong too? Christians? Maybe Jews? The Buddhists? No, it is 100% a subset of Islam/Muslim.

If you are on a plane, or a crowded area, and someone yells "Allah Akbar", you better get over any political correctness you may have and do something.

You miss my point. Allah Akbar is NOT what crazy or revenge killers yell before killing someone. It's what TERRORISTS yell. I don't think this guy is crazy. I don't think this was about revenge. I think he is a terrorist. And not because he is a Muslim. In fact, he just crapped on his faith and his people with this act. But the whole picture put together, including who he chose to target, where he chose to kill, his apparent views and his yell, "God is great", as if God was guiding or sanctioning his horrific act, shows that he is an extremist committing an act of terrorism and, as many of them do, trying to say his religion justifies it. It doesn't.
I know PTSD and stress is a reality in the military. I just don't buy that either were the cause of this act.
But for those that think political correctness is responsible for this, I disagree. It is not PC to allow Muslims or anyone of any faith or ethnicity into the military. I don't have a problem with that. Just being Muslim or middle eastern does not make one a terrorist. Obviously, though, there should be a screening process and I don't mind if some are examined more closely than others. That's common sense.
But there were huge red flags where this guy was concerned and those were ignored. Why? Because of political correctness? No. It's due to desperation. My cousin in-law died in Afghanistan this year (only 20, first tour of duty, and a sweet, sweet kid) and his brother is on his first tour of duty in Iraq. I know full well how overextended our military is. People like this creep are not screened out simply because the military is desperate for bodies. Plain and simple.

 

[Texas Mist]

Swept under the rug..Most likely. Here in eastern Ky. Census worker found hanging from a tree,hands bound and the word "Fed" written on his chest.
Authorities dont belive it had anything to do with his job,they think it was a suicide! Guess they used a really big broom to sweep that one under the rug!

O/T --

ITA agree about the ginormous broom needed to sweep the death of the census worker under an equally ginormous rug! I read that about the 'suicide' & for a fact, about fell outta my chair. Unbelievable. Not buying that story one bit. :banghead: