TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, 18 Apr 2016 #44

[Razz]

A few observations from a long-time lurker.

1. No need to get all hung up on where the true compass directions are for N, S, E, W, or where the church sits in relation to the highway. None of that matters. Clearly LE used the church itself as the directional reference point. We see in their official reports (see the snippet from ECSO) that the side containing the Porte Cochere is referred to as the South end of the church. That makes the main entrance the West. The kitchen side is the North. The side furthest away from the highway is East. It’s been this way from the beginning of the investigation.

2. All the debate about what rooms are on the East hall or the South hall - respectfully we might as well be debating how many chairs will fit in the Sanctuary, for all the relevance it has. It’s pretty clear from the documents available to us that the murder happened along the West hall (most likely the foyer area) and that the break-in and break-out occurred at the back of the kitchen on the North side.

I think there is probably a desire for completeness of the map, which I can appreciate. But the East and South (and Sanctuary) are the least important areas of the church in terms of the murder that occurred. JMOO.

I agree with most of what you've said except for the breakout area being on the north side. Should SP have gone that way, he would have been caught on camera.

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[arkansasmimi]

This may have already been answered but this must be Rm 10 according to the bulletin schedule you posted above. By the ceiling and ducts it looks like it is a room behind the stage to me.

That has always been my thought too Ocgrad. But some just disagree. The ceiling and ducts as we agree are not as any of the other "classrooms". Thanks. Also since room 10 and 12 have been consistent and near room 8. I am back to pondering if that room number is not room 12 but possibly room 10, but keeping open mind. I personally do not know for fact where that camera is located or the room at end of video. So many illusions lol

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by Boudy View Post
Respectfully let me say it another way. I believe that whoever wrote that SW wasn’t the brightest bulb in the pack. I can’t remember who it was. The way the church is oriented to 287 and the way it is oriented to directions of a compass makes saying what area of the church difficult for someone that’s directionally challenged.

I think they thought the front of the building where the main door is faced directly South. So if you were to go through the main door and turn left you would be in the Southwest area of the building according to them.
JMHO
By watching the video we have seen we know that area of the church is out of range of being activating the cameras in the South corner and North corner.
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Yes. If whoever wrote the warrants of even mapped the crime scene assumed that the west side of the building was the south then every time they mention north, south east and west you have to rotate their description (rotate the compass 90 degrees clockwise). It this specific example if the SW says South = West, if it says North = East, if it says West = North, if it says East = South.

If they thought the west side of the building was north then you have to rotate 90 degrees counter-clockwise. Thus North = West, East = North, South = East and West = South.

Of course, this discussion is confusing to those that are directionally challenged.

I would hope for MPD's sake, and the prosecutor's sake that they did not map the crime scene (the whole church building was a crime scene) incorrectly. All of those documents would technically be wrong and a defense attorney would be more than happy to walk each and every person that wrote a report with incorrect directionality in it through their words on the stand to try to introduce doubt with at least one juror.

But that is not what 2 diff LEO stated, and one is in a sworn doc. You have seen the multiple photos of MB truck and how it was parked. It faces the very same direction as the West glass entrance is. So unless you and Boudy disagree that the glass entrance is not in fact West, then every one is messed up as well as your map Jethro . JMHO

The snipped portion from a ECSO report states exactly correct. JMHO

"The tape was marking off a south breeze way/entrance for the church. Inside the yellow tape was a four (4) door Ford truck. The truck was positioned facing west underneath an awning."

 

[Razz]

Well, that’s placing a lot of faith in cameras that, by LE’s admission on several occasions, were quite faulty. Since we haven’t been shown the video post-murder, we don’t know how fast he was moving. I believe an SP who is hoofing it out of there could have easily turned the corner and gone into room 6 before the camera could have caught up.

Shouldn’t we also give weight to Spann’s day 1 belief that he exited the same way he came in? Given the presumed nature of the murder, you’d think that SP left a trail. So wouldn’t it have been pretty clear to them if he went out the W entrance or the NW?

Well, we can only hope SP left a trail. But if SP hi tailed it out the West doors,
the rain probably washed any trail left.

It is just my opinion, but I do think SP may have reentered from the north outside to grab whatever he/she left behind in the kitchen. ie: a duffel bag?

I am making some rather broad assumptions here but....to me, they
are the only ones that make sense.

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[arkansasmimi]

Well, I happen to believe that Missy was killed in the South hallway in the vicinity of the Library (still in the southwest of the building). It isn't clear at all to me that she was found in the main entry area. There is plenty of conjecture, but nothing that convinces me.

One thing for sure, the information posted written by a crime scene person saying that they went to the north side of the building has two implications and only one of them can be true. Either Missy was not found in the southwest of the building or the person writing that report was/is directionally challenged.

Or that the person walked from the South entrance where LEO clarified she did, and walked NORTH straight ahead, Which is what Spann said not in same words but entered and walked down the hallway. None of the tidbits we have seen or heard states MB turned to her right and walked the South hallway. JMHO

 

[Razz]

Agree, there’s a lot of assumption-making here no matter which way we slice it. But just to clarify what I was saying about a trail - I meant an inside trail leading to the exit point, not a trail outside the church. If Missy was killed in or near the W foyer and SP chose to exit that way, you would think there would be blood evidence on the floor going out as transferred from boots, and on the push bar as transferred from gloves. But again, that assumes some things which may or may not be accurate.

I knew what you meant.

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[arkansasmimi]

LE are taught to map a crime scene with North at the top of the page (see p 32 of link):

https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/forensics/Crime-Scene-Investigation.pdf

With Missy’s truck being parked at the Porte Cochere, and that entrance being where the crime scene log and logging officer were stationed and the point of access into the building for all LE, that area became the “bottom of the page”, or South. I believe that if the Porte Cochere had been designed to be on the opposite end of the church, LE would have designated THAT end as South.

I see no reason to wonder if LE is directionally challenged. Their training makes such labeling a no-brainer, something they likely established in the first 30 minutes in my opinion.

:welcome6:
:goodpost: Matches at least 2 documents as well as how Jethro4WS (one you quoted) has his map layout

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Ok so I’m not a directionally challenged person. But many of you here know that I do tend to focus on the **psychological** aspect to cases (& thank you for extending your patience with that aspect).

And on that note, I have a question....

Do you feel that MB’s “advocates” have been notably quiet because:

1. They have reason to be fearful

2. They know who did the murder and feel karma/LE will eventually bring justice

3. They feel that her memory should simply be preserved as is without more ado

What say you?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Well, that’s placing a lot of faith in cameras that, by LE’s admission on several occasions, were quite faulty. Since we haven’t been shown the video post-murder, we don’t know how fast he was moving. I believe an SP who is hoofing it out of there could have easily turned the corner and gone into room 6 before the camera could have caught up.

Shouldn’t we also give weight to Spann’s day 1 belief that he exited the same way he came in? Given the presumed nature of the murder, you’d think that SP left a trail. So wouldn’t it have been pretty clear to them if he went out the W entrance or the NW?

agree, there is also the possibility that motion did click the camera on then off, showing on the actual video, yet the suspect not seen. For example the end of the MPD spliced and zoomed video. There is no one seen on video and the door is closed, yet the camera is filming. Also, as Jethro has speculated prior threads that suspect went ziz zagging throught the sanctuary back over to the NE corner and exited, doesn't make sense to me. If the suspect killed her in the area Jethro speculates, it would be caught at least something of the Suspect leaving that area. Why not just zip on out the NE rear doors? Spann stated on the April 18 press conf that although other windows were busted they had no evidence anyone went through them. (or exited either jmho as the debris would show that)

 

[arkansasmimi]

Cool beans then. You were talking about rain washing it off, so I wasn’t sure.

If there was any blood on boots to have washed off outside, jmho would have to have been prints on inside leading somewhat to an area. I hope they had some glass from broken glass doors that dislodged somewhere shouldn't have been glass. But from media/helicopter videos, we never at least seen anyone doing any castings of prints in the grass areas. So Suspect must have stayed on the sidewalks to vehicle -whichever door exited from. Jmho

 

[arkansasmimi]

If you have a Room Numbered as 14. Please post it.

Room 7 does have two doors. Both of those doors are labeled as 7 in the hallway. Same for Room Number 8. It has two doors and both are labeled on the Hallway wall as 8.

Maybe SP enjoys and really loves looking at brass numbers or illuminating numbers. However, it is clear SP shined SPs light at the number 14 prior to entering the recessed area where 14 leads, apparently, into the Sanctuary, or parts within. What would be your reasoning for SP to shine SPs light on the number 14 prior to entering the recessed doors?


I don't mind my theories being shot down in discussion. The theory of SP shining his light on the number was a guess, a speculation, a possible reason why he shines his light at the # 14. All I know, is SP did illuminate the numbers 14 as SP begins to enter the recessed area.

Honestly DeDee, I am not positive on room numbers on most all the photos I have. Speculating/assumptions many but not 100 on some. And I have never seen the number 14, so I don't know where it would be. Are you saying maybe 14 is the Sanctuary/Worship Center? But I went back and watched the video in slowest speed possible, looked at the extracted frames, I do not see a number that you are saying the Suspect looked at to confirm. I see Suspect walk up to what we know is SW entrance to Worship Center door behind Holy Ground. Suspect raises right hand with hammer, has something in left hand, and the light we see in the room at the end of the MPD video headlight shines quick flashes, at one point the Suspect turns head towards the entrance where MB would enter, but just a quick look then the video goes to next section.

Only rooms I have seen referenced in bulletins or photographs (off top of my head) are
Library, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,10, 11, 12, 13, 15 and 21.

 

[Lily Dumont]

Ok so I’m not a directionally challenged person. But many of you here know that I do tend to focus on the **psychological** aspect to cases (& thank you for extending your patience with that aspect).

And on that note, I have a question....

Do you feel that MB’s “advocates” have been notably quiet because:

1. They have reason to be fearful

2. They know who did the murder and feel karma/LE will eventually bring justice

3. They feel that her memory should simply be preserved as is without more ado

What say you?

They may be fearful. They may be fearful of what other indiscretions may emerge. It may be too close to home for some to dig deeper. JMO

 

[ezrah]

Ok so I’m not a directionally challenged person. But many of you here know that I do tend to focus on the **psychological** aspect to cases (& thank you for extending your patience with that aspect).

And on that note, I have a question....

Do you feel that MB’s “advocates” have been notably quiet because:

1. They have reason to be fearful

2. They know who did the murder and feel karma/LE will eventually bring justice

3. They feel that her memory should simply be preserved as is without more ado

What say you?

I tend to think choice 1 although a combination of 1 & 2 could be it as well. IMHO. Now BB apparently is in the number 3 camp based on his last media interview but he is probably in the minority IMO. What do you think is the reason?




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[Razz]

Ok so I’m not a directionally challenged person. But many of you here know that I do tend to focus on the **psychological** aspect to cases (& thank you for extending your patience with that aspect).

And on that note, I have a question....

Do you feel that MB’s “advocates” have been notably quiet because:

1. They have reason to be fearful

2. They know who did the murder and feel karma/LE will eventually bring justice

3. They feel that her memory should simply be preserved as is without more ado

What say you?

I'd say 1 & 2 but friends may also be afraid of rubbing some people the wrong way and becoming ostracized.

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[arkansasmimi]

Ok so I’m not a directionally challenged person. But many of you here know that I do tend to focus on the **psychological** aspect to cases (& thank you for extending your patience with that aspect).

And on that note, I have a question....

Do you feel that MB’s “advocates” have been notably quiet because:

1. They have reason to be fearful

2. They know who did the murder and feel karma/LE will eventually bring justice

3. They feel that her memory should simply be preserved as is without more ado

What say you?

I am not sure what to think. Of those 3 choices mine would be #1. I of late tend to ponder that she either seen or became aware of something or someone.. maybe drugs or something else along those lines. Would kinda lean towards why the no one speaking out and all sudden they just want to move on. (paraphrasing) JMHO unless they had something to be in fear for, I can't personally understand why would not be wanting to push to find her killer. Killer who is still out there somewhere.

Seems to be lots of drugs and corruption around area. But there were a couple of LEO who wrote SW Affidavits that were members of DEA task force and various other credentials. The current Commander of CID is now Stephen Cooper who wrote the Truck SW. He of all the SW writers was only one who had "certification in immediate crime scene" and not the other credentials. Spann held the position that Cooper now holds. I am wondering if Spann may have retired at end of last year?

 

[ezrah]

I am not sure what to think. Of those 3 choices mine would be #1. I of late tend to ponder that she either seen or became aware of something or someone.. maybe drugs or something else along those lines. Would kinda lean towards why the no one speaking out and all sudden they just want to move on. (paraphrasing) JMHO unless they had something to be in fear for, I can't personally understand why would not be wanting to push to find her killer. Killer who is still out there somewhere.

Seems to be lots of drugs and corruption around area. But there were a couple of LEO who wrote SW Affidavits that were members of DEA task force and various other credentials. The current Commander of CID is now Stephen Cooper who wrote the Truck SW. He of all the SW writers was only one who had "certification in immediate crime scene" and not the other credentials. Spann held the position that Cooper now holds. I am wondering if Spann may have retired at end of last year?

Spann is Commander of Emergency Management Midlothian and last tweeted under that title Feb. 16.


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[arkansasmimi]

From thread 38 Jethro4WS post 62 https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-38&p=13065412#post13065412

Jethro4WS 01-12-2017, 10:18 AM#62

It isn't that it is important that it had to happen there. It is just what I get from what MPD said and their descriptions and my own interpretation of what SP was doing in their movements throughout the church based on the video we have. I can't get past the idea that Missy would ignore those Dutch Doors as they look like they were thrown open and not just opened. I could see her ignoring the door open in west hall as it would look like just an open door. There is more than enough glass there to meet the a lot of glass found around her body requirement considering the wall and doors to the library are glass and don't look all that different than the entry doors we see from that same camera view to the right (with the exit sign).

Because the Dutch Doors were open like that we know it affects just how far the camera there can detect motion anywhere down the hall where the top part of the open dutch door blocks the sight lines down the hall. We saw the camera cut off where SP was at the door just beyond the Dutch Doors (about 20 feet down the hall) but we see that when SP came back down that hall it picks SP up about 10-12 feet further down the hall. So, if Missy went down that hall and anywhere to the right of the middle of that hall the camera there would have lost her motion sooner.

Also I can't get past how it was described about Missy entered and then walked off camera - you have to watch and listen to it rather than read the transcripts - as it sounds to me like he is describing a single scene and I don't believe they would have been stitching video together by that time so that leads me to believe it came from a single camera view and that can only be the camera looking down the South hall.

I don't see how MPD doesn't have video of SP larger than life walking toward cameras in the NW or SW corners of the building getting to where Missy was killed if she wasn't killed where I think. Those kinds of videos should have at least provided a decent screen cap or three that might better help to identify SP or their gear and tools. I can't believe that if MPD had such things they wouldn't have released them instead of having people trying to identify a person by a gait.

That is where I start with this - where she was killed. And then work the crime backwards and forwards from there. It isn't the case of needing that specific location to be where Missy was killed to shoehorn some aspect of this crime or a POI. The specific location is, however, important to understanding the crime and who might have killed Missy no matter where that location is in the church.

If Missy were killed where I believe she was then that means SP was not only aware of the cameras but knew much more about them since getting out of the church from that location in the South hall would require knowing a lot more about the church as well. If she was not killed where I believe then I have to rework the entire crime from a blank slate.

I can only work with the same things that are available to everyone else. I just see them differently than many others. So I am stuck where I am at until I see some evidence that makes it not possible. I am quite okay with being wrong.

This was right at 13 months ago wow :blushing: But anyway I seem to get sense your theory hasn't changed, much anyway.

"We saw the camera cut off where SP was at the door just beyond the Dutch Doors (about 20 feet down the hall) but we see that when SP came back down that hall it picks SP up about 10-12 feet further down the hall. "

is assuming we know if whether the video is spliced at that point or if it is natural/originally factual. JMHO I think it could be either. All I know for sure is that we see it because of the fact the MPD wanted us to see the gait and mannerisms of the Suspect.

"Also I can't get past how it was described about Missy entered and then walked off camera - you have to watch and listen to it rather than read the transcripts - as it sounds to me like he is describing a single scene and I don't believe they would have been stitching video together by that time so that leads me to believe it came from a single camera view and that can only be the camera looking down the South hall."

Not true. We know there are 2 cameras in that area where MB entered. One looking down the main hallway towards the North and the other looking down the South hallway towards the East. So your theory is coming from what was said on video from April 18 press conf? JMHO from watching all we have and read, it could very well have came from 1 camera from what we are told of her walking ... jmho.

Just trying to see if I can figure out from what we know to understand why you still believe the way you do. Just find it interesting.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Spann is Commander of Emergency Management Midlothian and last tweeted under that title Feb. 16.


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GOOD DEAL!!! I knew from MPD FB he was awarded 25 yrs Dec 2016 and was last in a Google news report in Dec 2017. Thanks!!

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'd say 1 & 2 but friends may also be afraid of rubbing some people the wrong way and becoming ostracized.

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Because of how profoundly quiet they all are, my answer is a combination of all 3.....

Which is very worrisome....

 

[SteveS]

Ok so I’m not a directionally challenged person. But many of you here know that I do tend to focus on the **psychological** aspect to cases (& thank you for extending your patience with that aspect).

And on that note, I have a question....

Do you feel that MB’s “advocates” have been notably quiet because:

1. They have reason to be fearful

2. They know who did the murder and feel karma/LE will eventually bring justice

3. They feel that her memory should simply be preserved as is without more ado

What say you?

None of the above. Instead,

4 They see how the internet trolls and social media crucify BB for speaking to the public (when he speaks) and then for not speaking (when he doesn't speak) ...and they see how those attackers work hard to twist and nitpick his every word choice into some sort of negative ... and as a result have decided they have no desire to be crucified as well. So they do their "input" regarding the case privately, directly to LE, rather than in front of microphones and cameras.