Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #1

[Razz]

Boy, I'm not sure what to think. I'd like to hear more from the poster who said all firemen's pensions were in trouble.

If his pension is somehow in trouble, that would shake my world.

And, since we really don't know that his relationship with his wife was great or not (family members are sometimes in denial), that could be enough to.....I don't know, leave or hurt himself. And not wanting to hurt family members more, he chose a way where his death wouldn't be apparent for a while.

I'm not seeing foul play as clear as others. And if there was foul play, I am sure police, by now, know who and why.

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[Chopper2008]

Boy, I'm not sure what to think. I'd like to hear more from the poster who said all firemen's pensions were in trouble.

If his pension is somehow in trouble, that would shake my world.

And, since we really don't know that his relationship with his wife was great or not (family members are sometimes in denial), that could be enough to.....I don't know, leave or hurt himself. And not wanting to hurt family members more, he chose a way where his death wouldn't be apparent for a while.

I'm not seeing foul play as clear as others. And if there was foul play, I am sure police, by now, know who and why.

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I am going to give this a shot and try to explain what I have read through Facebook and watching the news. Basically regarding Police and Firemen's pension they have 2 different pension accounts so to speak. Meaning you have your pension that you get monthly that they are still getting as of now but there is also another side of the pension if you elected to sign up and from what I have read about it is called DROP. So from my understanding when your years of service are done you can withdraw from it.. then I believe the city matches what you put in at retirement time. The longer you wait to sign up for DROP and the longer you are enrolled in it the more money that you accumulate so to speak. Something like that I'm not too familiar with it but I do know there is two sides of the pension. Basically from what I understand the city does not want to pay that out so they can build other things that they think the city "needs"...i.e. bridges etc..there is even talk about a facility that is similar to the Riverwalk in San Antonio they are wanting to build. All of this is what I have read from the pension facebook page and the news.
I hope I didnt confuse you all to much.
My heart is just breaking for this family they need there Papaw. One doesnt just up and vanish.

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[ocgrad]

Boy, I'm not sure what to think. I'd like to hear more from the poster who said all firemen's pensions were in trouble.

If his pension is somehow in trouble, that would shake my world.

And, since we really don't know that his relationship with his wife was great or not (family members are sometimes in denial), that could be enough to.....I don't know, leave or hurt himself. And not wanting to hurt family members more, he chose a way where his death wouldn't be apparent for a while.

I'm not seeing foul play as clear as others. And if there was foul play, I am sure police, by now, know who and why.

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http://www.wfaa.com/news/dallas-police-and-fire-pension-members-may-have-to-pay-back-funds/382652927

It sounds like it could take a percentage of his pension each month but not a great deal and not real soon.

 

[Razz]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/dallas-police-and-fire-pension-members-may-have-to-pay-back-funds/382652927

It sounds like it could take a percentage of his pension each month but not a great deal and not real soon.

Wow! Sounds like a lot of P.O.ed
retirees.

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[Razz]

I am going to give this a shot and try to explain what I have read through Facebook and watching the news. Basically regarding Police and Firemen's pension they have 2 different pension accounts so to speak. Meaning you have your pension that you get monthly that they are still getting as of now but there is also another side of the pension if you elected to sign up and from what I have read about it is called DROP. So from my understanding when your years of service are done you can withdraw from it.. then I believe the city matches what you put in at retirement time. The longer you wait to sign up for DROP and the longer you are enrolled in it the more money that you accumulate so to speak. Something like that I'm not too familiar with it but I do know there is two sides of the pension. Basically from what I understand the city does not want to pay that out so they can build other things that they think the city "needs"...i.e. bridges etc..there is even talk about a facility that is similar to the Riverwalk in San Antonio they are wanting to build. All of this is what I have read from the pension facebook page and the news.
I hope I didnt confuse you all to much.
My heart is just breaking for this family they need there Papaw. One doesnt just up and vanish.

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Check out the article above. I think the retirees were promised more than the funds could provide. They were being guaranteed 8 to 10%
on the drop accounts! Sounds like there was some very bad planning along the way.

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[Razz]

I wonder if Pawpa was on any of the boards in determining their ultimate pension?

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[Chopper2008]

Check out the article above. I think the retirees were promised more than the funds could provide. They were being guaranteed 8 to 10%
on the drop accounts! Sounds like there was some very bad planning along the way.

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Exactly! The city doesn't want to pay it after what has been promised and signed for at the time of enrollment. They're not even being given there annual Merit raises I read also.

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[Razz]

Exactly! The city doesn't want to pay it after what has been promised and signed for at the time of enrollment. They're not even being given there annual Merit raises I read also.

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But a guarantee of 8 to 10% return on their drop accounts sounds unreasonable in today's world.
I'd be doing alright in America if I could make 8 or 10% every year
on my money. Too bad for the city they didn't plan on such fluctuating rates. They should. No wonder so many retirees are pulling their drop accounts now. And because of that, it may bankrupt the Fund. (or that's how I'm interpreting it). A lot of people have gotten the screws put to their retirement pensions from what was promised to what actually is. I remember those good old days in the early to mid 80's when CDs were making at least 18%. Conversely, mortgage rates were high too.

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[Chopper2008]

But a guarantee of 8 to 10% return on their drop accounts sounds unreasonable in today's world.
I'd be doing alright in America if I could make 8 or 10% every year
on my money. Too bad for the city they didn't plan on such fluctuating rates. They should. No wonder so many retirees are pulling their drop accounts now. And because of that, it may bankrupt the Fund. (or that's how I'm interpreting it). A lot of people have gotten the screws put to their retirement pensions from what was promised to what actually is. I remember those good old days in the early to mid 80's when CDs were making at least 18%. Conversely, mortgage rates were high too.

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Very true. Lots of people have already taken their drop money out but not in a couple of months because like I said I have read that there is a complete freeze on it. Nobody can get anything out until this is resolved or shall I say "if" it gets resolved.

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[Razz]

I was thinking about the pets. I believe they were dogs. I know when I go outside I'll take them with me or they are very near where they can see me while I'm working in the yard.

So, I wonder if MC had his dogs with him while working in the shed? And if he normally does that, were they back in the house or in a pen when BC got home?

Depending on the dog, they might put up a fuss if an unknown person comes on the property. I had a lab that would get upset if I raised my voice and if my boys fought, she'd get right in the middle.

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[SavetheQueen]

Why would anyone let him take his phone?

Hmmm. That's actually a really good question.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[ocgrad]

Check out the article above. I think the retirees were promised more than the funds could provide. They were being guaranteed 8 to 10%
on the drop accounts! Sounds like there was some very bad planning along the way.

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Promised too much, coupled with bad investments that did not build the fund as expected. Other agencies were not given any interest in their Drop. At least one agreed to reduce or eliminate interest when it became clear the fund could not keep up but the police and fire would not agree to that. A large number of employees were working after retirement and their Drop accts were growing pretty good, when it became critical, they almost all at once or within about the last 6 months of 2016 retired and withdrew their Drop accounts. That pushed it over the edge so the mayor had to step in and freeze it.

 

[SavetheQueen]

Respectfully snipped and bolded by me for focus

One area of concern for me is Lake Tawakoni, which appears to be barely a mile or so from the home to the east . The granddaughter said LE had a drone check shorelines of the lake, and that the game warden was looking at it, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tawakoni

*Respectfully snipped.*

Once a body sinks on its own, it takes a bit for it to resurface, also on its own. It may be worth another aerial search around bodies of water.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[Razz]

Why would anyone let him take his phone?

Well, thats the thing.

GD said he always kept it in his pocket so he could respond in a timely manner and in the shed itself.

So either a perp didn't know or Pawpa didn't care.

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[SavetheQueen]

I am going to give this a shot and try to explain what I have read through Facebook and watching the news. Basically regarding Police and Firemen's pension they have 2 different pension accounts so to speak. Meaning you have your pension that you get monthly that they are still getting as of now but there is also another side of the pension if you elected to sign up and from what I have read about it is called DROP. So from my understanding when your years of service are done you can withdraw from it.. then I believe the city matches what you put in at retirement time. The longer you wait to sign up for DROP and the longer you are enrolled in it the more money that you accumulate so to speak. Something like that I'm not too familiar with it but I do know there is two sides of the pension. Basically from what I understand the city does not want to pay that out so they can build other things that they think the city "needs"...i.e. bridges etc..there is even talk about a facility that is similar to the Riverwalk in San Antonio they are wanting to build. All of this is what I have read from the pension facebook page and the news.
I hope I didnt confuse you all to much.
My heart is just breaking for this family they need there Papaw. One doesnt just up and vanish.

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I would be LIVID. I could see letting the matching go as a compromise if the city was destitute, but somebody would be paying me the money that I had personally paid in from both accounts. And we all know that Dallas is far from broke.


*All statements are that of my own opinion unless otherwise specified.*

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

I would be LIVID. I could see letting the matching go as a compromise if the city was destitute, but somebody would be paying me the money that I had personally paid in from both accounts.

Oh yeah. There will be lawsuits, and those will need to wind through the courts before anything is finalized.

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[Razz]

Well, I am sad to say no new news, here or on the BringPawpaBackHome FB page.

I suspect they are keeping some comments private.

I do wish pmerle001 would come back. The talk here has probably gotten a bit tough to take right now.

It is my hope that Pawpa is taking a "thinking break" with no distractions.




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[inmyhumbleopinion]

Well, thats the thing.

GD said he always kept it in his pocket so he could respond in a timely manner and in the shed itself.

So either a perp didn't know or Pawpa didn't care.

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Or a perp was familiar enough with Papaw's habits and routine, and knew Papaw would most likely have his phone on his person, so they made sure to turn it off as soon as they had the opportunity to do so, and then:
1. Discard it at a location where it most likely wouldn't be found (e.g., a body of water), and they could do so either without being seen (e.g., taking a boat on Lake Tawakoni; at least two public access boat ramps within a 20-minute drive from the Chambers home; weekday; no precipitation with a high of 77F in Greenville on Mar. 10)
http://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/tawakoni/access2.phtml#areab
https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d32.90492!4d-95.99871
https://www.wunderground.com/histor....zip=75474&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999&MR=1

3.Or at a location where if someone happened upon them, no one would be suspicious of them for being there (e.g., a popular hunting spot, a random gas station, where they could just throw it in the trash, etc.)
http://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/regs/counties/hunt

Or Papaw was intending to harm himself and didn't want to be found quickly, so he shut it off either before he left the property or as soon he remembered to (even though I continue to believe that is not what happened, not only because I'm just not getting that vibe, but also based on some of the evidence discovered).

Regarding the phone, one thing I found curious -and makes me somewhat hopeful- is how the Sheriff reacted to reporters' questions about it, and his answers at the press conference (starting around the 10:05 mark in the video at the link; second video from the bottom: "Raw Video: News Conference on Missing Fighter"):
A reporter asks "The ping of the phone didn't get you anything?"
Sheriff answers "No sir, no sir."
A different reporter asks "Did it ping at all, or ...?"
Sheriff: "It did, it did. I'm not, I'm not allowed to elaborate on that 'cos it's part of our investigation, but it did ... a couple of places, but [lets out a sigh] we followed up on those, and nothing."
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/My...-Community-Investigators-416170523.html?t=604

Hopefully, it did get them something and they are keeping it close to the vest.

I'm assuming that the "Find My iPhone" feature, as well as all apps with GPS access on Papaw's phone were disabled at the time of his disappearance.

 

[Razz]

Or a perp was familiar enough with Papaw's habits and routine, and knew Papaw would most likely have his phone on his person, so they made sure to turn it off as soon as they had the opportunity to do so, and then:
1. Discard it at a location where it most likely wouldn't be found (e.g., a body of water), and they could do so either without being seen (e.g., taking a boat on Lake Tawakoni; at least two public access boat ramps within a 20-minute drive from the Chambers home; weekday; no precipitation with a high of 77F in Greenville on Mar. 10)
http://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/tawakoni/access2.phtml#areab
https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d32.90492!4d-95.99871
https://www.wunderground.com/histor....zip=75474&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999&MR=1

3.Or at a location where if someone happened upon them, no one would be suspicious of them for being there (e.g., a popular hunting spot, a random gas station, where they could just throw it in the trash, etc.)
http://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/regs/counties/hunt

Or Papaw was intending to harm himself and didn't want to be found quickly, so he shut it off either before he left the property or as soon he remembered to (even though I continue to believe that is not what happened, not only because I'm just not getting that vibe, but also based on some of the evidence discovered).

Regarding the phone, one thing I found curious -and makes me somewhat hopeful- is how the Sheriff reacted to reporters' questions about it, and his answers at the press conference (starting around the 10:05 mark in the video at the link; second video from the bottom: "Raw Video: News Conference on Missing Fighter"):
A reporter asks "The ping of the phone didn't get you anything?"
Sheriff answers "No sir, no sir."
A different reporter asks "Did it ping at all, or ...?"
Sheriff: "It did, it did. I'm not, I'm not allowed to elaborate on that 'cos it's part of our investigation, but it did ... a couple of places, but [lets out a sigh] we followed up on those, and nothing."
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/My...-Community-Investigators-416170523.html?t=604

Hopefully, it did get them something and they are keeping it close to the vest.

I'm assuming that the "Find My iPhone" feature, as well as all apps with GPS access on Papaw's phone were disabled at the time of his disappearance.

That's part of what makes me hinky
about the Sheriff. I hope he's not too close to the investigation. I just don't want him to discard things that he doesn't believe to be true.

What evidence points you in the direction of MC' s disappearance and why?

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[Pmerle00]

This is what I'm having a hard time with. Why would someone go into the shed, hurt Pawpa, take out his ID and take what little money was left, take Pawpa and lock up behind them and turn off the lights all without leaving fingerprints? If it was a perp(s) it sounds as though they were being very careful with every aspect and it sounds premeditated.

Now I'm sorry but I need to ask this. Did Pawpa have a life insurance policy? Who gets the house? Who will get the cars. The only thing is.....
if this is in play, they'll need to find a body first.

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No life insurance policy, they are relying on the pension set up to keep either of them going in the event of a death. They do have a Will, but as you stated, unless he is confirmed deceased, it doesn't matter... So if that was the motive, you would think the perp would have made sure the body would be found. :-(