Found Deceased TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #3

[Boxer]

I mean, your first post stated quite clearly they only got location data after they searched the river site. This is untrue and the reverse of what happened. You then asked what changed after they searched the river (presumably to be able to get a warrant for geolocation data). Nothing changed because they already had the data. They got location data after individuals implicated him in the murder and there were calls between him and CA during the time period he said he was at her apartment that night. They searched the river site because of the location data they were able to obtain that put him at the river site. They didn’t find anything the first time they searched, but remains were recovered the second. As I said previously, they didn’t get location data because they searched the river site. They already had location data and searched the river site because of that data.

Eqquaearch found the place the had the fire and parts off the pelican box. Then some days later a man fixing a fence reported the smell of decomp.

 

[m00c0w]

Eqquaearch found the place the had the fire and parts off the pelican box. Then some days later a man fixing a fence reported the smell of decomp.

I have not seen any source that says Equusearch found the burn area and pelican box. They found some items in the river. CID and other LE found the pelican box and burn site on 6/21, seemingly well before Equusearch got involved in that area. Equusearch also states the reason they were even in the area was because of investigators:

The group had called off a search Thursday after founder Tim Miller said they searched everywhere that was "significant." They returned to Killeen Friday after receiving new information from investigators.

Texas EquuSearch resumes search for soldier from Houston

 

[MsBetsy]

Eqquaearch found the place the had the fire and parts off the pelican box. Then some days later a man fixing a fence reported the smell of decomp.

Yes, TM said they searched there based on information they received from investigators, which likely included the cell phone data. That's probably why he said he thought the phone may have been tossed in or near the river.

He also said that when he showed the investigator who came to the scene the melted lid, the investigator told him he didn't think it had any relevance to the case. He said they had to show him pictures of the case to convince him it was a piece of the lid.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I have not seen any source that says Equusearch found the burn area and pelican box. They found some items in the river. CID and other LE found the pelican box and burn site on 6/21, seemingly well before Equusearch got involved in that area. Equusearch also states the reason they were even in the area was because of investigators:


Texas EquuSearch resumes search for soldier from Houston

It was Tim Miller who said his search team found the burn site and the melted lid. He said that CID was not interested in the lid and thought that it was irrelevant. He also said they botched the investigation horribly, or something along those lines.

But that's just his opinion since he was there and he was communicating and working directly with them from the beginning.

 

[m00c0w]

It was Tim Miller who said his search team found the burn site and the melted lid. He said that CID was not interested in the lid and thought that it was irrelevant. He also said they botched the investigation horribly, or something along those lines.

But that's just his opinion since he was there and he was communicating and working directly with them from the beginning.

I’m not sure what Mr. Miller thinks he knows, but I highly doubt an independent FBI agent with no axe to grind here would perjure himself in federal court...



I am more willing to believe that Mr. Miller was being purposefully excluded from the investigation. I’m listening to his interview on Nancy Grace and he uses “we” very liberally. He says “we” got a witness that saw someone loading up a pelican case, and “we” were able to then get a search warrant for phone records. EquuSearch is not getting search warrants for anything. I do not find him to be a credible witness at this point.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

This lands randomly, but... the case that brought me to WS (from FFJ) was JonBenet who suffered a horrific skull fracture that did not break the skin and, therefore, didn't bleed.

It seems possible that VG could have been killed or mortally wounded by AR in the armory, then further beaten - causing the severe damage to her face & teeth - by AR & CA at the burial site (either postmortem or possibly, as some have theorized, as she clung to life after the initial blow & transport). Maybe the armory was never covered/splashed with blood and no extensive clean up by AR was needed. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

Here is the sequence:


Items found in river could be linked to missing Fort Hood soldier, Vanessa Guillen

Then:
Texas EquuSearch suspends search for Fort Hood soldier Vanessa Guillen after ‘partial human remains’ found near Texas river

“We found evidence last week in the area near the shallow grave that the remains were found in,” said Tim Miller with Texas EquuSearch. “We do believe that the remains are hers.”

“Firm believer God had a hand in something on this and wanted her found,” Miller said.

He said his team was at the location a couple of days ago and, after finding what they believed to be evidence, planned to return there on Wednesday.

“Little did we know, there were times we were probably standing on top of her,” Miller said.

He said his team was at the location a couple of days ago and, after finding what they believed to be evidence, planned to return there on Wednesday."

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m not sure what Mr. Miller thinks he knows, but I highly doubt an independent FBI agent with no axe to grind here would perjure himself in federal court...

View attachment 254736

I am more willing to believe that Mr. Miller was being purposefully excluded from the investigation. I’m listening to his interview on Nancy Grace and he uses “we” very liberally. He says “we” got a witness that saw someone loading up a pelican case, and “we” were able to then get a search warrant for phone records. EquuSearch is not getting search warrants for anything. I do not find him to be a credible witness at this point.

It was EquuSearch who searched the area based on information they received from investigators. TM made a statement the day they found items he believed were connected to the case. That was apparently when they found the burn site and the melted lid but didn't find her body.

It wasn't until later that he did the interview with Nancy Grace and said the investigator didn't think the lid was relevant to the case. Why would he be untruthful? He was just expressing his opinion about how the family was treated by the army and about how the investigation was handled.

He probably said "we" because he works with the FBI and they share information with him. I don't think he meant that he was part of getting the search warrant himself.

Imo

 

[Hatfield]

This lands randomly, but... the case that brought me to WS (from FFJ) was JonBenet who suffered a horrific skull fracture that did not break the skin and, therefore, didn't bleed.

It seems possible that VG could have been killed or mortally wounded by AR in the armory, then further beaten - causing the severe damage to her face & teeth - by AR & CA at the burial site (either postmortem or possibly, as some have theorized, as she clung to life after the initial blow & transport). Maybe the armory was never covered/splashed with blood and no extensive clean up by AR was needed. JMO.

JMO
I think that may be what happened too. An initial blow to her head in the Armory area itself and then she is moved to the river area where they tried to destroy evidence by beating her teeth out and other things.

I have flip-flopped with the other thoery that one or both of them were waiting for her while she jogged by if they knew her jogging route.

Both seem possible and it depends on if any evidence of a struggle or blood evidence in the armory area.

 

[Boxer]

I’m not sure what Mr. Miller thinks he knows, but I highly doubt an independent FBI agent with no axe to grind here would perjure himself in federal court...

View attachment 254736

I am more willing to believe that Mr. Miller was being purposefully excluded from the investigation. I’m listening to his interview on Nancy Grace and he uses “we” very liberally. He says “we” got a witness that saw someone loading up a pelican case, and “we” were able to then get a search warrant for phone records. EquuSearch is not getting search warrants for anything. I do not find him to be a credible witness at this point.

What Mr. Miller knows about police procedure vs. practice is something everyone needs to pray they never have to know.

I’m not sure what Mr. Miller thinks he knows, but I highly doubt an independent FBI agent with no axe to grind here would perjure himself in federal court...

View attachment 254736

I am more willing to believe that Mr. Miller was being purposefully excluded from the investigation. I’m listening to his interview on Nancy Grace and he uses “we” very liberally. He says “we” got a witness that saw someone loading up a pelican case, and “we” were able to then get a search warrant for phone records. EquuSearch is not getting search warrants for anything. I do not find him to be a credible witness at this point.

Equusearch found the Pelican case pieces.

MOO CID puposefully excluded FBI and its excellent evidence team.
That's a natural agency rivalry.
BUT ... They can't live up to their ideal.
For example, they lost their prime suspect. They were forced to issue a BOLO for AR to the surrounding civilian police agencies.

The Post Mortem:
More training for CID agents. (Add 5 more weeks to match FBI training)
More consequences for sloppy work.

 

[Hatfield]

What Mr. Miller knows about police procedure vs. practice is something everyone needs to pray they never have to know.


Equusearch found the Pelican case pieces.

MOO CID puposefully excluded FBI and its excellent evidence team.
That's a natural agency rivalry.
BUT ... They can't live up to their ideal.
For example, they lost their prime suspect. They were forced to issue a BOLO for AR to the surrounding civilian police agencies.

The Post Mortem:
More training for CID agents. (Add 5 more weeks to match FBI training)
More consequences for sloppy work.

JMO
Im still trying to understand the latest news.

I tend to agree that inter-department bias between civilian and military investigators may have played a part in the beginning investigation of this case.

The famous movie line from Jack Nicholson comes to mind. "You cant handle the truth!"

I am not sure where the breakdown happened in the initial investigation to allow AR to meet with the family. That is incredibly ridiculous that a prime suspect was allowed to meet with the family. The family is lucky one of them was not killed too.

 

[oviedo]

JMO
Im still trying to understand the latest news.

I tend to agree that inter-department bias between civilian and military investigators may have played a part in the beginning investigation of this case.

The famous movie line from Jack Nicholson comes to mind. "You cant handle the truth!"

I am not sure where the breakdown happened in the initial investigation to allow AR to meet with the family. That is incredibly ridiculous that a prime suspect was allowed to meet with the family. The family is lucky one of them was not killed too.

snipped
When I first went up to that base, that subject, I met him, not knowing that he had something to do with it. I felt something was telling me that he did something, and I wasn't wrong apparently," Mayra Guillen said. "And apparently now, he kills himself. Why? I don't know."
"But whoever is responsible has to pay, and we demand a congressional investigation," she added.
This came just hours after investigators discovered on Tuesday the partial remains of a body near the Leon River in rural Bell County, where Killeen is located.
Pfc. Vanessa Guillen bludgeoned to death on Army base, family attorney says - CNN
--------------
It sounds as if she was allowed on base but someone had to facilitate her meeting with him right? It's a big base - I'd like to know more about how this came about.
JMO

 

[m00c0w]

It was EquuSearch who searched the area based on information they received from investigators. TM made a statement the day they found items he believed were connected to the case. That was apparently when they found the burn site and the melted lid but didn't find her body.

It wasn't until later that he did the interview with Nancy Grace and said the investigator didn't think the lid was relevant to the case. Why would he be untruthful? He was just expressing his opinion about how the family was treated by the army and about how the investigation was handled.

He probably said "we" because he works with the FBI and they share information with him. I don't think he meant that he was part of getting the search warrant himself.

Imo

I don’t think he’s untruthful as much as exaggerating the story (which the “we” usage also indicates). EquuSearch searched the area along with CID, FBI, Texas Rangers, and the Sheriff’s Office. The narrative being painted is that EquuSearch found everything and basically did the police’s work for them; that does not appear to be the case.

What Mr. Miller knows about police procedure vs. practice is something everyone needs to pray they never have to know.


Equusearch found the Pelican case pieces.

MOO CID puposefully excluded FBI and its excellent evidence team.
That's a natural agency rivalry.
BUT ... They can't live up to their ideal.
For example, they lost their prime suspect. They were forced to issue a BOLO for AR to the surrounding civilian police agencies.

The Post Mortem:
More training for CID agents. (Add 5 more weeks to match FBI training)
More consequences for sloppy work.

CID was the agency with primary jurisdiction, since it concerned an Army soldier missing from an Army base. FBI was present on the site when the body was found. It doesn’t appear any investigative bodies were excluded from relevant information, and the timeline presented in the FBI’s affidavit seems to reflect this. One could even argue the main reason their main suspect fled was exactly because EquuSearch and others were releasing way too much information to the public, to the detriment of the case.

 

[Boxer]

I don’t think he’s untruthful as much as exaggerating the story (which the “we” usage also indicates). EquuSearch searched the area along with CID, FBI, Texas Rangers, and the Sheriff’s Office. The narrative being painted is that EquuSearch found everything and basically did the police’s work for them; that does not appear to be the case.


CID was the agency with primary jurisdiction, since it concerned an Army soldier missing from an Army base. FBI was present on the site when the body was found. It doesn’t appear any investigative bodies were excluded from relevant information, and the timeline presented in the FBI’s affidavit seems to reflect this. One could even argue the main reason their main suspect fled was exactly because EquuSearch and others were releasing way too much information to the public, to the detriment of the case.

The main suspect walked put of the MP building.

 

[m00c0w]

The main suspect walked put of the MP building.

The main suspect walked out of his barracks. The reason he walked out is likely because people like Mr. Miller were announcing to the world that they just found remains.

 

[Boxer]

I don’t think he’s untruthful as much as exaggerating the story (which the “we” usage also indicates). EquuSearch searched the area along with CID, FBI, Texas Rangers, and the Sheriff’s Office. The narrative being painted is that EquuSearch found everything and basically did the police’s work for them; that does not appear to be the case.


CID was the agency with primary jurisdiction, since it concerned an Army soldier missing from an Army base. FBI was present on the site when the body was found. It doesn’t appear any investigative bodies were excluded from relevant information, and the timeline presented in the FBI’s affidavit seems to reflect this. One could even argue the main reason their main suspect fled was exactly because EquuSearch and others were releasing way too much information to the public, to the detriment of the case.

MOO. Disagree on that. CID criticizing Miller helps take the focus off the selves. A time honored tactic.
Muller has said, every search area is based in investigation information.

 

[CronesEye]

Perhaps you should read the link in my post, which right now is #512. The army has nothing of which to be ashamed or embarrassed. Let them do an investigation. I'd like to believe the article I read was accurate. Just because the info wasn't shared here doesn't mean the army wasn't up on the investigation.
She left her things in her armory, (or did she?) and he killed her in his armory. If he was known to be harassing her, he was not a superior, she didn't have to take orders from him, he should have been reported. If he was harassing her, why did she go to his work place? She apparently had no idea how dangerous he was. This makes no sense.

" If he was known to be harassing her, he was not a superior, she didn't have to take orders from him, he should have been reported. If he was harassing her, why did she go to his work place? "
The last correspondence on Vanessa's phone was from AR. AR requested work per a weapon's serial number. VG was supposed to go to the motorpool with paperwork after leaving AR's armory, but never showed up. Khawam states AR was supposed to be in his armory room between 10:30 and 11:13. ( I think he somehow was there earlier and later too)

VG was a hardworking, responsible troop. What are those duty commandments we have to memorize?
1. To take charge of this post and all government property within view.
Learn the 11 Military General Orders

VG did not want to be in dereliction of duty. This commitment is sometimes manipulated by abusers.
VG wanted to be able to handle this on her own - it is explained here:

Home - Find Vanessa Guillen

 

[Boxer]

The main suspect walked out of his barracks. The reason he walked out is likely because people like Mr. Miller were announcing to the world that they just found remains.

MOO. The details of ARs escape are being whitewashed. Looking to find the original source.

MOO AR was at the MP building being interviewed about his relationship with CA.

That is being confused with his being "confined to quarters" which he was, but he was in MP supervision when he absconded.
He already knew the walls were closing in.

 

[CronesEye]

The article does not clearly state what happened to her. The affidavit may or maynot contain the truth.
I would hope that the military taught the perp how to kill in one swift move. So one blow with the weapon and she’s dead. No screaming. Blood? Maybe she was moved then brutally attacked.
Too bad the Army did not teach her how to avoid being killed in hand to hand combat with the enemy. Or she hadn't taken that training module. So she didn't stand a chance.
Give Ft. Hood military the courtesy of being able to investigate the crime. Then we can jump on any congressional “investigation.”
I’d rather let the military and local LE do the investigating first. You know, boots on ground? And if there is a problem, time to clear it up. Make changes. Prevent more crime or other incidents. Reporting to Congress is like another Monday morning meeting. Useless. Action is needed. Not more meetings.

If congress is just another Monday morning meeting how do you propose clearing up the problem and making changes? I've had similar experiences of harassment in the military and that was decades ago. The military itself isn't going to change anything unless they are made to. It's a boys club, period. Entrenched patriarchy. Don't get me wrong, the guys in my family are all gold and military at that, but mainstream America has a problem accepting women as equals and yes, harassment leads not just to abuse but death.

It's got to stop. Congress is as Boxer stated, the crowbar.
But if you have any other suggestions, I am more than happy to hear them. I want change.

 

[CronesEye]

MOO. The details of ARs escape are being whitewashed. Looking to find the original source.

MOO AR as at the MP building being interviewed about his relationship with CA.

That is being confused with his being "confined to quarters" which he was, but he was in MP supervision when he absconded.
He already knew the walls were closing in.

I doubt AR would have got anywhere under Boxer supervision.