TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[IzzyBlanche]

He said he wanted her to get out to sign the ticket/warning. Why couldn't she sign it inside her vehicle?

Last fall I got (justifiably) pulled over for speeding. Before the officer had even traveled from his motorcycle to my window, I was sobbing uncontrollably. Let's just say the day had started out badly, which contributed to my speeding, even before I got pulled over. Getting pulled over was, in my mind at that point, just the bitter icing on the crapcake.

Yet the officer didn't question my tears or even comment on them as in "You seem upset." He was so nonchalant about it that I felt compelled to explain why I was crying so bitterly. He asked for my license and registration and I gave it to him and he walked away, I presume to check my record on his vehicle's computer.

He returned to my car and handed me the papers to sign. Even though it had to be clear to him that I was an emotional wreck, he never asked me to step out of my car. He simply advised me to try to be more careful.

 

[kimlynn]

Last fall I got (justifiably) pulled over for speeding. Before the officer had even traveled from his motorcycle to my window, I was sobbing uncontrollably. Let's just say the day had started out badly, which contributed to my speeding, even before I got pulled over. Getting pulled over was, in my mind at that point, just the bitter icing on the crapcake.

Yet the officer didn't question my tears or even comment on them as in "You seem upset." He was so nonchalant about it that I felt compelled to explain why I was crying so bitterly. He asked for my license and registration and I gave it to him and he walked away, I presume to check my record on his vehicle's computer.

He returned to my car and handed me the papers to sign. Even though it had to be clear to him that I was an emotional wreck, he never asked me to step out of my car. He simply advised me to try to be more careful.

It does seem an odd way of doing things. It's been yrs since I've gotten a ticket but it has always been signed while I'm sitting inside my vehicle.
Maybe BE was fibbing again. I think he probably was.

 

[katydid23]

Is that what you're supposed to do with police officers in a free society then? You have to rub them the right way?

No, but seriously? She says that 99% of ALL officers are horrible human beings that live to make others lives miserable? REALLY? LOL

 

[human]

I am afarid of the police. I have seen them in action a number of times where I lived.

I did meet a very nice one. I asked him why he was so different. He said he joined the police force to help people.

 

[Cappuccino]

No, but seriously? She says that 99% of ALL officers are horrible human beings that live to make others lives miserable? REALLY? LOL

She said her experience of US police officers had been overwhelmingly negative. I didn't see her make any claims to have information on 99% of officers or what type of human beings they are.

Incidentally, your Make a Wish foundation colleagues, admirable as they are, are also irrelevant to this discussion. Doing lots of nice stuff for charity doesn't mean you aren't also capable of heinous acts as Jimmy Savile's victims could no doubt tell you.

 

[katydid23]

She was also scary and possibly running guns and drugs.

No one said that SHE was running drugs. Please do not twist my words. I said that there is a corridor from Texas to Chicago that is known for running guns and drugs from Mexico. So cops are on the watch for Illinois plates. If you don't want to believe that it's fine.

But the main purpose for traffic stops is for getting bigger busts. It is not only for giving out traffic tix. Cops love to find illegal guns or contraband if possible. And they will stop a car if they think it might contain something like that.

 

[KEVINinTO]

I think it was just used as an example of victims being blamed versus the real culprit/abuser.

Night everyone.

IMO the decedent (can someone who commits suicide be described as a victim?) does share some responsibility for the arrest going down so badly. She was the initial aggressor with her rude and belligerent attitude towards the arresting officer despite his initial courteous and professional demeanor. The officer however was the professional in this situation and he should never have allowed himself to be baited into taking the unprofessional actions he took (e.g. telling Bland he was going to "light her up"). From my understanding he is a rookie cop with a lot to learn. While I believe some disciplinary action is warranted I don't think he should lose his job over this and he is not - IMO - responsible for Bland's death.

 

[katydid23]

She said her experience of US police officers had been overwhelmingly negative. I didn't see her make any claims to have information on 99% of officers or what type of human beings they are.

Incidentally, your Make a Wish foundation colleagues, admirable as they are, are also irrelevant to this discussion. Doing lots of nice stuff for charity doesn't mean you aren't also capable of heinous acts as Jimmy Savile's victims could no doubt tell you.

Oh, OK> She can say in her experience, 99% of ALL cops are horrible. But I cannot say that I just sat and helped 32 of them plan a Make a Wish party for some kids with leukemia, because that is irrelevant?

And actually, she said that 99% of ALL cops are horrible humans. Not just the ones that have made her acquaintance.


ETA:

the original quote:



For the one millionth time, being rude is not illegal in this country. If it was, 99% of all LEOs would be in prison.

 

[KaaBoom]

What does that mean, 'the right way' to interact with law enforcement? Are you talking about protocol, such as with when people meet Queen Elizabeth II or the Pope?

Is that the sort of standard to which members of the public are expected to adhere when they are interacting with public servants, whose salaries they pay?

Yes, I think the protocol is to keep your hands out of your pockets and in plain sight at all times, and never question their authority. Thats if you are white. If you are black, in addition, you should put your hands above your head and yell, "Hands up, don't shoot" repeatedly as loud as you can. That way hopefully there will be witnesses if you get shot.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

YES, I think she was trying to provoke him.

I think I am missing something.

For the sake of discussion, let's stipulate that yes, she was trying to provoke him with her attitude. Not with a weapon or even with a verbal threat to harm him.

Attitude alone is justification for him to produce his taser and threaten to light her up?

 

[bluesneakers]

IMO the decedent (can someone who commits suicide be described as a victim?) does share some responsibility for the arrest going down so badly. She was the initial aggressor with her rude and belligerent attitude towards the arresting officer despite his initial courteous and professional demeanor. The officer however was the professional in this situation and he should never have allowed himself to be baited into taking the unprofessional actions he took (e.g. telling Bland he was going to "light her up"). From my understanding he is a rookie cop with a lot to learn. While I believe some disciplinary action is warranted I don't think he should lose his job over this and he is not - IMO - responsible for Bland's death.

Yes. That's why they are often called "suicide victims."

 

[Cappuccino]

Oh, OK> She can say in her experience, 99% of ALL cops are horrible. But I cannot say that I just sat and helped 32 of them plan a Make a Wish party for some kids with leukemia, because that is irrelevant?

And actually, she said that 99% of ALL cops are horrible humans. Not just the ones that have made her acquaintance.

She said she was speaking from experience, which automatically means she is talking purely about the ones that have made her acquaintance.

As for my comment about the police officers who are involved in the Make A Wish foundation, I simply meant to point out that doing charity work doesn't mean that you're above scrutiny in any other area of your life. I did NOT intend to imply that you weren't allowed to give us that side of the picture, and certainly didn't intend any slight against the officers who are involved in such a praiseworthy exercise. Reading back, I can see how it looked that way, but I completely respect police officers overall, I just don't think the bad ones should be given a free pass.

 

[katydid23]

She said her experience of US police officers had been overwhelmingly negative. I didn't see her make any claims to have information on 99% of officers or what type of human beings they are.

Incidentally, your Make a Wish foundation colleagues, admirable as they are, are also irrelevant to this discussion. Doing lots of nice stuff for charity doesn't mean you aren't also capable of heinous acts as Jimmy Savile's victims could no doubt tell you.

Here is the post I was thinking of:


Posted by KaaBoom

For the one millionth time, being rude is not illegal in this country. If it was, 99% of all LEOs would be in prison.



[ sounds to me like she is saying ALL LEOS, not just the lucky ones to have met her.]

 

[Sillybilly]

An analogy was used about discussing the assignment of responsibility in general. That analogy was misinterpreted as pertaining to this case when it was not. End of story.

Scroll and roll folks !!



:tyou:

 

[katydid23]

She said she was speaking from experience, which automatically means she is talking purely about the ones that have made her acquaintance.

As for my comment about the police officers who are involved in the Make A Wish foundation, I simply meant to point out that doing charity work doesn't mean that you're above scrutiny in any other area of your life. I did NOT intend to imply that you weren't allowed to give us that side of the picture, and certainly didn't intend any slight against the officers who are involved in such a praiseworthy exercise. Reading back, I can see how it looked that way, but I completely respect police officers overall, I just don't think the bad ones should be given a free pass.

No,she was painting with the broadest brush possible and she said:



"For the one millionth time, being rude is not illegal in this country. If it was, 99% of all LEOs would be in prison."


[And that is the kind of discriminatory BS that keeps me here arguing. I know a lot of totally wonderful cops and firefighters and it hurts my heart to see people in my fave forum talking such chit about them ALL. It is totally unfair and unfounded to say they are all horrible human beings]

 

[KEVINinTO]

Yes. That's why they are often called "suicide victims."

You may be right which is why I asked the question but the fact that the media refers to persons who commit suicide as "victims" doesn't necessarily make it so.

Here is the Meriam-Webster definition of "Victim"

: a person who has been attacked, injured, robbed, or killed by someone else

: a person who is cheated or fooled by someone else

: someone or something that is harmed by an unpleasant event (such as an illness or accident)
Full Definition of VICTIM

1
: a living being sacrificed to a deity or in the performance of a religious rite
2
: one that is acted on and usually adversely affected by a force or agent <the schools are victims of the social system>: as
a (1) : one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions <a victim of cancer> <a victim of the auto crash> <a murder victim> (2) : one that is subjected to oppression, hardship, or mistreatment <a frequent victim of political attacks>
b : one that is tricked or duped <a con man's victim>

So generally speaking a victim is someone who is harmed by "someone else" . I don't know how someone who harms themselves (e.g. by cutting or suicide) could be considered a victim.

 

[Cappuccino]

No,she was painting with the broadest brush possible and she said:



"For the one millionth time, being rude is not illegal in this country. If it was, 99% of all LEOs would be in prison."


[And that is the kind of discriminatory BS that keeps me here arguing. I know a lot of totally wonderful cops and firefighters and it hurts my heart to see people in my fave forum talking such chit about them ALL. It is totally unfair and unfounded to say they are all horrible human beings]

All right, I don't think Kaa Boom meant it that way, but I'm not going to argue with you about the meaning of someone else's posts.

My point still stands - there are undoubtedly many good people among the police force, but equally undoubtedly there are some bad ones. And IMO the bad ones are getting too much of a free pass because people are afraid of tackling them.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm not talking about the media.

You may be right which is why I asked the question but the fact that the media refers to persons who commit suicide as "victims" doesn't necessarily make it so.

Here is the Meriam-Webster definition of "Victim"



So generally speaking a victim is someone who is harmed by "someone else" . I don't know how someone who harms themselves (e.g. by cutting or suicide) could be considered a victim.

 

[katydid23]

All right, I don't think Kaa Boom meant it that way, but I'm not going to argue with you about the meaning of someone else's posts.

My point still stands - there are undoubtedly many good people among the police force, but equally undoubtedly there are some bad ones. And IMO the bad ones are getting too much of a free pass because people are afraid of tackling them.

How can she not mean it the way she clearly said it. In her view, 99% of ALL LEOS are rude people. And it is very sad that this forum is allowing such talk about LE stand. It used to be a pro-LE forum and now it is the opposite.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Your use of the word baited makes it sound like you think her attitude was a put on deliberately to provoke him. He didn't "get baited", he was faced with a member of the public who didn't act like a picture perfect stoppee, and he chose to behave like a bully.

It was his choice to react like that, she didn't bait him into it.

BBM for focus.

Exactly. No matter what bait someone else throws at you, it's your choice to take the bait or leave it rotting at the curb. Whatever you do or don't do is up to you, not the baiter.

ESPECIALLY IMO if you are a law enforcement officer, where baiting comes with the territory.