Found Deceased TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #3

[Quiet Time]

I really hope she was trying to be sarcastic,because hmmmm

I know, that's one way I was trying to look at her comment too....
Then I thought, IF this is the mentality of all the Air Force, etc...then everyone should be worried.
jmo.

 

[Laughing]

BS's remarks say so much about military culture that you'd need a year to unpack it.

IMHO, BS's remarks -- relate to her initials.

Siding with Boxer on this one.

Vanessa Guillen came to the US Army with a work ethic & family support. I am happy to know that there are enlisted members of our armed forces like her, and I hope that my elected representatives will support the military in supporting members like Vanessa & purging those like BS.

Does the BS topic need a thread of it's own? Possibly a distraction from Vanessa Guillen's patriotism.

JMHO YMMV LRR

 

[gliving]

What was AR's MOS? ty

 

[medea13]

I have kept up with Vanessa's case this whole time. I, for one, do not believe ANY of this narrative. It makes absolutely no sense. How could someone who was not her superior call her into work and kill her? NO. He is the scapegoat. And now conveniently he's dead. at his own hand. SUPPOSEDLY, right?
But i digress - come on - if we are to believe the army or cid or whoever was so inept to bungle this 'investigation' so bad the way they SAID THEY DID then why would ANYONE ever believe any detail they give up? I call bull*%$ someone major has to have known and orchestrated this or it could never have happened. i believe vanessa guillen. I want the real people responsible for her death brought to justice not just the pawns in the game

 

[Seattle1]

Say, this individual is right in line with the Duggars' denominational teaching about sexual assault:

Chilling Proof That the Duggars' Homeschool Program Blames Victims for Sexual Assault


This is 2020. We're 1/5th of the way through The New Millenium.

Dear God, how do people accept this???

Not just an officer, a female officer.

Her employer's statement makes this even worse -- if that's possible. Taxpayer funded University of Wisconsin apparently considers supporting criminal sexual assault to be a First Amendment right:

University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee released a statement

I did share our concern with RAINN:

RAINN | The nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization

JMHO YMMV LRR

Edited to add the University's strange claim, and RAINN's address.

So the UW-Milwaukee stands in solidarity with those opposed to violence against women, including those serving in the military, and does not condone the comments made by Betsy Schoeller but thinks it's a First Amendment issue and can't regulate the private speech of its employees?

Hmmm, what exactly does an employee of UW-Milwaukee have to say privately on a public/open platform that will get the University's attention?

Seriously, the woman is a Lt. Col and that's the best response you can come up with!!

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Vanessa Guillen Case Archive:
Vanessa Guillen -TX- by amanda reckonwith

Cell phone users may have trouble with that link, so try this and scroll:
Dead souls. Cecily Brown Aguilar and Aaron David Robinson

 

[Boxer]

Army in full damge control. They send a 2 star out who doesn't look like he could handle a salad bar line in a junior high school, who then MISTATES Vanessa's rank as Specialist, an e-4.

That changes the case to e4 to e4 violence.
MOO, a craven and calculated "error" by that 2 star that changes the violence from superior to subordinate to peer to peer.

MOO dig in and get the congress way up in the Ft. hood amd CID's stuff.

MOO it would be nice to see that two star busted to private so he could see for himself how just about every military unit in the Army works.

MOO Unless AR had acting jack stripes, AR isn't the harassing sergeant cited by VG, he is another harasser altogether.
MOO ARs harrassment turned murderer when thwarted.

 

[rkendmar]

Female Air Force Lt. Col. suggests murdered soldier Vanessa Guillen DESERVED to be sexually harassed | Daily Mail Online

Air Force Lt. Col. Betsy Schoeller made the shocking comments on a Facebook thread where another person had shared an article about the missing soldier being bludgeoned to death shortly after telling family and friends she was being sexually harassed by a superior.

Schoeller, who is now a senior lecturer at University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, hit out at other social media users who expressed sympathy for Guillen.

'You guys are kidding, right? Sexual harassment is the price of admission for women into the good ole boy club,' the military veteran wrote.

'If you're gonna cry like a snowflake about it, you're gonna pay the price.'


Schoeller's comments came just hours after the attorney for Guillen's devastated family released information that the 20-year-old Fort Hood soldier had been bludgeoned to death with a hammer in the armory room where she worked.

Her post, which has since been deleted, sparked outrage from other social media users and a Change.org petition is demanding she be fired from her position at the University of Wisconsin.

Just my take on Schoeller's comments:

IMO she is saying that in military culture ("good ole boy club") in order for a woman to get ahead she has to face reality and know she will be sexually harassed and also know she will need to keep her mouth shut about it.
Her opinion is that accepting harassment and keeping silent about it is the "price" that a woman pays to succeed in the military.

It appears that this may be the ugly truth for women in the military.

MOO.

 

[Cryptic]

It makes absolutely no sense. How could someone who was not her superior call her into work and kill her?

As another poster with military experience related, ranking supply staff have the authority to call in anybody in the unit to account for sensitive supply items such as weapons.

The rank of the supply soldier, the rank of the other soldier, or the position of the other soldier in the over all chain of command do not matter. A summons by supply staff pursuant to sensitive item accountability carries the weight of an order from the unit commander.

The victim was a small arms repairer. My guess is that she was called, possibly by a ruse, to help account for a weapon. The ruse could have been along the lines of:

- "An inventory revealed that a weapon is unaccounted for in the armory. You need to come in and account for the weapons that are under repair in your shop".

Likewise, supply staff have been known not to accept another soldier's word that the sensitive item is either with them, secured in another storage area etc. Rather, they can order the item brought to them, or if not practical, go themselves to the other location and verify it.

My guess is that their ability toe enter other work areas in pursuit of weapons accountability is also very broad. Thus, after the victim arrived and accounted for the weapon, the perpetrator might have said something like:

- "Ok, I am coming over to verify that you have that weapon. Stay put until I get there."

 

[Lillymac]

I may have missed it, but I'm wondering if drugs have been mentioned in any of the discussions or media reports? The violent murder and subsequent desecration screams drug induced rage and mental out if control breakdown. It wasn't just a murder it was pure horror!!!

 

[Ozoner]

Army in full damge control. Theybsend a 2 star outnwhondownt look lukenhe could handle tue salad bar line in a junior high school who MISTATES Vanessa's rank as Specialist, an e-4.
That changes the case to e4 to e4 violence.
MOO, a craven and calculated "error" that changes the violence from superior to subordinate to peer to peer.

Dig in and get the congress way up in their stuff.
MOO it would be nice to see that two star busted to private so he could see for himself how just about every military unit in the Army works.

MOO Unless AR had acting jack stripes, Robinson isn't the harassing sergeant coted by VG, he is another harasser and turned murderer.

Vanessa said the harassers were like a gang, so that makes me think that there were at least three of them. ADR may have been the main one.
-
We may never know because even though keeping a close watch on ADR and keeping him away from guns was CID's highest priority, he nevertheless managed to slip away and off himself. I'm sure the CID brass and Ft. Hood brass are very upset about the lost opportunity to put him on trial.

 

[Seattle1]

Army in full damge control. They send a 2 star out who doesn't look like he could handle a salad bar line in a junior high school, who then MISTATES Vanessa's rank as Specialist, an e-4.

That changes the case to e4 to e4 violence.
MOO, a craven and calculated "error" by that 2 star that changes the violence from superior to subordinate to peer to peer.

MOO dig in and get the congress way up in the Ft. hood amd CID's stuff.

MOO it would be nice to see that two star busted to private so he could see for himself how just about every military unit in the Army works.

MOO Unless AR had acting jack stripes, AR isn't the harassing sergeant cited by VG, he is another harasser altogether.
MOO ARs harrassment turned murderer when thwarted.

Announcement was made at the presser that VG was promoted on July 1, 2020

Due to her time in service, Vanessa Guillen was promoted to specialist on July 1, 2020.

Missing Fort Hood soldier Vanessa Guillen promoted to specialist during disappearance

 

[Seattle1]

Shout out to all the mural talent in the Houston area showing their support for VG and her family. I had no idea. My Respect.

 

[Texas68W]

Yes, I absolutely think you're right on all accounts. My thinking with the car also relates to how the following investigation was handled.

If they know she was last seen in the parking lot on Old Ironsides Avenue across from the armories, would they not check surveillance cameras from the buildings that point to the parking lot? Wouldn't they also then see AR apparently loading his vehicle with the Pelican box? With the car specifically, if her Jeep was still parked in the parking lot after she went missing, that's a clear indicator that something went wrong and she probably never left the base alive/conscious.

MOO

There are no cameras on the 3CR squadron buildings that line 16th street, Old Ironsides, or Hell on Wheels. The motor pools on the other side of the one-ways also are without cameras, so, there would be no surveillance cameras to check. Your last point makes sense, but is already in-line with the affidavit that was filed, wherein the FBI agent says that CID was notified she had been reported missing by her unit on 23 APR 20.

Army in full damge control. They send a 2 star out who doesn't look like he could handle a salad bar line in a junior high school, who then MISTATES Vanessa's rank as Specialist, an e-4.

That changes the case to e4 to e4 violence.
MOO, a craven and calculated "error" by that 2 star that changes the violence from superior to subordinate to peer to peer.

This is not to sound condescending or rude, but your anger and opinions are misguided. VG's rank was not misstated, as she was promoted to E4 (SPC) the morning of 1 JUL 20, before the press conference was held.

There was no"craven and calculated 'error' by that 2 star," nor an attempt to make it peer-to-peer violence; she was promoted to SPC for meeting TIS requirements, simple as that.

This is a heinous crime, undoubtedly, but when misinformation is spread because a person is blinded by anger and outrage, it makes things harder on everyone. If you were to post that same message on social media, hundreds of people would likely take it as a fact then spread it on their pages; now you have a mob of people who think this is evidence that the Army is trying to cover something up, when actuality, the original statement is based on not knowing the true fact that she was promoted.

 

[rkendmar]

Vanessa said the harassers were like a gang, so that makes me think that there were at least three of them. ADR may have been the main one.
-
We may never know because even though keeping a close watch on ADR and keeping him away from guns was CID's highest priority, he nevertheless managed to slip away and off himself. I'm sure the CID brass and Ft. Hood brass are very upset about the lost opportunity to put him on trial.

BBM

JMO, with AR out of the picture this case turns into AR killing VG with CA helping AR dispose of the body after the fact.
No messy sexual harassment or involvement of higher ranking personnel will be part of this case.
Call me jaded but IMO the higher ups may be breathing a sigh of relief since AR's suicide solves a lot of 'problems'.

MOO.

 

[cryptomnesia]

What was AR's MOS? ty

Combat Engineer - 12B

 

[Peach Pie]

I just tried to quote a bunch of posts but lost them somehow... Anyway, my two coppers on a few recent posts:

- I believe VG's white Jeep remained where she left it upon going in to work. I don't think it was ever missing.

- I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this btw) it's been established that AR was NOT the one who called VG in to work that day.

- I don't think that earlier two star guy from the Army was saying or implying that AR's fatal attack on VG could not be considered to include harassment. He was saying that their findings are that AR was not the individual who was harassing VG earlier. So, it could be they've already identified that other individual. Or not...

- It's been mentioned earlier that CA had a child. But I think she really had just listed herself as the "parent" of a dog or cat on one of her social media accounts. Correct?

- @Lillymac - Good point about the possibly of drugs being involved in this somehow. I haven't heard anything about it so far but then there's a lot we don't know yet.

 

[MsBetsy]

Just my take on Schoeller's comments:

IMO she is saying that in military culture ("good ole boy club") in order for a woman to get ahead she has to face reality and know she will be sexually harassed and also know she will need to keep her mouth shut about it.
Her opinion is that accepting harassment and keeping silent about it is the "price" that a woman pays to succeed in the military.

It appears that this may be the ugly truth for women in the military.

MOO.

She also seems to be saying that it's normal and expected that if you "cry like a snowflake about it," you will have to pay the price.

What's really disturbing is that she is surprised people would make such a big deal about a twenty year old soldier being brutally murdered and dismembered since she 'should' have accepted it and stayed silent.

 

[TGIRecovered]

Female Air Force Lt. Col. suggests murdered soldier Vanessa Guillen DESERVED to be sexually harassed | Daily Mail Online

Air Force Lt. Col. Betsy Schoeller made the shocking comments on a Facebook thread where another person had shared an article about the missing soldier being bludgeoned to death shortly after telling family and friends she was being sexually harassed by a superior.

Schoeller, who is now a senior lecturer at University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, hit out at other social media users who expressed sympathy for Guillen.

'You guys are kidding, right? Sexual harassment is the price of admission for women into the good ole boy club,' the military veteran wrote.

'If you're gonna cry like a snowflake about it, you're gonna pay the price.'


Schoeller's comments came just hours after the attorney for Guillen's devastated family released information that the 20-year-old Fort Hood soldier had been bludgeoned to death with a hammer in the armory room where she worked.

Her post, which has since been deleted, sparked outrage from other social media users and a Change.org petition is demanding she be fired from her position at the University of Wisconsin.

Air Force Lt. Col. Betsy Schoeller’s FB comment comes from a place of hatred toward women. The poor woman hates her own gender! I would wager this woman has seen violence against women being normalized in her own life from the day she was born. Seriously, that’s how indoctrinated she sounds. MOO

I’m not an expert and I’m not making excuses for her. I’m just trying to wrap my mind around how an intelligent, professional woman could actually condone the blatant belittling and abuse of women. MOO

 

[Boxer]

Just my take on Schoeller's comments:

IMO she is saying that in military culture ("good ole boy club") in order for a woman to get ahead she has to face reality and know she will be sexually harassed and also know she will need to keep her mouth shut about it.
Her opinion is that accepting harassment and keeping silent about it is the "price" that a woman pays to succeed in the military.

It appears that this may be the ugly truth for women in the military.

MOO.

MOO VG and this half colonel are not equivalent.

An officer in the better educated Air Force enjoys so much more baseline protection than VG would ever have in the ground pounding Army.

MOO BS is an unconsciously priviliged individial, simply comparing heself to another less fortunate person to make herself feel important.

MOO Actually has nothing to do with being a woman or sexual harassment its just bad character and pure gloating.