TX - Sandra Bland, 28, found dead in jail cell, Waller County, 13 July 2015 #2

[bluesneakers]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I work in some isolated areas in which prisoners need to use commercial flights to go to court or prison, and so I often see people being escorted on flights by the RCMP. The constables *always* let those in custody smoke, and smoke as much as they want, before their flights, as it makes them more docile. Whether you like smoking or not, under the circumstances it is the humane thing to do. But from a LE perspective, it is also the sane and effective thing to do.

Any LEO in a traffic stop should be able to put his/her prejudices aside and allow someone to smoke in their own car to deescalate the risk of the situation. It lets the persons being detained/arrested think that they have some control over some part of their lives, and it keeps them from getting antsy. Anyone with even the tiniest sliver of training should know this, and should know that depriving a smoker unnecessarily is something done only to assert authority and/or bully. That's why POW camps have universally allowed smoking, to the point at which cigarettes were so plentiful that they were used as currency.

I've seen something similar when dealing with psych patients.

And I've never seen an aide refuse to take patients on their smoke break out of fear.

 

[bluesneakers]

J

In this day and age its a very very rare occurrence for a member of the Garda Síochana to kill or be killed in the line of duty. I can't even remember the last time either happened.

However, Katydid might fairly retort that that's not a fair comparison because Ireland has such strict gun control in this day and age. She might be more interested to know that the Irish police were traditionally armed and quite trigger happy up until the government forcibly disarmed them in the middle of a viscious civil war where they were being shot at by both sides.

They survived, and they're all the better for it.

I predict American police will only get more militarized and the results are only going to get worse. Jm cynical o.

 

[katydid23]

In this day and age its a very very rare occurrence for a member of the Garda Síochana to kill or be killed in the line of duty. I can't even remember the last time either happened.

However, Katydid might fairly retort that that's not a fair comparison because Ireland has such strict gun control in this day and age. She might be more interested to know that the Irish police were traditionally armed and quite trigger happy up until the government forcibly disarmed them in the middle of a vicious civil war where they were being shot at by both sides.

They survived, and they're all the better for it.

Have you ever been to downtown Chicago or Baltimore or South Central LA at night? We have vicious gangs that often shoot 10, 15, 20 people in one weekend, in each city. That is what our cops have to deal with and what they endure. I am scared to death for my son and his friends. I now what they go through. How dangerous the gangs can be. And it hurts me to hear them being dissed and belittled.

 

[jslk]

Hardly slept last night for all this churning over in my mind.

Ftr I also have an immediate family member in LE, albeit not in the USA. It terrifies me what he has to face on a daily basis. And we don't live in a gun soaked culture. But he is putting his life on the line potentially every single day.

However I know that he would not goad a driver like BE goaded SB.

O/t but when I've visited the USA I've found the LE to be quite intimidating. I am not a law breaker by any stretch yet found I didn't want to make eye contact with any. I found the guns hanging off their belts terrifying. I smiled at one once and this was not returned but an icy stare! [emoji52]

 

[Cappuccino]

Have you ever been to downtown Chicago or Baltimore or South Central LA at night? We have vicious gangs that often shoot 10, 15, 20 people in one weekend, in each city. That is what our cops have to deal with and what they endure. I am scared to death for my son and his friends. I now what they go through. How dangerous the gangs can be. And it hurts me to hear them being dissed and belittled.

I know. I'm not suggesting that it would be in any way feasible to disarm the police in America, that would be ridiculous. I'm just saying that it would make them better at their job if they had some training in how to do their job with no weapon - it would keep them safer, and keep the public they come into contact with safer too.

 

[Montjoy]

Have you ever been to downtown Chicago or Baltimore or South Central LA at night? We have vicious gangs that often shoot 10, 15, 20 people in one weekend, in each city.

I have -- I lived in Chicago for most of a decade when I was doing my PhD, and 'downtown' is a very safe area. I took my parents and grandmother downtown regularly when I lived there. The crime is not random, it is business, and not to diminish its awfulness, but it's restricted to gang areas. And you really do overstate it. There's a lot of hyperbole about the homicide rate in Chicago, largely perpetuated through right wing political websites. In fact, the homicide rate was just about twice as high in 1973 as it was in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago

But why let facts get in the way of a juicy argument?

 

[katydid23]

I know. I'm not suggesting that it would be in any way feasible to disarm the police in America, that would be ridiculous. I'm just saying that it would make them better at their job if they had some training in how to do their job with no weapon - it would keep them safer, and keep the public they come into contact with safer too.

I just now realized that a few of the biggest critics of our police in this forum, are not living in the US. And now I understand a little better. If you have not experienced the chaos and danger of some of our urban centers, you would not understand why our police need to be powerful and in control. They cannot go eye to eye with the MS13, and be all squishy and 'nice.' LOL

I think most of our citizens know and accept that they need to be compliant during a traffic stop because our police can not afford to joke around. There are way too many guns and drugs and whack jobs ready to go off. So when an officer requests the driver put out a cig---then MOST drivers do so because they understand the gravity of the situation. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Have you ever been to downtown Chicago or Baltimore or South Central LA at night? We have vicious gangs that often shoot 10, 15, 20 people in one weekend, in each city. That is what our cops have to deal with and what they endure. I am scared to death for my son and his friends. I now what they go through. How dangerous the gangs can be. And it hurts me to hear them being dissed and belittled.

They often shoot 10 - 20 people in one weekend? Do you have any links? I haven't heard this number before.

 

[katydid23]

I have -- I lived in Chicago for most of a decade when I was doing my PhD, and 'downtown' is a very safe area. I took my parents and grandmother downtown regularly when I lived there. The crime is not random, it is business, and not to diminish its awfulness, but it's restricted to gang areas. And you really do overstate it. There's a lot of hyperbole about the homicide rate in Chicago, largely perpetuated through right wing political websites. In fact, the homicide rate was just about twice as high in 1973 as it was in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago

But why let facts get in the way of a juicy argument?

link:

http://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/7...iday-weekend-shootings-since-thursday-evening

10 dead, 53 injured in Fourth of July weekend shootings

Fourth of July weekend shootings left 10 people dead — including a 7-year-old boy — and at least 53 others injured from Thursday evening to early Monday.

Seven-year-old Amari Brown was killed in a shooting that also left a 26-year-old woman wounded late Saturday in the Humboldt Park neighborhood.

 

[meegan]

"She started yanking away, then she kicked me, so I took her straight to the ground"

NO

She asked you if you wanted her to sit on the ground, you said no and THEN took her to the ground.

This guy was having a boring day and wanted some action. JMO

flllittttttttt

 

[bluesneakers]

It's possible to have experienced the danger and chaos (and excitement, diversity and vibrancy) of our urban centers and not understand why the police have to be so powerful and in control. I understand why they want to be, and maybe why they think they have to be, but there are better ways.

I just now realized that a few of the biggest critics of our police in this forum, are not living in the US. And now I understand a little better. If you have not experienced the chaos and danger of some of our urban centers, you would not understand why our police need to be powerful and in control. They cannot go eye to eye with the MS13, and be all squishy and 'nice.' LOL

I think most of our citizens know and accept that they need to be compliant during a traffic stop because our police can not afford to joke around. There are way too many guns and drugs and whack jobs ready to go off. So when an officer requests the driver put out a cig---then MOST drivers do so because they understand the gravity of the situation. JMO

 

[Cappuccino]

I just now realized that a few of the biggest critics of our police in this forum, are not living in the US. And now I understand a little better. If you have not experienced the chaos and danger of some of our urban centers, you would not understand why our police need to be powerful and in control. They cannot go eye to eye with the MS13, and be all squishy and 'nice.' LOL

I think most of our citizens know and accept that they need to be compliant during a traffic stop because our police can not afford to joke around. There are way too many guns and drugs and whack jobs ready to go off. So when an officer requests the driver put out a cig---then MOST drivers do so because they understand the gravity of the situation. JMO

As a foreigner, I may well not understand the chaos of your cities or the pressures of policing criminals with MS13s, (whatever they are), but I do understand what went wrong with that traffic stop.

He reacted to a woman with a cigarette as if she was a dangerous criminal with a dangerous weapon. He went straight from "please put out the cigarette" to "do as you're told or I'll light you up."

And that's a mistake that wouldn't be made by an officer who has been trained to police the public with no weapon. Send American police officers over to Ireland for a week and let them police the same way ours do, (and vice versa). I bet it would be interesting for both sides!

 

[katydid23]

Chicago shootings:

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings

JAN. 1, 2014 - DEC. 31, 2014
2,589
shooting victims

JAN. 1, 2015 - JULY 26, 2015
1,493
shooting victims

 

[BritsKate]

My 15 year old daughter is rude and condescending multiple times on a daily basis...pretty certain most here would be horrified if my reaction to her attitude would be threatening her with physical violence. I hope so at any rate.

Now, if she were coming at me aggressively, combatively, I have had to restrain her. Not hurt her, but restrain her to protect myself. She's got some issues that require a lot of love, understanding, and patience on my part...just like everyone shouldn't be parents, not every cop has the temperament to be one.

JMO

 

[KaaBoom]

I just spent the day with a room full of cops who had volunteered to make 'wishes come true' for Make A Wish Foundation event. . I can assure you that they are not 'horrible human beings' who 'want to make other peoples lives a living hell.' It makes me sad to even type that. Do you really believe that? You must be miserable.

Sandra Bland had a new job, a new life in front of her in Texas, and her life was going good. Everything was getting better. Then she met Trooper Brian Enciniam and not only did he wreck her live, but within three days it was over. Why? Because she didn't use her turn signal and she didn't put out her cigarette when he told her to. The police are the worst bullies in out society. They pick on the poor, they pick on the defenseless, They beat homeless people to death, they shoot mentally ill people, they shoot black kids in the back. The list goes on and on.

You talk about these people like they are some great heros who are keeping us safe. But keeping us safe from who? Safe from people who don't use their turn signals? Safe from people who sell cigarettes without a tax license? All I can say is that these bullies deserve every bit of bad karma that they get.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I find it helpful to look at both sides and determine what is supported and what is not. Remember the officer pulled his taser and threatened her before he pulled her out of the vehicle. So it's possible that simply defending herself became an assault charge.

If I counted correctly he told her to Step out of the car 8 times prior to first call giving badge number and a total of 15 times of Step out of car/giving a lawful order, prior to removing taser/light you up comment. JMHO but wow I knew said it a lot and said 2 more after that, as she got out.
Its crazy how many times he tells her to do every single thing, 11 times to turn around/lawful order/put hands behind back ....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-transcript_55b03a88e4b0a9b94853b1f1 JMHO, I dont agree with the pulling taser, but she def did not comply, just the opposite.

 

[katydid23]

They often shoot 10 - 20 people in one weekend? Do you have any links? I haven't heard this number before.

In all, as of Sunday evening, at least 21 people had been shot since Friday, including seven who died. Among them is a man shot in the head in the Gwynns Falls/Leakin Park area early Friday morning who died over the weekend.

The shootings are part of a surge of violence in recent months. May was the deadliest month in Baltimore since 1990 as 42 people were killed. Police reported 29 homicides in June.


http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83978736/


http://www.wbaltv.com/news/five-shot-in-four-overnight-shootings-in-baltimore/34091656
By Ron Snyder
8 shot in 6 shootings in Baltimore, in one night

Police said there have now been 308 shootings reported in Baltimore in 2015, compared to 157 at this point last year. There have also been 157 homicides reported in the city this year, compared to 108 at this point in 2014.

 

[arkansasmimi]

The arrest warrant explains why he wanted her to step out of the car, why he cuffed her etc.

http://documents.latimes.com/sandra-bland-pc-affidavit-and-magistrate-orders/

Respectfully BBM, yep count the numerous times count them..... have to take our shoes off run out of fingers, just the get out of car commands JMHO http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-

 

[katydid23]

I have -- I lived in Chicago for most of a decade when I was doing my PhD, and 'downtown' is a very safe area. I took my parents and grandmother downtown regularly when I lived there. The crime is not random, it is business, and not to diminish its awfulness, but it's restricted to gang areas. And you really do overstate it. There's a lot of hyperbole about the homicide rate in Chicago, largely perpetuated through right wing political websites. In fact, the homicide rate was just about twice as high in 1973 as it was in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago

But why let facts get in the way of a juicy argument?

Is CNN and ChicagoSun OK? They are not right wing political websites, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/chicago-violent-weekend/


Gruesome weekend for Chicago leaves city, police chief reeling
By Holly Yan and Leslie Holland, CNN
Updated 10:29 PM ET, Mon July 6, 2015

When a city has eight killings in two days, including the death of a 7-year-old boy, something is seriously wrong with the system.

That's what Chicago's police chief said after a spate of bloodshed that tormented the city over the weekend.

"We need to repair a broken system," Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy told reporters Sunday. "Criminals don't feel the repercussions of the justice system."

Take, for example, the death of 7-year-old Amari Brown. McCarthy said the boy was the unintended victim of a bullet meant for his father, a ranking gang member.

The system failed Amari, the police chief said. Amari's father, who has been arrested 45 times and has a lengthy criminal record, should not have been on the streets, McCarthy said.


======================================================================

So go ahead Montjoy, tell me again how peaceful and lovely Chicago is, and how I am ignoring the 'facts..'

=======================================================================



http://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/7/...ursday-evening

10 dead, 53 injured in Fourth of July weekend shootings

Fourth of July weekend shootings left 10 people dead — including a 7-year-old boy — and at least 53 others injured from Thursday evening to early Monday.
======================================================================




http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings

JAN. 1, 2014 - DEC. 31, 2014
2,589
shooting victims

JAN. 1, 2015 - JULY 26, 2015
1,493

shooting victims so far

======================================
Hey, love how you say it is 'only in the gang areas'-----YOU MEAN ONLY IN THE POOR AREAS? SIXTY THREE people were shot 4th of July weekend!

 

[arkansasmimi]

There should be no battling egos if you're not a criminal. The police man should be there to protect you.
I have never met a bad cop in my life. This story makes me sad...

Her criminal history could have played a part in both ego's. At the time both knew of it and that she had just broken the law. She knew she was under the influence and that along with her belief system towards LEO, I feel had a big part in her ego/attitude also. JMHO