Found Deceased TX - Thomas Brown, 18, Hemphill County, 23 Nov 2016 #2

[OutWest]

Didn't PK say he saw it in the Town Hall last month? I am pretty sure he said he had seen it as well as someone else in his office.

Yes, he stated that he and two others on his staff had seen the photo. I have also heard him say that during an interview several years ago.

 

[Razz]

Is CM TB's stepfather and husband to Penny? I don't recall hearing much about him. Obviously there was some reason for him to be a person of interest. I can see why as he was supposedly the only one unaccounted for (as far as the family goes) at the time the Durango pulled into the gate and was parked.

I hate being such a dimwit and my memory doesn't seem up to snuff, but was the father in law ever discussed?

 

[tamsidea]

@Razz - who's FIL do you mean?

 

[tamsidea]

I'm curious what others of you think about the article the editor of the local newspaper wrote after the secret recording of the meeting with the OAG surfaced? Sure made the contentious atmosphere in Canadian even more contentious...

 

[OutWest]

I'm curious what others of you think about the article the editor of the local newspaper wrote after the secret recording of the meeting with the OAG surfaced? Sure made the contentious atmosphere in Canadian even more contentious...

Yes, the Canadian Record's article added to the contentious situation. However, it is my belief that contention was already rising at the time. The OAG investigators made it very clear that the 8/21/2019 meeting was not for public disclosure. No press/media were allowed. Then, the top law enforcement officer of Hemphill County allegedly took it upon himself to secretly record the meeting, then apparently selectively distribute.

I have listened to the recording and noted a few things that could have been added or corrected for better context in the editorial. A couple of examples:

• editorial did not mention that ...... Smyth stated, “While the evidence produced in the investigation is sufficient to produce suspicion and conjecture, there is not sufficient evidence for a criminal trial. The investigation has been complicated and compromised by public speculation and information”.
• editorial incorrectly stated ....... that multiple searches occurred to a suicide hotline and that Kading was unable to get content of subsequent phone calls from the hotline admin personnel. Hotline admin stated they do not keep any recordings. In actuality, there was a single search for the hotline at 9:11 PM (IMO, presumably while Tom was with CW and KK) and no indication from phone records that any phone calls were made to the hotline (that is publicly known).

Just my opinion.

 

[jellybean96]

I'm curious what others of you think about the article the editor of the local newspaper wrote after the secret recording of the meeting with the OAG surfaced? Sure made the contentious atmosphere in Canadian even more contentious...

I think the editor has lost any credibility.

 

[Razz]

@Razz - who's FIL do you mean?

Step father.

 

[8th Bob-White]

Michael Castletine, Chris Jones, and Rick Ivy I believe.

So, is Rick Ivy the cousin who told Penny he saw Tom pumping gas at Fronk's but didn't stop...and later changed his story that he didn't see Tom pumping gas? If not, was he part of the football team or is there another connection to MC & CJ that be obvious why Klein also named him?

 

[OutWest]

So, is Rick Ivy the cousin who told Penny he saw Tom pumping gas at Fronk's but didn't stop...and later changed his story that he didn't see Tom pumping gas? If not, was he part of the football team or is there another connection to MC & CJ that be obvious why Klein also named him?

I don't know who he is or why Klein named him. The is no "Ivy" on recent football rosters.

 

[theceilingfan]

I don't know who he is or why Klein named him. The is no "Ivy" on recent football rosters.

I believe RI is allegedly connected to NL as someone who, again allegedly, would do “things” for NL in an unofficial capacity..

 

[8th Bob-White]

I don't know who he is or why Klein named him. The is no "Ivy" on recent football rosters.

Thanks...I didn't think to check the football rosters...only tried google & didn't come up with much

I believe RI is allegedly connected to NL as someone who, again allegedly, would do “things” for NL in an unofficial capacity..

Thanks for the update...it's got me curious to say the least

 

[Ssschu]

That's the golden clue for sure.

I should clarify I don't have a problem with the validity of the facts, they just lead in a direction that is problematic, especially for the discussion here. We knew a lot of this, but it is different seeing it put out over and over again across several documents going to the highest level of investigation.

THOMAS BROWN’S IPHONE
 During a search conducted in October 2017, an iPhone was located that was later confirmed through digital forensics as belonging to THOMAS BROWN.
 Phone was analyzed by the FBI, OAG Digital Forensics, and an independent digital forensics expert.
 The phone contains THOMAS BROWN’S data. This data cannot be transferred from phone to phone because it contains internal applications that are connected to the IMEI of the device purchased from Verizon Wireless.
 IMIE Number of Phone is xxxxxxxxxxx7160 and matches Verizon wireless records and box that phone came in provided by family.
 SIM card # xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx3865 was activated with this iPhone and was verified by Verizon Wireless. This sim card has never been placed in another phone per Verizon Wireless.  The search for a suicide hotline occurred at 9:11 pm. This entry cannot be altered on the phone because all activity is timestamped. [Report Attached]
 The phone died at 12:23 a.m. on November 24, 2016. It was not shut off.
penny has the charging case, even though electronic data indicates the phone died in the charging case that night.
The phone never had power again until it was powered on by the FBI after it was discovered in October of 2017.
 The phone was in almost perfect condition- no scratches, nicks etc. FBI confirmed the moisture indicators had not been activated on the phone. Although it is not impossible the phone had been outside since November 24, 2016, it is not probable. The area where the phone was found had been recently mowed and had been mowed several times over the summer. Hemphill County received approximately 26 inches of rain from November 24, 2016 to October 14, 2017. [Sourced from Rainfall. Snowfall. Temperature. - A simple way to get weather history totals for your city or town..] There was also a severe ice storm on January 15, 2017.
 PENNY MEEK texted a witness in January of 2017 asking if their child knew the passcode to THOMAS BROWN’S phone and clarified this was a four-digit number. The child began asking numerous friends if they had the passcode. The circumstances surrounding the passcode created misinformation that HCSO had asked for the passcode in 2017. The investigative team has confirmed that HCSO did not ask the family for the passcode in 2017.
View attachment 318494

The digital forensic evidence indicates that it is more likely than not the battery case was on THOMAS BROWN’S phone the night of his disappearance. The phone records show a “plug in”/charging event earlier in the evening while THOMAS BROWN was at his house. There is never an “unplug” event the rest of the evening suggesting that the “plug in” event was the result of the built-in battery charging case attached to the phone and not another type of charging source that would require an “unplug” event before relocating the phone. Further evidence to support this theory are that THOMAS BROWN’S friends stated he was religious about keeping his phone charged and that he almost always had his battery charging case on the phone.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.go...old Case Missing Person Unit Press Packet.pdf
------
In addition to the above, the doc also presents evidence that:
- Penny asking Caleb to ask around for the phone passcode made him look sus early on. None of us like Clapp very much, but he wasn't wrong in thinking Caleb asking for the passcode was weird.
- Tucker shared the iCloud account with Tom, and all of his data was intact, but Tom's was missing.
- Tom's facebook account was deleted. Penny blames Klein, Klein blames Penny(although it seems this was done prior to Klein being involved). Neither have any reasonable explanation for why they would delete the fb account of a missing person.
- Tom's instagram was never touched, assuming no one knew that password. Login • Instagram
-Penny initially claimed the fb account was hacked. If that was true, why didn't they hack his instagram, too?
- The last call to Tom's phone was Penny, not Saige as previously reported.

Not being able to objectively explore all angles, due to our attention being so forcibly directed at LE, has been the haunting of this case IMO. The above highlights issues and questions that need resolution for the question of how Tom died to get any closer to an answer.

Yes, all of this needs to be addressed to ever come to a legitimate conclusion on what happened that night.

Also add in this info from the AG:

"Jun 6th, 2018 - C: D+L warrants issued for Penny and Chris Meek. Warrant states that their polygraph results indicate deception: Penny - Having TB's phone, contact after his disappearance, and moving TB's body. Chris - Moving TB's body."

 

[Ssschu]

I would be following the money to include the AG's office.

I always become suspicious when LE does everything in their power to push a narrative they know does not make sense, and the narrative they are pushing just does not fit.
They know it, we know it, and the family knows it.
Penny chose to pursue this even though she knew that their family were the ones being targeted, and continues to look for the answers.

As another poster stated when the truth comes out about the "under belly" of Canadian, this case may then make sense.
Something is very wrong here.

They are pulling records months and years after he went missing.
In my mind the facebook episode is a red herring.

The same could be said for how hard PK has been pushing his nonsensical narrative. It's hard to fully trust either side.

 

[OutWest]

As everybody who has been following this case already knows, there is a lot of muddy water that tends to distract from the main objective regarding what actually happened to Tom Brown. At the very least adds unnecessary complexity. With that being said, there absolutely are a lot of unusual twists that provide questions that need answers.

In my opinion, the two most unusual “twists” in the case are, 1.) the mysteriously appearing iPhone along with related information that OAG has put forth, and 2.) the loss or destruction of CCTV evidence from Dollar General and Fronk Oil; coincidentally (?) the two most critical locations related to November 23, 2016. No other CCTV data at other locations was “lost”; only the CCTV data from the area that Tom was last known to be. Think about that.

Two main things stand out to me regarding the case information that was provided by AOG prior to Klein’s public meeting. First, AOG investigators have apparently conducted a very extensive investigation (35 items forensically analyzed, 71 witnesses interviewed/contacted, 9 polygraphs, 9 formal searches, 150 warrants & subpoenas, 9 trips to Canadian). Second, with the exception of phone forensic results, AOG did not provide any result data regarding the results of 14 search warrants listed within the packet. None. So, IMO, one must conclude that they have a LOT of material that they did not disclose, understandably so. Bottom line, their information packet provided only info to “prove” that they have worked extensively on the case. Nothing much more of substance. But, based on the extent of their investigation they have a significant amount of information, much of it circumstantial, that they are sitting on.

A lot has been said about who failed certain questions during polygraph exams (NL, PM, CM). Polygraphs are limited from the standpoint of accurately determining truth which is why polygraph results are not allowed as evidence in court. The results of a polygraph exam can be significantly influenced by emotion and apprehension. In some cases the “deception” indicators are accurate but in some cases the “deception” indicators are due simply due to normal stress and apprehension, not lying. Results are subject to loose interpretation. Polygraph results are simply a tool that LE uses in an aggressive post exam interrogation where the person may be confronted to explain the "deception". Unless some sort of a confession is obtained during the post exam interrogation, results are subject to human interpretation, at best. Just like any other occupation, skill levels (and bias) vary among investigators. They are not all equal.

Regarding nonsensical theories that muddy the water, IMO:

· Any indication that the Brown/Meek family members were involved in Tom’s death and/or were involved with stashing his body in the remote countryside; then conducting a 5 year charade to attempt to place blame on others. I understand certain questions raised by the phone forensic report ….. but beyond that is bordering on bizarre.

· Any belief that CJ was blindfolded and transported by NL to some nearby secret location where he was allowed to view Tom alive and tied to a chair. How crazy is that? (But one must wonder the reason why CJ would come up with such a bizarre story; that may be another discussion ….)

· Based only on a few phone communication between friends in Denver and Canadian, the belief by local LE for months that Tom was somehow secretly living/hiding with a friend in Denver. Must have been embarrassing for those involved once Tom’s remains were found. That somehow does not give me confidence that some of the local investigators have a necessary degree of logical sense.

· The claim that Fronk video was useless because camera(s) were pointed toward the ground. Would a business install expensive CCTV equipment then point their cameras away from business traffic? I don’t believe so.

· Canadian is widely known for having top notch athletic and academic programs within their school system. Any unfounded claims otherwise only serve to create distraction and divisiveness, especially when based totally on the wildly bizarre story as told by CJ.

About Klein; much has been said about Klein regarding what some say is damage to the case. I too have observed some actions or comments on his part that I question. Then I think back to the very early stage of the case when, along with the stress and emotion due to a missing child, there were obvious red flags that the investigation was not being competently handled. Maybe even some suspicious events. Under the circumstances, I can fully understand why PM and family were desperate to have outside help with the case. I would likely have taken the same course in that situation. Despite all of the alleged controversy over Klein, I will note that while local LE were spending their time chasing ghosts in Denver, Klein organized a grid search along Lake Marvin Road that turned up evidence that would otherwise likely never have been discovered.

Of course, just my opinion based on what I observe ......

 

[OutWest]

So, where was CM from midnight until 6a.m.? (And I'm not talking about PM or making any bizarre theories yet.) It's a legitimate question.

@Razz, based on a couple of past interviews that PM had, CM stayed home during the time that PM and TB (w/friend) were initially searching so that he would be home in case Tom showed up. PM arrived back home at approx. 1:45 AM and made calls to KK's mother, then to the HCSO shortly after 2:00 AM. PM & CM reportedly remained at the house waiting for a Deputy to show up. Deputy arrived at about 3:45 AM and picked up TB. Deputy returned TB home at around 6:00 AM. PM stated that she and CM resumed a search at around 6:30 AM then arrived at the Sheriff's office at around 7:30 AM to discuss.

 

[Razz]

Just curious, but was high school football big in Canada? I'm thinking about some of the documentaries made on TX football and how it was a big deal. But one would think with all the college and professional teams in TX, that high school would not be a "big" thing with the locals, but......

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

As everybody who has been following this case already knows, there is a lot of muddy water that tends to distract from the main objective regarding what actually happened to Tom Brown. At the very least adds unnecessary complexity. With that being said, there absolutely are a lot of unusual twists that provide questions that need answers.

In my opinion, the two most unusual “twists” in the case are, 1.) the mysteriously appearing iPhone along with related information that OAG has put forth, and 2.) the loss or destruction of CCTV evidence from Dollar General and Fronk Oil; coincidentally (?) the two most critical locations related to November 23, 2016. No other CCTV data at other locations was “lost”; only the CCTV data from the area that Tom was last known to be. Think about that.

Two main things stand out to me regarding the case information that was provided by AOG prior to Klein’s public meeting. First, AOG investigators have apparently conducted a very extensive investigation (35 items forensically analyzed, 71 witnesses interviewed/contacted, 9 polygraphs, 9 formal searches, 150 warrants & subpoenas, 9 trips to Canadian). Second, with the exception of phone forensic results, AOG did not provide any result data regarding the results of 14 search warrants listed within the packet. None. So, IMO, one must conclude that they have a LOT of material that they did not disclose, understandably so. Bottom line, their information packet provided only info to “prove” that they have worked extensively on the case. Nothing much more of substance. But, based on the extent of their investigation they have a significant amount of information, much of it circumstantial, that they are sitting on.

A lot has been said about who failed certain questions during polygraph exams (NL, PM, CM). Polygraphs are limited from the standpoint of accurately determining truth which is why polygraph results are not allowed as evidence in court. The results of a polygraph exam can be significantly influenced by emotion and apprehension. In some cases the “deception” indicators are accurate but in some cases the “deception” indicators are due simply due to normal stress and apprehension, not lying. Results are subject to loose interpretation. Polygraph results are simply a tool that LE uses in an aggressive post exam interrogation where the person may be confronted to explain the "deception". Unless some sort of a confession is obtained during the post exam interrogation, results are subject to human interpretation, at best. Just like any other occupation, skill levels (and bias) vary among investigators. They are not all equal.

Regarding nonsensical theories that muddy the water, IMO:

· Any indication that the Brown/Meek family members were involved in Tom’s death and/or were involved with stashing his body in the remote countryside; then conducting a 5 year charade to attempt to place blame on others. I understand certain questions raised by the phone forensic report ….. but beyond that is bordering on bizarre.

· Any belief that CJ was blindfolded and transported by NL to some nearby secret location where he was allowed to view Tom alive and tied to a chair. How crazy is that? (But one must wonder the reason why CJ would come up with such a bizarre story; that may be another discussion ….)

· Based only on a few phone communication between friends in Denver and Canadian, the belief by local LE for months that Tom was somehow secretly living/hiding with a friend in Denver. Must have been embarrassing for those involved once Tom’s remains were found. That somehow does not give me confidence that some of the local investigators have a necessary degree of logical sense.

· The claim that Fronk video was useless because camera(s) were pointed toward the ground. Would a business install expensive CCTV equipment then point their cameras away from business traffic? I don’t believe so.

· Canadian is widely known for having top notch athletic and academic programs within their school system. Any unfounded claims otherwise only serve to create distraction and divisiveness, especially when based totally on the wildly bizarre story as told by CJ.

About Klein; much has been said about Klein regarding what some say is damage to the case. I too have observed some actions or comments on his part that I question. Then I think back to the very early stage of the case when, along with the stress and emotion due to a missing child, there were obvious red flags that the investigation was not being competently handled. Maybe even some suspicious events. Under the circumstances, I can fully understand why PM and family were desperate to have outside help with the case. I would likely have taken the same course in that situation. Despite all of the alleged controversy over Klein, I will note that while local LE were spending their time chasing ghosts in Denver, Klein organized a grid search along Lake Marvin Road that turned up evidence that would otherwise likely never have been discovered.

Of course, just my opinion based on what I observe ......

Agree on every point (including the “one must wonder the reason why CJ would come up with such a bizarre story,” because I most certainly have thought about it).

I remember when hearing about “Ghost Tom” in Denver for the first time in one of Skip’s podcast episodes. I was driving and shouted immediately, “Just send a patrolman from Denver PD over!” But of course they didn’t because they knew Tom was not going to be there. They dragged it on for months, and brought Christian into it (kept harassing her is more like it, IMO). It was ridiculous.

As far as the Fronk’s cameras purportedly pointed at the ground, as soon as I read it, I asked my daughter the same question because it made no sense to me. But then I don’t own a gas station, so who knows … .

Post of the day. Bravo!

 

[Quill]

Just curious, but was high school football big in Canada? I'm thinking about some of the documentaries made on TX football and how it was a big deal. But one would think with all the college and professional teams in TX, that high school would not be a "big" thing with the locals, but......

I'm not from Texas, but I'll answer you to my knowledge. I am from a southeastern US state and high school football is HUGE here. I think it is an even BIGGER deal in Texas, though I cannot answer for specific towns. Whether high school, collegiate or professional, most of this region takes football pretty seriously. If you have never seen the show Friday Night Lights, I suggest watching it. Besides being adding what Ho11yw00d adds, it will give you an idea of what Friday night HS football means to a small town. Heck, our small town team even has an artificial turf field and a nice stadium.

 

[Razz]

As everybody who has been following this case already knows, there is a lot of muddy water that tends to distract from the main objective regarding what actually happened to Tom Brown. At the very least adds unnecessary complexity. With that being said, there absolutely are a lot of unusual twists that provide questions that need answers.

In my opinion, the two most unusual “twists” in the case are, 1.) the mysteriously appearing iPhone along with related information that OAG has put forth, and 2.) the loss or destruction of CCTV evidence from Dollar General and Fronk Oil; coincidentally (?) the two most critical locations related to November 23, 2016. No other CCTV data at other locations was “lost”; only the CCTV data from the area that Tom was last known to be. Think about that.

Two main things stand out to me regarding the case information that was provided by AOG prior to Klein’s public meeting. First, AOG investigators have apparently conducted a very extensive investigation (35 items forensically analyzed, 71 witnesses interviewed/contacted, 9 polygraphs, 9 formal searches, 150 warrants & subpoenas, 9 trips to Canadian). Second, with the exception of phone forensic results, AOG did not provide any result data regarding the results of 14 search warrants listed within the packet. None. So, IMO, one must conclude that they have a LOT of material that they did not disclose, understandably so. Bottom line, their information packet provided only info to “prove” that they have worked extensively on the case. Nothing much more of substance. But, based on the extent of their investigation they have a significant amount of information, much of it circumstantial, that they are sitting on.

A lot has been said about who failed certain questions during polygraph exams (NL, PM, CM). Polygraphs are limited from the standpoint of accurately determining truth which is why polygraph results are not allowed as evidence in court. The results of a polygraph exam can be significantly influenced by emotion and apprehension. In some cases the “deception” indicators are accurate but in some cases the “deception” indicators are due simply due to normal stress and apprehension, not lying. Results are subject to loose interpretation. Polygraph results are simply a tool that LE uses in an aggressive post exam interrogation where the person may be confronted to explain the "deception". Unless some sort of a confession is obtained during the post exam interrogation, results are subject to human interpretation, at best. Just like any other occupation, skill levels (and bias) vary among investigators. They are not all equal.

Regarding nonsensical theories that muddy the water, IMO:

· Any indication that the Brown/Meek family members were involved in Tom’s death and/or were involved with stashing his body in the remote countryside; then conducting a 5 year charade to attempt to place blame on others. I understand certain questions raised by the phone forensic report ….. but beyond that is bordering on bizarre.

· Any belief that CJ was blindfolded and transported by NL to some nearby secret location where he was allowed to view Tom alive and tied to a chair. How crazy is that? (But one must wonder the reason why CJ would come up with such a bizarre story; that may be another discussion ….)

· Based only on a few phone communication between friends in Denver and Canadian, the belief by local LE for months that Tom was somehow secretly living/hiding with a friend in Denver. Must have been embarrassing for those involved once Tom’s remains were found. That somehow does not give me confidence that some of the local investigators have a necessary degree of logical sense.

· The claim that Fronk video was useless because camera(s) were pointed toward the ground. Would a business install expensive CCTV equipment then point their cameras away from business traffic? I don’t believe so.

· Canadian is widely known for having top notch athletic and academic programs within their school system. Any unfounded claims otherwise only serve to create distraction and divisiveness, especially when based totally on the wildly bizarre story as told by CJ.

About Klein; much has been said about Klein regarding what some say is damage to the case. I too have observed some actions or comments on his part that I question. Then I think back to the very early stage of the case when, along with the stress and emotion due to a missing child, there were obvious red flags that the investigation was not being competently handled. Maybe even some suspicious events. Under the circumstances, I can fully understand why PM and family were desperate to have outside help with the case. I would likely have taken the same course in that situation. Despite all of the alleged controversy over Klein, I will note that while local LE were spending their time chasing ghosts in Denver, Klein organized a grid search along Lake Marvin Road that turned up evidence that would otherwise likely never have been discovered.

Of course, just my opinion based on what I observe ......

Well, if what you say is true, and if TB was murdered, someone or somebodies have been putting on a charade for 5 years, regardless of who it is.

 

[griss]

Just curious, but was high school football big in Canada? I'm thinking about some of the documentaries made on TX football and how it was a big deal. But one would think with all the college and professional teams in TX, that high school would not be a "big" thing with the locals, but......

High School Football in Texas is HUGE! While I am actually from Missouri, my son played in a National Football Tournament in 8th Grade. The team (which I helped coach) made it to the Final Four in San Antonio. We played our games there in High School stadiums. Those stadiums were MUCH larger than any High School stadiums I have seen in Missouri, Kansas or Illinois. In fact, my son also played football for a Division 3 College for 4 years. Those High School stadiums in San Antonio were even larger than any College stadium my son played in.