TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[katydid23]

I don't think Montjoy is twisting anything. You said "He allowed himself to be baited" because he was "weak" which is taking the responsibility off the officer and putting it on SB. It's like you're saying he wasn't strong enough to resist what she started. Which, I agree, sounds a lot like what women often hear after they've been abused, assaulted, harassed, raped, fired, cat-called, etc.

If only you hadn't done THAT he never would have done THIS.

BBM==== hey, we agree

 

[Cappuccino]

How can she not mean it the way she clearly said it. In her view, 99% of ALL LEOS are rude people. And it is very sad that this forum is allowing such talk about LE stand. It used to be a pro-LE forum and now it is the opposite.

Being a pro-LE forum is not the same thing as being a forum full of people who are uncritical of LE. In fact, I would say the opposite is true - if you're really pro-Law Enforcement then you need to be highly critical of police officers who don't do their job properly. Otherwise, you're not pro-LE and merely pro-authority, in a rather sinister "just obeying orders" sense.

 

[Montjoy]

Being a pro-LE forum is not the same thing as being a forum full of people who are uncritical of LE. In fact, I would say the opposite is true - if you really pro-Law Enforcement then you need to be highly critical of police officers who don't do their job properly. Otherwise, you're not pro-LE and merely pro-authority, in a rather sinister "just obeying orders" sense.

I doubt that many of us would keep posting here if WS posters were obliged to celebrate abusive officers, such as the one in this case. Just the same, we do have to endure posters who do defend abuses of power, and frankly, it does get a bit old.

 

[katydid23]

Tasers are not for using on people who get stopped for a minor traffic violation, get ordered to put their cigarette out, then ordered to leave their vehicle when they ask why they can't smoke in their own car.

And if that's what they are being used for then tasers should be taken off police officers. I hate to quote Spiderman, of all people, but with power comes responsibility. A taser gives you an awful lot of power so if its being used so casually it should be removed from the police's armoury.

If a police officer asks you to do something and you say no his or her next move to is to taser you?! I had no idea this was departmental policy. I assumed tasers were used when someone was endangering someone, attempting to flee, resisting arrest... I didn't know just sitting in your car was a taser-worthy offence.

BBM for focus.

Wow, really? I learned something new today then.

I had no idea that the intent of tasers is to subdue a citizen who is nonviolently and non-threatheningly refusing to follow a police order.

Here I just thought their intention was to provide law enforcement officers a means to subdue a potentially threatening suspect without actually resulting to lethal force with their firearms.

I had absolutely NO IDEA.

You all took what I said and took it a step further. And said I thought she should be tased . I never said that.

He gave her a lawful order, which was to exit her vehicle. She refused about ten times. Then he threatened to use his taser, which is what got her to finally leave the car. And I said 'that is what the taser is for.' And what i meant was that it is used to get a non-compliant person to comply, without using force.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Oh, OK> She can say in her experience, 99% of ALL cops are horrible. But I cannot say that I just sat and helped 32 of them plan a Make a Wish party for some kids with leukemia, because that is irrelevant?

And actually, she said that 99% of ALL cops are horrible humans. Not just the ones that have made her acquaintance.


ETA:

the original quote:



For the one millionth time, being rude is not illegal in this country. If it was, 99% of all LEOs would be in prison.

English major speaking: As I read it, she said that 99% of LEOs are rude. I see nothing that says 99% of cops are horrible human beings.

 

[katydid23]

Being a pro-LE forum is not the same thing as being a forum full of people who are uncritical of LE. In fact, I would say the opposite is true - if you're really pro-Law Enforcement then you need to be highly critical of police officers who don't do their job properly. Otherwise, you're not pro-LE and merely pro-authority, in a rather sinister "just obeying orders" sense.

I have said numerous times that this rookie was WRONG and should be suspended, demoted and possibly fired.

But this forum has a lot of people saying very unfair, untrue things about LE in general. And that is what I am complaining about. Like saying 99% of them are horrible human beings who live to make others miserable. Come on.

 

[Montjoy]

You all took what I said and took it a step further. And said I thought she should be tased . I never said that.

rsbm

Wait, where? I've read the passages you quoted several times, and I hate to say, but I think you are misrepresenting what has actually been said. Just my opinion, but it doesn't seem fair to me to do so.

 

[Cappuccino]

You all took what I said and took it a step further. And said I thought she should be tased . I never said that.

He gave her a lawful order, which was to exit her vehicle. She refused about ten times. Then he threatened to use his taser, which is what got her to finally leave the car. And I said 'that is what the taser is for.' And what i meant was that it is used to get a non-compliant person to comply, without using force.

And if he'd had no taser what would he have done at that point? Maybe used the tongue in his head to explain to her that she's legally obliged to comply with an order to leave the vehicle?

American police officers should spend a week training in a country where the police are forced to do their job with no tasers and no guns. It would improve their communication skills immensely.

 

[katydid23]

English major speaking: As I read it, she said that 99% of LEOs are rude. I see nothing that says 99% of cops are horrible human beings.

That was her second post on the subject that said that. They are horrible human beings that live to make others lives miserable.

 

[bluesneakers]

You all took what I said and took it a step further. And said I thought she should be tased . I never said that.

He gave her a lawful order, which was to exit her vehicle. She refused about ten times. Then he threatened to use his taser, which is what got her to finally leave the car. And I said 'that is what the taser is for.' And what i meant was that it is used to get a non-compliant person to comply, without using force.

It sounds to me like you're still saying the same thing. Unless you mean the purpose of the taser is to threaten to use it.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

You all took what I said and took it a step further. And said I thought she should be tased . I never said that.

He gave her a lawful order, which was to exit her vehicle. She refused about ten times. Then he threatened to use his taser, which is what got her to finally leave the car. And I said 'that is what the taser is for.' And what i meant was that it is used to get a non-compliant person to comply, without using force.

And I said that I thought tasers were intended to get a non-compliant, potentially violent person to comply with police orders. I didn't see SB threatening violence or exhibiting violent behavior until after being threatened with being lit up. I never said I thought you said you thought she SHOULD have been tased.

That aside. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Are you saying that taser use is justifiable any time a person who has not exhibited a threat to the officer does not comply with that officer's lawful order?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

That was her second post on the subject that said that. They are horrible human beings that live to make others lives miserable.

I think 99% of cops are rude. (general statement)

99% of the cops I've personally interacted with seem to be horrible human beings. (statement referring to a limited number)

There's a difference.

ETA: Just for clarification, since there seems to be a communications gap on this thread, I am not using the "I" in the above examples to state my own opinions. Just paraphrasing someone else's to make a point about shades of meaning.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

You all took what I said and took it a step further. And said I thought she should be tased .I never said that.

Again snipped for focus.

I reread the comments you quoted in addition to mine, and I still don't see where any of them said you said you thought she SHOULD have been tased.

As I see it, all of us were questioning your statement that the intent of tasers is to subdue anyone who refuses to obey a police officer's lawful order.

 

[katydid23]

I don't want to tar all cops with the same brush, but we're getting some insight into their defenders in this conversation. She was deliberately trying to provoke him, he was weak and succumbed to her, and anyway that's what tasers are for.

This is an example of how words and ideas get twisted here. It is kind of rude the way this is being presented. You say you are getting some insight into 'their defenders.' I think if your son was a LEO then you would be defensive if a group of people were saying they were rude, horrible, abusive 's. And I hope you would stand up and defend your son as well.

As for my statement that she was deliberately trying to provoke him---have you read any of her social media? She hated cops.

And what she said to him was designed to provoke him. She was rude and condescending at every opportunity that she could have been civil and polite. Who can argue that she was not looking to provoke? A cop pulls you over, asks politely if you mind putting out your cig and you say NAH, this is my car--dont have to put it out...<<<that is provocative and it is a joke to pretend otherwise.

He was weak by being thin-skinned and he did succumb to the provocation, imo. He should have given her the ticket and driven off. He should not have let himself get angry.

The 'that is what tasers are for' comment was taken out of context and tacked on to the end of your little ditty to make me sound like a 'defender of abuse.' But I give up anyway. So go for it.

 

[katydid23]

I think 99% of cops are rude. (general statement)

99% of the cops I've personally interacted with seem to be horrible human beings. (statement referring to a limited number)

There's a difference.

Right. and someone has said BOTH of the above. Does everyone here believe that 99% of ALL Police Officers are RUDE?

 

[Montjoy]

Is it now provocative to assert your rights?

 

[Cappuccino]

This is an example of how words and ideas get twisted here. It is kind of rude the way this is being presented. You say you are getting some insight into 'their defenders.' I think if your son was a LEO then you would be defensive if a group of people were saying they were rude, horrible, abusive 's. And I hope you would stand up and defend your son as well.

As for my statement that she was deliberately trying to provoke him---have you read any of her social media? She hated cops.

And what she said to him was designed to provoke him. She was rude and condescending at every opportunity that she could have been civil and polite. Who can argue that she was not looking to provoke? A cop pulls you over, asks politely if you mind putting out your cig and you say NAH, this is my car--dont have to put it out...<<<that is provocative and it is a joke to pretend otherwise.

He was weak by being thin-skinned and he did succumb to the provocation, imo. He should have given her the ticket and driven off. He should not have let himself get angry.

The 'that is what tasers are for' comment was taken out of context and tacked on to the end of your little ditty to make me sound like a 'defender of abuse.' But I give up anyway. So go for it.

Well maybe now we do get some insight truly into why you're arguing with us. You think you're defending your son!

You're not defending your son, your defending one of the bad apples in your son's barrel, and its not in your son's interests to keep that bad apple there. You should be agreeing with me when I said this officer needs to be sacked.

 

[Montjoy]

Well maybe now we do get some insight truly into why you're arguing with us. You think you're defending your son!

You're not defending your son, your defending one of the bad apples in your son's barrel, and its not in your son's interests to keep that bad apple there. You should be agreeing with me when I said this officer needs to be sacked.

Well put. Bad cops like this make it harder for the good cops (and I will assume that the poster's son is one of them) to do their jobs safely. LE should be front and center in wanting to get rid of bad apples like this, rather than making weak excuses for him.

By the same token, I'd imagine that bad cops and their defenders would be defending this officer --and no, I'm not pointing any fingers here.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Right. and someone has said BOTH of the above. Does everyone here believe that 99% of ALL Police Officers are RUDE?

It doesn't matter what everyone here believes.

The point is that the same person can say that he/she believes that 99% of all police officers are rude, and also say that 100% of the police officers he/she has personally interacted with are horrible human beings.

And those two things do not equate to that person saying that 99% of all police officers are horrible human beings.

 

[KaaBoom]

From,the FBI. Ideal chracteristics of a police officer

https://leb.fbi.gov/2014/december/perspective-characteristics-of-an-ideal-police-officer

See civility, humility, and controlled temper.

Trouper Encinia's grades

1) Initiative F
2) Sense of Ethics F
3) Respect and Knowledge of Laws F
4) Communication Skills F
5) Common Sense F
6) Civility F
7) Service Mentality F
8) Humility F
9) Controlled Temper F
10) Thirst for New Knowledge C

I gave him a C on 10, because at least he was doing his research to figure out what to charge her with.