TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, 18 Apr 2016 #42

[Razz]

Just for reference, here is a real Texas SWAT officer:

[video=twitter;932422274107326464]https://twitter.com/BackTheCops/status/932422274107326464[/video]

Now that is a SWAT guy!! [emoji28]

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[neesaki]

Now that is a SWAT guy!! [emoji28]

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Hey Razz, your inbox is full! :wave:

 

[Razz]

Hey Razz, your inbox is full! :wave:

Try again. [emoji4]

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[DeDee]

Almost my entire post was about the alcove. I have yet to see an accurate map of the interior area. Thus, I hoped to paint a picture of it by using words to explain it.

dedee i know you and i have discussed some of this, but i still don't understand some aspects of your reasoning. Help me understand.

Bbm

quote originally posted by dedee
for missy to be trapped, either she entered the alcove to go to the restroom or as she walked past the alcove, sp was able to attack from behind but, at the same time, he would need to drag her quickly into the alcove so it would not be on cctv.

The attack could be on cctv but that is not what we've officially been told. Maybe he lunged and missed giving Missy an opportunity to dash down the main hallway. Even though we are not privy to the entire footage, we were informed that SP is doing more of the same. In my viewpoint, that is wandering the halls, opening doors, breaking glass. I have seen Missy's physique. Another woman could not do this to her. Missy was strong and firm even though she stopped going to that gym where CV worked a couple of weeks before her death.

i agree on the murder scene. I’ve always looked at the alcove/bathroom area as being the location where it all went down. I think it’s possible that sp was actually inside one of the bathrooms when missy walked into the bathroom, and the sudden confrontation in a confined space is what led to murder. I don’t think sp cared about being on camera doing the murder, since he didn’t care about being on camera any other time.

SP could not count on Missy entering a restroom. Why wait inside a restroom she may never enter?
There is at least one time in the cctv when SP intentionally walked out of camera range. After leaving the door he faked an attempted breaching, by creating crow bar marks, sheaths his tool, SP turns toward the camera and, walks into the far NW corner of the Church off camera.
Just my stubborn self is firm that SP waited in the alcove. I knew it as soon as I saw it in person.

quote originally posted by dedee
someone propped those doors open with intention. It is my firm belief that sp exited the sw doors. When he left the alcove area, dashed through the propped open door and when reaching the exterior sliding doors, they automatically opened because they are being opened automatically when approached from within the interior of the church.

Sp could run along, past missy's vehicle and continue along the south side of the exterior to the parking lot where the vehicle was parked in the se corner. Swfa has a camera aimed at the porte cochere.

i continue to think it’s contrary to the murderer’s nature to go out in the way that the victim came in. He doesn’t know what’s out there. Elsewhere you have assigned a lot of cunning and intelligence to sp with regard to his planning of the event – so why would he go out by a way that he has not previously cleared, rather than go back the way he came and go out a door and directly to his car? He doesn’t know if another camper has arrived or if missy had someone sitting in the truck. If he goes out that way, he is exposed to the unknown for the length of time it takes to get to where his car is. And i question why you think the car is parked in the se corner? To me, it’s got to be n near the kitchen door by which he entered, or else around the corner to the ne. As secluded from the road as possible, and nearest to what we understand to be his entry point into the building. The se puts him far away from anything resembling an exit point.

Everyone knew Missy performed the early morning sessions alone. Her daughter would accompany her for the second sessions. Missy had thousands of friends. And, apparently at least one evil enemy.

why would he go out by a way that he has not previously cleared, rather than go back the way he came and go out a door and directly to his car?

**Sensitive Content**

Can you explain how SP made it from the alcove to the Kitchen without being seen on cctv? My apologies but he used a hammer and a pick to create head and chest injuries. SP wasn't Mr. Clean at that point.
Maybe he did go back down the main hallway. Razz remembers Emergency Personnel being near the front doors. If true, perhaps they were collecting blood droplets from where SP walked back toward the single door he allegedly entered. But, how could a section of his vehicle be seen on camera in the North Parking Lot?

And i question why you think the car is parked in the se corner? To me, it’s got to be n near the kitchen door by which he entered, or else around the corner to the ne. As secluded from the road as possible, and nearest to what we understand to be his entry point into the building.

A) We were told a section of the vehicle can be seen on cctv [likely from SWFA]. When you enter the driveway from Chris Kyle Highway, the path naturally takes you to the North Side or one must veer to the right as MB did to access the Porte Cochere.
B) It was raining. No CGs would park in back parking lot. However, a vehicle entering the front drive could catch a glimpse of the vehicle parked on the North End near the Kitchen.
C) I think the first things he did was to bust the glass doors in the back of the Church.

originally posted by dedee
it also explains why the exterior camera was not working. Sp needed that camera to not be operational.

mpd has always said that they don’t believe any cameras were tampered with. They also said that the exterior cameras worked intermittently, so i don’t see how sp could count on it to not be working, and yet not tamper with it.

How fortunate for SP that no one suspects SP may have fiddled with the exterior camera prior to the diabolical event. All I know, is that the exterior camera wasn't operational that fateful morning. It makes sense that SP didn't want it to be functioning. All I know is the interior glass door was propped open. Two coincidences are two clues.

quote originally posted by dedee
I have not been able to 100% conclude SPs ability to dart from the alcove back to the kitchen without being caught on cctv.

True.

you mentioned elsewhere in your post the following regarding the motion-activated camera:

quote originally posted by dedee
when, in the cctv, the SP leaves the dutch door and walks further down the hall, sp seems to disappear - he entered a room is what happened - then, suddenly sp appears way down the hallway, to begin walking up the hall toward the dutch doors and stops in the area across from the dutch doors.

Suddenly SP appears because he did. He entered a room further down the hallway, the light with the cctv became deactivated due to his entering a room and SP suddenly reappeared. Is that better? Or, maybe, he unexpectedly reappears further down the hallway is that better?

so, we already see a lag in the camera picking up sp inbetween leaving the dutch doors and starting to return from the other end of the hallway. And that is with sp moving in a very casual, unhurried manner. So to me it seems reasonable that in rushing to leave, sp would move faster than a camera could pick him up. Again, i don’t think he is thinking or caring about the camera picking him up. I think it’s just what ended up happening, and the recorded video of empty hallway, perhaps doors swinging shut, etc is what led mpd to say that he isn’t seen on camera but they presume left the same way he entered.

Someone mentioned SP would be high from an adrenaline rush after the struggle to murder Missy. SP needed to leave rapidly due to CGs arriving. Maybe the killing took longer than SP anticipated because Missy raged against the dying of the Light. She did not go easy into that goodnight.

A Killer walking away, in a lackadaisical fashion, splattered with blood and tissue, strolling to the Kitchen, perhaps tapping his hands along way on the walls, as exiting the North door is not something I can reconcile. Maybe 24 hours of sleep could make me consider differently. Again, though, I set out to explain the alcove area

Landing at the NE Door Looking Toward SWFA


In the NE Parking Lot Looking Toward SWFA

 

[DeDee]

Image taken on the North Side of CCoC
To the Left and a little further back is the busted single metal door.
Notice how the Entryway from Chris Kyle Memorial Highway Leads to the North Parking area unless one so chooses to bear to the right as Missy did.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Entering where MB parked under the Porte Cochere, at the covered area, of the SW Corner, you will pass a small open area on the immediate left. That area is for wheelchairs, folded wheelchairs, as it is fairly narrow.

The wall beside the wheelchair area is a wall that encompasses the left side wall of the alcove. In other words, that wall for the wheelchairs is a shared wall with the alcove. Left side is where wheelchairs are placed the other side of the wall forms a portion of the alcove area. There is no bulletin board on the left side at all.

When passing the open, narrow area of the wheelchair wall, is a section of wall that runs parallel to the hallway. It may be 5' wide. Then, there is an open gap appx 4' wide. No door. It is where you enter the alcove. Thus, there is a 5' wall then, a 3' - 4' gap then another 5' section of wall on the right that forms the alcove. The right side of the alcove shares a wall with the Family Restroom.

When you walk, from the entry at the PC, where Missy entered, she would walk past the alcove. Assuming she needed to go to the Ladies Restroom, she would enter the alcove where the Ladies Restroom is on the left and the Men's Restroom is on the right. You cannot enter those restrooms without going through the alcove.

The alcove is rather deep. It held two upholstered chairs and a small table when I visited.

If you don't enter the alcove, the next door on your left, flush with the wall, is the Family Restroom. I did not enter it but assumed it had a place for changing baby diapers and possibly handicapped bathrooms.

All of the cameras are inside the round light fixtures in the ceiling. There is not a camera at nor in the alcove. There is one outside where MB parked that was troublesome as the Church said it worked sometimes and sometimes it didn't lately (At the TOD).

When, in the cctv, the SP leaves the Dutch door and walks further down the hall, SP seems to disappear - he entered a room is what happened - then, suddenly SP appears way down the hallway, to begin walking up the hall toward the Dutch doors and stops in the area across from the Dutch doors.

When watching the cctv, you will notice, during that scene, the floor casts a purplish blue color onto the floors. That is the security camera being activated. Any purplish or blue you see on the floors or near the edge of the floor where it meets the wall is all due to security camera activation. This is true even during the daytime as the purplish blue light was triggered on while I was walking the halls of the Church.

The cameras are never zoomed in during the final scene. The cameras are placed in the hallway ceilings where the round shaped lights are installed.

Cameras did not zoom in and out. SP merely activated them or was closer to them. IE, when SP activates, by motion, the camera to record, even if SP leaves the hallway the camera continues to record for a few seconds longer.

When SP enters the last scene, coming from the auditorium area, into the hallway, the light is already on in the hallway. It always perplexed me that the camera was on when SP opens the door before he begins swinging his hammer to break the glass.

The reason the light was already on, is because SP had been in the hallway and entered the door further down the hall (you can see that door is still open) so when he pops out of the door, at the final scene, the camera did not have time to cut the recording before he exits the door in the last scene. Thus, the SPs movement was swift and kept the cameras from having time to shut off, when he exits the room, entering the hallway, to bang on the glass window.

Many thought he looked wimpy or as a female. That is not true. He was tapping the glass gently so he could pull it into the hallway as if it appeared to be broken while standing outside.

For Missy to be trapped, either she entered the alcove to go to the restroom or as she walked past the alcove, SP was able to attack from behind but, at the same time, he would need to drag her quickly into the alcove so it would not be on cctv.

Keep in mind that the dark blue walls forming the alcove are solid pieces of a material sort of like marble but not that expensive. So, those alcove walls can be washed down to remove any tissue and are not made of a material that requires painting. They are not sheetrock walls.

In fact, the alcove walls that are along the left side of the hallway do not go all the way to the ceiling. They may be 8' or even 7' tall as the alcove walls are not as tall as the ceiling.

As you leave out of the Restrooms, into the alcove, you would be facing the chairs. It was a sweet touch, as I could imagine a gentleman sitting while his wife powdered her nose.

Incidentally, the way the Church sits on the hill, it appears that the Porte Cochere is truly facing the west even though on the map it is marked as South. It can be confusing. All you really need to know, is that MBs vehicle was within 20', give or take, from where she died.

When I mentioned the interior doors were propped open in the SW corner, no one suggested a purpose for this. The interior glass doors in the SW corner, at least one of them is seen, when SP heads to the Dutch Door.

Someone propped those doors open with intention. It is my firm belief that SP exited the SW doors. When he left the alcove area, dashed through the propped open door and when reaching the exterior sliding doors, they automatically opened because they are being opened automatically when approached from within the interior of the Church.

SP could run along, past Missy's vehicle and continue along the South side of the exterior to the parking lot where the vehicle was parked in the SE corner. SWFA has a camera aimed at the Porte Cochere.

Could the SWFA camera pick up MB at the PC? Possibly but, it was raining and SWFA cameras had minimal condensation on them that we see when the white Altima does the drive through.

Could SWFA camera see SPs vehicle? Perhaps, but that corner of the CCoC parking lot has a tree that may interfere with the camera completely being able to capture the vehicle on cctv.

Given what I know about the layout, SP leaving where MB parked is the best option. It also explains why the exterior camera was not working. SP needed that camera to not be operational.

I have not been able to 100% conclude SPs ability to dart from the alcove back to the Kitchen without being caught on cctv.

I don't understand why you think this is how he left the building when MPD has already said he left the same way he entered, and we know he did not enter through these doors.

 

[Rott Mom]

What a disgrace - no arrest(s). SP is caught on video and nothing???
I'm so discouraged. A beautiful mother is gone.

 

[DeDee]

I don't understand why you think this is how he left the building when MPD has already said he left the same way he entered, and we know he did not enter through these doors.

I explained why in the very lengthy post that you replied to without editing any content for focus.

I have pondered (and posted) about the possibility of the perpetrator going into the attic of the building and remaining there for some time after the crime. There was a lot of chaos and confusion that would have permitted someone to come down from the attic in another area, later, without detection...and possibly while the cameras were down as earlier footage was retrieved.

I don't understand why you think the UnSub hid in the attic. Does the Church have an attic? Many buildings do not. And, why would SP hide in the attic to drop down into the interior while the cameras were down? Why assume the cameras were down or ever turned off? LEO only needed the video from the recording device. LEO didn't need the motion sensor from the cameras.

In fact, I think it would be a good idea to have the cameras rolling during the time Investigators were inside the Church as well as recording the collections by CSI.
.

 

[dizzychick]

were we ever able to tell if the freak was wearing a gopro? Something was said early on that there was a possibility he filmed the crime.. what about the cell phone dump? Nothing ? that's it? he pulled off the perfect crime it would appear, makes me want to bite nails and scream...

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

RSBM and BBM

I've been trying to put my feelings about SP's actions into words, a description that neatly sums up what the heck is going on here?

I think I've found a couple words that express my opinion of SB's mannerisms: purposely nonchalant.

The dragging of fingertips along the wall, the lumbering gait, the inept attempts to use specific tools, the comical reaction to the dutch doors. . . almost as if s/he were acutely aware that their every move was part of a performance. Almost as if they are (or pretending to be) a bored and lazy youngster who is waiting for someone or something to arrive, and resorts to casual vandalism to kill time.

As far as age, my wild guess is that he is an overgrown "tween" or "teen." Perhaps one with some type of developmental difficulties. The way he tilts his head up in comical surprise when only half of that door opens really reminds me of a socially/emotionally immature boy that inhabits the body of an almost fully grown man.

Or not. . . all just my wild speculations!

This was exactly my thought many many months ago when we first saw the video. I haven't said it since because I was loudly ignored.

My very first thought was a socially awkward but violent teenage stalker. MB had an open social network, CG has lots of events open to the public. Stalking wouldn't be difficult.

 

[Cannonball3804]

Almost my entire post was about the alcove. I have yet to see an accurate map of the interior area. Thus, I hoped to paint a picture of it by using words to explain it.

The attack could be on cctv but that is not what we've officially been told. Maybe he lunged and missed giving Missy an opportunity to dash down the main hallway. Even though we are not privy to the entire footage, we were informed that SP is doing more of the same. In my viewpoint, that is wandering the halls, opening doors, breaking glass. I have seen Missy's physique. Another woman could not do this to her. Missy was strong and firm even though she stopped going to that gym where CV worked a couple of weeks before her death.

To the first comment I bolded, if I read you right, you’re implying that maybe LE isn’t telling the truth in saying the attack was not captured on video. While LE is not above lying to the public, it’s a long stretch to believe they would lie to a judge in a sworn affidavit. This is from the SW for Missy’s iPhone and iPad:

As for the second bolded comment – a hammer and a crowbar are great equalizers. A woman can bring down a man very easily; all it takes is to get one blow in. So I can see a woman being able to do that to a woman with these tools.

SP could not count on Missy entering a restroom. Why wait inside a restroom she may never enter? There is at least one time in the cctv when SP intentionally walked out of camera range. After leaving the door he faked an attempted breaching, by creating crow bar marks, sheaths his tool, SP turns toward the camera and, walks into the far NW corner of the Church off camera. Just my stubborn self is firm that SP waited in the alcove. I knew it as soon as I saw it in person.

To the first bolded comment, that is correct when one only considers the targeted scenario. Given LE’s inability to identify a serious suspect, I am back to where I began – a wrong place, wrong time, untargeted scenario. SP happens to be in the bathroom (perhaps actually using the facilities, as he’s been in the building for a half hour and may have found something to drink in the kitchen). MB opens the door to flip on the lights for the campers. The attack may have spilled out into the alcove. Then again, it may have been contained in the bathroom which could help explain why LE could clear the scene as quickly as they did. I wonder if anyone who attended the Wednesday night service remembers a bathroom being blocked off? Or it may not have been blocked off.

To the bolded comment about fake breaching, have you considered that maybe SP was practicing? If I'm burglarizing and don't have much experience with it, I might try a few pry moves but not necessarily stay with it if it appears the door is very secure. I think maybe SP could have just decided it wasn't worth it to continue there.

Everyone knew Missy performed the early morning sessions alone. Her daughter would accompany her for the second sessions. Missy had thousands of friends. And, apparently at least one evil enemy.

**Sensitive Content**

Can you explain how SP made it from the alcove to the Kitchen without being seen on cctv? My apologies but he used a hammer and a pick to create head and chest injuries. SP wasn't Mr. Clean at that point.
Maybe he did go back down the main hallway. Razz remembers Emergency Personnel being near the front doors. If true, perhaps they were collecting blood droplets from where SP walked back toward the single door he allegedly entered. But, how could a section of his vehicle be seen on camera in the North Parking Lot?

A) We were told a section of the vehicle can be seen on cctv [likely from SWFA]. When you enter the driveway from Chris Kyle Highway, the path naturally takes you to the North Side or one must veer to the right as MB did to access the Porte Cochere.
B) It was raining. No CGs would park in back parking lot. However, a vehicle entering the front drive could catch a glimpse of the vehicle parked on the North End near the Kitchen.
C) I think the first things he did was to bust the glass doors in the back of the Church.

Bolded point 1 – I don’t think having some blood on him is going to make him slower. I think he ran as fast as he could to get out of there, and maybe he did leave some tracked blood evidence behind which would contribute to LE presuming he left the way he came in.
Bolded point 2 – I don’t believe LE ever said a section of vehicle was seen, although I could be wrong about that. I remember it being something like, “at the edge of the frame of video you can see a vehicle in the distance.” I don’t think it’s ever stated that the car is parked, is it? And given the darkness and the rain, the only thing that SWFA would have reasonably picked up is headlights – which they could have seen the vehicle leaving at 4:30 and know that it’s the killer but not be able to tell anything about the vehicle. And that’s if the video actually came from SWFA – I know that info was in a FB message from MPD so I’m inclined to believe it, but you know how that goes.
Bolded point 3 – Yes, the more I think about it, the smartest place for them to have parked would be around the corner from the kitchen, to the NE.

How fortunate for SP that no one suspects SP may have fiddled with the exterior camera prior to the diabolical event. All I know, is that the exterior camera wasn't operational that fateful morning. It makes sense that SP didn't want it to be functioning. All I know is the interior glass door was propped open. Two coincidences are two clues.

It’s not that no one suspects. LE checked that out in those very first days. They said no evidence of tampering. Prior to that morning’s events, how would he have been able to approach that camera and disable it in some way without his very approach to the camera being recorded? And what kind of disabling to a security camera can you really do other than smashing it to smithereens?

Suddenly SP appears because he did. He entered a room further down the hallway, the light with the cctv became deactivated due to his entering a room and SP suddenly reappeared. Is that better? Or, maybe, he unexpectedly reappears further down the hallway is that better?

No, here is my point – in that portion of video, the recording doesn’t immediately begin as soon as SP emerges from the room he entered. Right? The recording picks up when he is already down the hall. So who knows how many seconds have elapsed before the recording picks him up. And that’s with him being in no special rush. See what I’m saying?

Someone mentioned SP would be high from an adrenaline rush after the struggle to murder Missy. SP needed to leave rapidly due to CGs arriving. Maybe the killing took longer than SP anticipated because Missy raged against the dying of the Light. She did not go easy into that goodnight.

A Killer walking away, in a lackadaisical fashion, splattered with blood and tissue, strolling to the Kitchen, perhaps tapping his hands along way on the walls, as exiting the North door is not something I can reconcile. Maybe 24 hours of sleep could make me consider differently. Again, though, I set out to explain the alcove area

I don’t think anyone suggested the killer walked away in lackadaisical fashion after the murder. I said that he appears to be moving that way BEFORE the murder. AFTER the murder, he is high-tailing it out of there, no question. And that is why I think he is not seen on video again.

 

[Razz]

To the first comment I bolded, if I read you right, you’re implying that maybe LE isn’t telling the truth in saying the attack was not captured on video. While LE is not above lying to the public, it’s a long stretch to believe they would lie to a judge in a sworn affidavit. This is from the SW for Missy’s iPhone and iPad:

As for the second bolded comment – a hammer and a crowbar are great equalizers. A woman can bring down a man very easily; all it takes is to get one blow in. So I can see a woman being able to do that to a woman with these tools.



To the first bolded comment, that is correct when one only considers the targeted scenario. Given LE’s inability to identify a serious suspect, I am back to where I began – a wrong place, wrong time, untargeted scenario. SP happens to be in the bathroom (perhaps actually using the facilities, as he’s been in the building for a half hour and may have found something to drink in the kitchen). MB opens the door to flip on the lights for the campers. The attack may have spilled out into the alcove. Then again, it may have been contained in the bathroom which could help explain why LE could clear the scene as quickly as they did. I wonder if anyone who attended the Wednesday night service remembers a bathroom being blocked off? Or it may not have been blocked off.

To the bolded comment about fake breaching, have you considered that maybe SP was practicing? If I'm burglarizing and don't have much experience with it, I might try a few pry moves but not necessarily stay with it if it appears the door is very secure. I think maybe SP could have just decided it wasn't worth it to continue there.



Bolded point 1 – I don’t think having some blood on him is going to make him slower. I think he ran as fast as he could to get out of there, and maybe he did leave some tracked blood evidence behind which would contribute to LE presuming he left the way he came in.
Bolded point 2 – I don’t believe LE ever said a section of vehicle was seen, although I could be wrong about that. I remember it being something like, “at the edge of the frame of video you can see a vehicle in the distance.” I don’t think it’s ever stated that the car is parked, is it? And given the darkness and the rain, the only thing that SWFA would have reasonably picked up is headlights – which they could have seen the vehicle leaving at 4:30 and know that it’s the killer but not be able to tell anything about the vehicle. And that’s if the video actually came from SWFA – I know that info was in a FB message from MPD so I’m inclined to believe it, but you know how that goes.
Bolded point 3 – Yes, the more I think about it, the smartest place for them to have parked would be around the corner from the kitchen, to the NE.



It’s not that no one suspects. LE checked that out in those very first days. They said no evidence of tampering. Prior to that morning’s events, how would he have been able to approach that camera and disable it in some way without his very approach to the camera being recorded? And what kind of disabling to a security camera can you really do other than smashing it to smithereens?



No, here is my point – in that portion of video, the recording doesn’t immediately begin as soon as SP emerges from the room he entered. Right? The recording picks up when he is already down the hall. So who knows how many seconds have elapsed before the recording picks him up. And that’s with him being in no special rush. See what I’m saying?




I don’t think anyone suggested the killer walked away in lackadaisical fashion after the murder. I said that he appears to be moving that way BEFORE the murder. AFTER the murder, he is high-tailing it out of there, no question. And that is why I think he is not seen on video again.

Ok. This is driving me crazy:

1). Missy enters through the port cochere entrance.
2). She is seen walking down the hall
3). Neither she nor SP are spotted again.

Did she walk down to the main foyer
and turn left into the alcove where the main entrance and big glass doors are.
All that is off camera. The attack takes place here. (I am trying to find the photos that show the EMTs working around something or someone.

If SP bolted out of these front doors
he would not have been seen.

As far as someone else? Maybe another person was in the kitchen helping SP get dressed along with last minute instructions. Maybe he is the one who ditched outside the kitchen door to get the car started while SP was busy taking care of Missy.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

 

[Razz]

Ok. This is driving me crazy:

1). Missy enters through the port cochere entrance.
2). She is seen walking down the hall
3). Neither she nor SP are spotted again.

Did she walk down to the main foyer
and turn left into the alcove where the main entrance and big glass doors are.
All that is off camera. The attack takes place here. (I am trying to find the photos that show the EMTs working around something or someone.

If SP bolted out of these front doors
he would not have been seen.

As far as someone else? Maybe another person was in the kitchen helping SP get dressed along with last minute instructions. Maybe he is the one who ditched outside the kitchen door to get the car started while SP was busy taking care of Missy.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

I also need to say, this was Arkansasmimi's original theory and then someone else who I can't recall
2nded it. But this is the only thing that makes sense.

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[Cannonball3804]

Another comment on the murder possibly occurring in or just outside the bathroom and the killer being a vandal/burglar:

It had been raining profusely that morning, and so I imagine it was a bit humid. The SP has been breaking in, walking around, breaking glass and prying things open now for 30 minutes. And he is wearing a hot helmet. Maybe one of the reasons for going to the bathroom is to get that helmet off for a bit, and maybe the vest, too, knowing that there are no cameras in the bathroom. But the helmet for sure, because he would need to be able to see to unfasten his pants.

People have commented that if it's just a vandalism or burglary, why take the leap all the way to murder? One reason could be, MB opens that door to flip on the light, and there is SP with head uncovered. She's seen him and could identify him.

 

[CoolDude234]

<big snip>

Bolded point 2 – I don’t believe LE ever said a section of vehicle was seen, although I could be wrong about that. I remember it being something like, “at the edge of the frame of video you can see a vehicle in the distance.” I don’t think it’s ever stated that the car is parked, is it? And given the darkness and the rain, the only thing that SWFA would have reasonably picked up is headlights – which they could have seen the vehicle leaving at 4:30 and know that it’s the killer but not be able to tell anything about the vehicle. And that’s if the video actually came from SWFA – I know that info was in a FB message from MPD so I’m inclined to believe it, but you know how that goes.

<smaller snip>

I actually have that bit on hand -- this is one tiny detail I've always been stuck on.

Johnson said a vehicle can be seen on the video may belong to the killer, but there's not enough information to give the public.

"There’s one surveillance camera where you can see the car in the far corner of the frame, parked in the distance. You can't make out a plate, and we're not even comfortable releasing anything about a possible make or model,” Johnson said.

Source

 

[Bill Carson]

One thing to keep in mind: while the SP had to break into the building at one location, they were free to leave from any door. That is to say, the outside doors were locked, and the SP had to break in to get inside the building. However, all of the doors would have been unlocked from the inside, meaning they almost certainly have the push-release panic hardware, so that anyone inside the building can get out at any time, but when locked nobody from the outside can get in.

Does that make sense?

My point is that SP could have left from any exit, and would not have had to break another window or door to get out, and would not have left any indication which door he/she went out, and the door would have locked behind him/her. So I don't know that we can say that they came out the way they came in unless the police have some information to that effect. Maybe they did, but not necessarily.

 

[SteveS]

With all due respect intended to all, I gotta say this circular discussion of "my guess and conjecture vs yours" on virtually everything (because we know virtually nothing) is still leading nowhere other than to guessed thoughts at details that don't really take us anywhere. We've been down this well-trampled path many times. I suspect the police have too (only with even more info than we have, so less pure speculation on some of the facts).

The guessing is interesting, to be sure. But also frustrating to recognize that despite the perp apparently being caught on cam, we really have ended up with essentially nothing because of the disguise.

Problem is, we're left to guess things that don't even help solve the crime. Whether the murder took place in this specific spot or that doesn't eliminate anyone. Whether we might decide they went out this door or that, how they went unseen by cam after the murder, and so on doesn't narrow the almost limitless number of possible perps.

We know the approx time of the crime, the proximate location (and police probably know it precisely), and the weather outside. We know the outerwear disguise of the perp.

But....
Could have been someone she knew. Or not.
Could have had any occupation.
Could have had any reason for being there.
Took an uncertain path away and maybe (but maybe not) by a dark SUV.
The SW's only tell us where LE has looked via warrant - but don't tell us exactly why (other than the broad legalese to justify a search that is speculated by LE to be pertinent to the murder), and aren't really evidence but rather a story of a search for evidence that may or may not even exist.
Could have had help (inside off cam, or outside, or before crime, or after, or all of those). Or not.
Could have been a wide variety of ages.
Could have been church attender there. Or with MB elsewhere. Or not.
Could have had something to do with CG. Or not.
Could have a romantic angle - of any number of variations, and intents, and with any number of underlying romantic scenarios being the motvation. Or not.
Don't even know the sex of the perp. Or hair color. Or skin color.
Not even sure of the height other than a rough range.

So we have guesses at crime facts, and possible details, and at motivations, and at everything else. And guesses in reply. And it's interesting. But such a frustrating dead end.

 

[Cannonball3804]

With all due respect intended to all, I gotta say this circular discussion of "my guess and conjecture vs yours" on virtually everything (because we know virtually nothing) is still leading nowhere other than to guessed thoughts at details that don't really take us anywhere. We've been down this well-trampled path many times. I suspect the police have too (only with even more info than we have, so less pure speculation on some of the facts).

The guessing is interesting, to be sure. But also frustrating to recognize that despite the perp apparently being caught on cam, we really have ended up with essentially nothing because of the disguise.

Problem is, we're left to guess things that don't even help solve the crime. Whether the murder took place in this specific spot or that doesn't eliminate anyone. Whether we might decide they went out this door or that, how they went unseen by cam after the murder, and so on doesn't narrow the almost limitless number of possible perps.

We know the approx time of the crime, the proximate location (and police probably know it precisely), and the weather outside. We know the outerwear disguise of the perp.

But....
Could have been someone she knew. Or not.
Could have had any occupation.
Could have had any reason for being there.
Took an uncertain path away and maybe (but maybe not) by a dark SUV.
The SW's only tell us where LE has looked via warrant - but don't tell us exactly why (other than the broad legalese to justify a search that is speculated by LE to be pertinent to the murder), and aren't really evidence but rather a story of a search for evidence that may or may not even exist.
Could have had help (inside off cam, or outside, or before crime, or after, or all of those). Or not.
Could have been a wide variety of ages.
Could have been church attender there. Or with MB elsewhere. Or not.
Could have had something to do with CG. Or not.
Could have a romantic angle - of any number of variations, and intents, and with any number of underlying romantic scenarios being the motvation. Or not.
Don't even know the sex of the perp. Or hair color. Or skin color.
Not even sure of the height other than a rough range.

So we have guesses at crime facts, and possible details, and at motivations, and at everything else. And guesses in reply. And it's interesting. But such a frustrating dead end.

Exactly. And yet we do it. Because we're invested heavily in this case with our time, our emotions and our intellect, so it makes us feel better to talk about the case, even if that talk is a lot of speculation. The re-tread does help us keep some of the detail foremost in our mind, for that point when new information does come out. For example, I went back to one of the first threads and was reminded that an article in the Midlothian Mirror quoted Johnson saying that tools were found around the crime scene and were being analyzed. I had completely forgot about that and I wonder how many of you did, too?

I think MB looks down on our discussion from where she is, and she's probably glad we're keeping her memory alive by talking about it in whatever way we can.

 

[ezrah]

Just jumping off the last few posts. Thanks to Cannonball we do have a new clues that could be very important. As others here have pointed out, it’s reassuring that FBI and MPD are still working the case imo.


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[ZoriahNZ]

Does anyone possess the December SW? I thought it had been released in January, but still can't seem to find it in a search. As I understand it, Cannonball3804 has released snippets but not linked to the full SW? Is it available online or not?