TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

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If it makes you fell better to think that- fine. Police officers save lives every day-- duty or no duty. Certainly their actions (in this case inaction) should not cost lives- but in this case it did.
In this situation they had a duty to do everything to take that shooter down- which would have resulted in saving lives. Why do you think it would be important to take the shooter down? TO SAVE LIVES. Goodness gracious!

Again, there is no *legal* duty to save lives that are not in police custody. Certainly a moral/ethical duty, but not a Constitutional one. This is why, when people claim that “heads will roll” for failure to follow active shooter protocol, I suggest that nothing will happen because there’s simply no *legal* obligation on police to do anything. This was attempted after Parkland, and failed. These two articles give a good overview of the subject, one from 2005 and one from post-Parkland.


“U.S. District Judge Beth Bloom said neither the school nor sheriff’s deputies had a legal obligation to protect students from the alleged shooter, Nikolas Cruz, who is accused of killing 17 people at the school Feb. 14. Her reasoning? The students were not in state custody.”

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone (Published 2005)
 
Again, there is no *legal* duty to save lives that are not in police custody. Certainly a moral/ethical duty, but not a Constitutional one. This is why, when people claim that “heads will roll” for failure to follow active shooter protocol, I suggest that nothing will happen because there’s simply no *legal* obligation on police to do anything. This was attempted after Parkland, and failed. These two articles give a good overview of the subject, one from 2005 and one from post-Parkland.


“U.S. District Judge Beth Bloom said neither the school nor sheriff’s deputies had a legal obligation to protect students from the alleged shooter, Nikolas Cruz, who is accused of killing 17 people at the school Feb. 14. Her reasoning? The students were not in state custody.”

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone (Published 2005)

Here's a question what about firemen?

Can they stand back and refuse to do their job too?

I'm not upset with you btw, so please do not take this question as such. Legally can they stand back too?
 

Uvalde High School Senior describes what Salvador Ramos was like before the mass shooting​



Ivan, a former classmate of the shooter wants the world to know the truth about the shooter -- confirming what most of us already know -- typical mass shooter profile-- right down to torturing animals.

The RED FLAGS were all there.
Can we discuss a National Registry of juvie animal torture as a preventable measure?
I reported Lukeluka Magnotta for the kitten torture videos he sent to me, he threatened to kill me personally I forwarded them to the FBI they said they did not see his actions to be of any concern he later killed another student in Canada.
If juvie records can be accessed for background checks? if so let's do it!
 
Here's a question what about firemen?

Can they stand back and refuse to do their job too?

I'm not upset with you btw, so please do not take this question as such. Legally can they stand back too?

I understand your question, don’t worry. I don’t know. I’ll have to research that one. The vast majority of duty-to-protect cases do not involve firefighters. (And when I say “duty,” I mean a legal/Constitutional duty, not a moral duty or a duty found in something like an employee manual or protocol).
 
"run to the gun" - joey jones, fox news. caveat - he said this speaking as ex-military. he didn't excuse LE, but said they aren't necessarily trained the same way.

adam lanza shot his way into sandy hook. flip your thinking - perhaps if the teacher hadn't unwittingly propped the door there would've been even more fatalities.

of all the pressers/research/fact-finding, not one "official" has followed the money. some of you believe that working part time at a wendy's paid for thousands in weapons and ammo. i will agree to disagree.

i have three teenage boys. i blame the parents. kids who are ignored commit crimes. period. my unsolicited advice? it's so damn simple - raise your children. keep an eye on their friends. and if they don't have any? that's a problem.

see you on the unfortunate next case...

I do agree keep your eye on your kids/teens. THey can be secretive but family and close friends would be privy to RED FLAGS first.
I would like to say we could meet up next when they find the Delphi Killers etc...on a much more positive note. Thank you.
 

Uvalde police chief who delayed officer response to shooting to join City Council​


May 27, 2022, 5:04 PM EDT
By Safia Samee Ali
The police chief who reportedly made the call not to immediately send officers into Robb Elementary School to confront a gunman was elected to Uvalde's City Council just three weeks ago after running on a platform of communication and outreach to the community.
Peter Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, stopped at least 19 officers from breaking into the school as the gunman opened fire for at least an hour.



I have no words.......................................................................



ETA: Well, actually I do but I can't say them on here.....................................
I feel that as a school district cop, he was in way over his head...
Even traffic cops encounter more danger on a daily basis


In Texas, many City Council jobs are part time
If he had been a city employee, he would have had to resign to run for City Council (Conflict of interest)

However the law seems to states he can keep his job at the school district and serve on City Council..
In San Antonio, one of mayors taught an evening class at public university (1980's)


Dual Office Holding Limitations Made Easy
Under most circumstances, an ordinary law enforcement officer is not considered an officer for
purposes of constitutional dual office holding limitations.18 Therefore, it is possible that a city
police officer or deputy sheriff could hold another public office if the two offices were not
considered incompatible. For example, a city police officer is not prevented from serving as an
elected city council member for a different city within the same county
.
 
This was a wake up call for small town police, teachers at small town schools, and people on social media who see disturbing posts that need to be reported.

I think most of his messages were private, hence they were only known after the fact.

People just thought he was "weird"...
He was corresponding with people that didn't know him in person

OTOH - I believe "It can't happen here" attitude was a good reason why the response was the way it was...

I don't mean to disparage small towns in any way, but I do think that a lack of experience compared to a big city does factor in, as well as whatever distance is required for the tactical police to arrive. I don't know, was the nearest team in San Antonio or something and had to be called in from there?

I always do admit that here in NYC there is crime, of course, so a very experienced NYPD, which has seen everything, clearly cannot stop all crime. But I also do believe, since they HAVE seen everything, that the response would have been immediate and that a SWAT team would have been onsite in minutes.

There is a very strong ethos in LE, as with the military, that a chain of command must be obeyed. I do see the news now (on all MSM and linked previously) that the tactical cops were desperate to go in, feel now that they look like cowards, and eventually would not obey command anymore and went in. I believe they will be haunted forever that children were being slaughtered on the other side of the door which they were forbidden to breach.

I know that as a mom and grandma and aunt, if any of my little ones were trapped inside, I too would try to enter the school. The rational part of me knows I may have been killed and therefore could not rescue my kids, but it would be unbearable for me to bide my time outside when I see the police outside and not inside. Or knowing they are inside for an hour but not bringing out my kids.

As to SR contacting other teens online and hinting at his plans, I blame whomever is responsible at this Yubo site for not informing Texas police immediately after receiving messages from SR's contacts.

What is a 15-year old girl in Germany supposed to do, other than contacting Yubo, as she claims? She's 15, a youngish teen. Is she going to infer that this stranger is serious? Is she going to have the mental and emotional wherewithal to alert some authority who can contact Texas police? Did she even know his actual location? Would she even tell her parents? I assume there are many trolls on these sites. She may not even have understood the implications, since this doesn't seem to happen as much in Europe.

Even the girl whom he threatened to rape, did she tell her parents or contact authorities? Did she know he was in this little town of Uvalve, Texas?

But the Yubo people should have been able to tell where SR's messages were originating from, so it's my opinion that they should have responded immediately to the messages they were getting from SR's contacts and alerted the local LE in Uvalve.

JMO
 

Uvalde police chief who delayed officer response to shooting to join City Council​


May 27, 2022, 5:04 PM EDT
By Safia Samee Ali
The police chief who reportedly made the call not to immediately send officers into Robb Elementary School to confront a gunman was elected to Uvalde's City Council just three weeks ago after running on a platform of communication and outreach to the community.
Peter Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, stopped at least 19 officers from breaking into the school as the gunman opened fire for at least an hour.



I have no words.......................................................................



ETA: Well, actually I do but I can't say them on here.....................................

wait...communication to those in need?
wow...
He wasn't too great with communication with those in need. I'm sure there's much more to this but damn. No words.
 
I don't mean to disparage small towns in any way, but I do think that a lack of experience compared to a big city does factor in, as well as whatever distance is required for the tactical police to arrive. I don't know, was the nearest team in San Antonio or something and had to be called in from there?

I always do admit that here in NYC there is crime, of course, so a very experienced NYPD, which has seen everything, clearly cannot stop all crime. But I also do believe, since they HAVE seen everything, that the response would have been immediate and that a SWAT team would have been onsite in minutes.

There is a very strong ethos in LE, as with the military, that a chain of command must be obeyed. I do see the news now (on all MSM and linked previously) that the tactical cops were desperate to go in, feel now that they look like cowards, and eventually would not obey command anymore and went in. I believe they will be haunted forever that children were being slaughtered on the other side of the door which they were forbidden to breach.

I know that as a mom and grandma and aunt, if any of my little ones were trapped inside, I too would try to enter the school. The rational part of me knows I may have been killed and therefore could not rescue my kids, but it would be unbearable for me to bide my time outside when I see the police outside and not inside. Or knowing they are inside for an hour but not bringing out my kids.

As to SR contacting other teens online and hinting at his plans, I blame whomever is responsible at this Yubo site for not informing Texas police immediately after receiving messages from SR's contacts.

What is a 15-year old girl in Germany supposed to do, other than contacting Yubo, as she claims? She's 15, a youngish teen. Is she going to infer that this stranger is serious? Is she going to have the mental and emotional wherewithal to alert some authority who can contact Texas police? Would she even tell her parents? I assume there are many trolls on these sites. She may not even have understood the implications, since this doesn't seem to happen as much in Europe.

Even the girl whom he threatened to rape, did she tell her parents or contact authorities? Did she know he was in this little town of Uvalve, Texas?

But the Yubo people should have been able to tell where SR's messages were originating from, so it's my opinion that they should have responded immediately to the messages they were getting from SR's contacts and alerted the local LE in Uvalve.

JMO

Ever try to report threats to the FBI as an adult?
I reported Luka Magnotta for the kitten torture videos he sent me. They DID NOT CARE. I did not know where he lived then but they said it's no nig deal.
They were wrong he went off to murder another student in Canada.
 
I do agree keep your eye on your kids/teens. THey can be secretive but family and close friends would be privy to RED FLAGS first.
I would like to say we could meet up next when they find the Delphi Killers etc...on a much more positive note. Thank you.
Not calling you out, just jumping off your post :)

Does it sound like they had concerns about their son?

 
"run to the gun" - joey jones, fox news. caveat - he said this speaking as ex-military. he didn't excuse LE, but said they aren't necessarily trained the same way.

adam lanza shot his way into sandy hook. flip your thinking - perhaps if the teacher hadn't unwittingly propped the door there would've been even more fatalities.

of all the pressers/research/fact-finding, not one "official" has followed the money. some of you believe that working part time at a wendy's paid for thousands in weapons and ammo. i will agree to disagree.

i have three teenage boys. i blame the parents. kids who are ignored commit crimes. period. my unsolicited advice? it's so damn simple - raise your children. keep an eye on their friends. and if they don't have any? that's a problem.

see you on the unfortunate next case...
BBM

I have thought about this as well. Just do the math - let's say (I'll use these numbers as estimations as we don't have factual numbers) -
He worked at Wendy's part time
Part time is "usually" 20 hours per week. I'm going to low ball this and say that HE worked 15 hrs per week.
His hourly wage - (we know fast food does not pay well so I'm going to high-ball this one) $10. per hr
Gross wages per week - 10 x 15 = 150.
Per Month - 150 x 4 = 600.
I heard or read somewhere that he worked there approx 1 year.
Per year - 600. x 12 = 7200.
Now that's 7200. before taxes - I'll be generous here and say taxes would have been $1200.

So, IF he saved EVERY dollar from EVERY paycheck - he could have saved up $6000.

That seems to cover the 2 AR-15's - but he also bought all that ammo and a handgun.

And then there's this -
He had 60 high capacity magazines! From what I understand these mags are illegal - so that adds to the mix - how did he get them? from where? and you know he paid a pretty penny for each one. LE is not talking about these and I've listened carefully - all they have officially said was the number of mags they found and where they were found - whether they were loaded or empty and there was some about casings, both unfired or spent.

LE has not addressed any of what I have spoke of above. But its the money - where did he get the money - how were these things paid for. Could be as simple as he stole it from grandma - but I don't know - I smell a trail here..................................
 
I don't mean to disparage small towns in any way, but I do think that a lack of experience compared to a big city does factor in, as well as whatever distance is required for the tactical police to arrive. I don't know, was the nearest team in San Antonio or something and had to be called in from there?
The SWAT team who took down the shooter is a Border Patrol SWAT Team. I read they were in the Del Rio area at the time of the shooting.
Their home base ironically is Uvalde.

The Uvalde Police Department also has a SWAT Team..
But who knows if they were deployed etc?

FTygC1aXwAEP5R7
 
The law is very clear that while police enjoy tremendous discretion in ascertaining whether someone is a threat to police, police have no duty to save lives.

The law is different in Canada, but I don’t see how this technicality applies to this situation.

The NYT published what is required of the police in this type of shooting. The person in charge held back the officers from doing their duty, according to their own written procedures.

Ultimately the purpose of the procedures is to preserve the lives of the teachers and children.
 
The law is different in Canada, but I don’t see how this technicality applies to this situation.

The NYT published what is required of the police in this type of shooting. The person in charge held back the officers from doing their duty, according to their own written procedures.

Ultimately the purpose of the procedures is to preserve the lives of the teachers and children.

There’s the legal duty and then the duty set forth in the protocol. Two different things.
 
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