Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

[wfgodot]

:seeya:
I wondered if you'd turn up and I see other familiar faces are here too: wfgodot and Clio!

Do you think William Clegg will represent MB? The case is right up his alley.

A welcome reunion - on another sad occasion. I was expecting to see more Yeates-thread faces here, actually, than we've had.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I don't think this is necessarily true at that age. I have seen lay-science shows on TV where they demonstrate stages of child development. I think 5 is still within the age where a child is not aware what the other person probably knows and vary what they say to the context of what that other person knows.

And the "it's alright I know them" would probably be a fairly direct iteration by April of the rule April thought she was following when deciding to get into the van - ie "Don't get into a car with anyone unless you know them" - answer = "It's ok I know them" or "it's not ok I don't know them"

Another observation on use of word "them" is that if for instance I know a family, as a family, then I see just one of them in the street, say hello and then explain to the person I was out with already who the person was I just said hello to, I would say "that's so-and-so I know them because they live round the corner" referring to the whole set of people I feel conceptually he is part of. There are so many idiomatic uses of the word "them" that I think in normal speech it really is hard to know other than by having had it already stated whether there was one or more people involved, whether this was intended as a singular or plural.

I have also heard a lot of welsh conversation and a lot would say "them" rather than him/her as part of the dialect.

 

[jigzy]

The intensely focused and painstaking searches of the River Dulas North of the larger River Dyfi (this is the smaller river that tumbles rapidly over large rocks under a deep shelter of trees that we have seen in the past few days on TV with water search & rescue workers completely immersed in water) makes me think that the LE are expecting to find evidence that is, shall I say 'small but widespread'.
Due to the car trouble I think the bin bag is significant.
jmo.

 

[Sarah]

There is a thread on here about them.

New Evidence - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Three youths convicted of the most disgusting child murders merely because one (slightly lower IQ) was essentially bullied into confessing.

They spent their adolescence in jail protesting their innocence, and in fact DNA evidence implicating one of the victims stepfather was ignored and this guy still walks around unchallenged.

The boys were lucky not to be executed and now their conviction has been overturned, sort of, if you can call being released under vague terms overturned. They remain on all sorts of probation conditions however.

Insanity.

Thank you . I'm off to have a read now.
I really don't recall this ever being reported on in the UK which surprises me.

 

[Clio]

Mick Haynes, the area manager for Machynlleth leisure centre said members of his staff had been deeply affected by recent events
......
He added April had been at the centre having a swimming lesson only two hours before she went missing.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/2...eturn-to-normal-91466-31998906/#ixzz28pJtzWBU

 

[veggiefan]

The intensely focused and painstaking searches of the River Dulas North of the larger River Dyfi (this is the smaller river that tumbles rapidly over large rocks under a deep shelter of trees that we have seen in the past few days on TV with water search & rescue workers completely immersed in water) makes me think that the LE are expecting to find evidence that is, shall I say 'small but widespread'.

That's a gruesome thought, but not implausible, and could certainly account for sufficient forensic evidence for the CPS to be confident in the murder charge.

I have thought from the outset that the river system would have played a major role in the tragedy. Somebody posted earlier that they thought the Dyfi was too shallow, but in full flood it is often more than 3 metres deep at Machynlleth Bridge (which is the only obstacle before the open sea). It seemed to me to be clear from the fact that many of the searchers had to secured to ropes held by people on the banks that the river is treacherous when full and running fast. Also, the Dyfi is tidal up to a couple of miles below Machynlleth and, on the night in question, there was an outgoing tide after 10pm.

Even the Dulas, which flows from behind MB's rented cottage down to the Dyfi, is deep enough to have seen a man drowned trying to save his child back in 2010.

I think it likely that when MB was seen on the banks of the Dyfi, and later arrested close to the river, he was checking that no evidence was visible on the foreshore or stuck on the supports of the arches of Machynlleth Bridge.

Of course, one should only go on evidence, but I really felt that an innocent person would have expressed outrage or bewilderment at Aberystwith Magistrates Court when faced with the charges. To me, the tears seemed acknowledgement of the awful consequences of what was perhaps a moment of madness.

 

[jigzy]

Agreed Veggiefan - If I were innocent I would scream at the top of my voice that I didn't do it.

 

[Insp.Dots]

The point I was getting at is that it was VF who used the word "them", and she probably used it because she herself did not know at that stage who was in the car: a man, a woman or more than one person. It was a third-hand account of what the seven-year-old witness told her April said.

(In fact it's a fourth-hand account because it's come via a reporter, so unless the interview was recorded, we can't be sure that those were VF's exact words anyway.)

Half of what was said was dis-credited by April's Mum. She was so upset by the report that she put up a notice to say that what had been said in that report and about April and her friend being in the car 2/3 days earlier was complete rubbish made up by reporters!!

 

[jigzy]

......she put up a notice to say that what had been said in that report and about April and her friend being in the car 2/3 days earlier was complete rubbish made up by reporters!!

Maybe not by reporters but someone who knew AJ's dna would be discovered in his vehicle and wanted to provide a reasonable explanation in advance. Just a thought.

 

[Insp.Dots]

That's a gruesome thought, but not implausible, and could certainly account for sufficient forensic evidence for the CPS to be confident in the murder charge.

I have thought from the outset that the river system would have played a major role in the tragedy. Somebody posted earlier that they thought the Dyfi was too shallow, but in full flood it is often more than 3 metres deep at Machynlleth Bridge (which is the only obstacle before the open sea). It seemed to me to be clear from the fact that many of the searchers had to secured to ropes held by people on the banks that the river is treacherous when full and running fast. Also, the Dyfi is tidal up to a couple of miles below Machynlleth and, on the night in question, there was an outgoing tide after 10pm.

Even the Dulas, which flows from behind MB's rented cottage down to the Dyfi, is deep enough to have seen a man drowned trying to save his child back in 2010.

I think it likely that when MB was seen on the banks of the Dyfi, and later arrested close to the river, he was checking that no evidence was visible on the foreshore or stuck on the supports of the arches of Machynlleth Bridge.

Of course, one should only go on evidence, but I really felt that an innocent person would have expressed outrage or bewilderment at Aberystwith Magistrates Court when faced with the charges. To me, the tears seemed acknowledgement of the awful consequences of what was perhaps a moment of madness.

I agree, I have actually been fishing and for walks there several times with my family and I would reiterate just how close to the sea that spot is, IF that is where she went in at around that time she could easily have been swept right out to sea.
It is a beautiful spot but also very dangerous, I totally respect all those rescue workers who have indeed risked their own lives in the hope of finding poor April.
I think they have the right man, the look in his eyes in the police pic, in my opinion is full of 'knowing and maybe acceptance of the heinous crime committed'. I would SO love to be wrong in that!!
I just hope the family can find some ending to this but I fear it could be never properly accounted.

 

[Clio]

According to sky reports this was a 7yr old who was with the Police giving a statement to this affect on the Tuesday. I do know that happened as I know someone who knows the little girls Mum. (I realise that part is hearsay but i'm pretty sure that is correct)

Not hearsay. From http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

@ 09:17 on Tuesday 2nd Oct

In the statement below, the police described the details of what happened to April as "vague"- and Detective Superintendent Reg Bevan of Dyfed-Powys Police has said this is due to the young age of the potential witnesses.

He told the BBC:

"It's a delicate and difficult process interviewing young children who were the witnesses to this. That's continuing - it commenced last night and it will continue this morning and hopefully I will have more information for you later."

@12:05 on Tuesday 2nd Oct

Police say they are still in the process of interviewing the witnesses – all of whom are children – which is a "delicate and time-consuming process".

@12:10 on Tuesday 2nd Oct

Police will now be re-interviewing the child witnesses to try to firm up an account of what happened,

 

[Insp.Dots]

Maybe not by reporters but someone who knew AJ's dna would be discovered in his vehicle and wanted to provide a reasonable explanation in advance. Just a thought.

Ooo, good thought!! I was slightly surprised that CJ would comment at all, but she was very upset by it....As i have said before there are several who will not believe he is capable of hurting AJ until they see/hear evidence.
Everyone knows and appears friendly on that estate, alot are inter related by marriage etc.
I do wonder if the upset CJ felt was more general because it was VF who had spoken out to the reporters and of course her own worry that false info was going out which wouldn't help the search.

 

[Insp.Dots]

With regard to whether he had any criminal record.
He was a Lifeguard quite recently at the Leisure Centre, which would have required an enhanced CRB check I think.

 

[Inge Jones]

I feel really sorry for this guy, for some reason. Well I feel sorry for anyone who has killed someone without setting out to do so, actually. One moment that can ruin so many people's lives in one sweep, and if you are *normally* a reasonably caring or normal person, then you're going to be devastated yourself at what you've done - to say nothing of the consequences to yourself.

 

[wfgodot]

April Jones search: Police chaplain 'There has simply got to be hope'

The specialist search teams hunting for missing Machynlleth schoolgirl April Jones have been told a “miracle” could happen and she could still be found alive.

Dyfed Powys Police chaplain Tom Evans sent a message of hope to the officers involved in the search for the five-year-old as well as to the wider community.

Mr Evans, who led a service for officers and search volunteers ahead of a procession for April in the town on Sunday, said: “There has simply got to be hope.

“You don’t know what has happened. A miracle could have happened and little April could still be alive and we need to keep that hope close to our hearts for the community of Machynlleth.”
---

more at the link

One wonders if he cleared this with the chain of command.

 

[cluciano63]

I feel really sorry for this guy, for some reason. Well I feel sorry for anyone who has killed someone without setting out to do so, actually. One moment that can ruin so many people's lives in one sweep, and if you are *normally* a reasonably caring or normal person, then you're going to be devastated yourself at what you've done - to say nothing of the consequences to yourself.

But we don't know what the intentions may have been. And what if he killed her so that she could not tell on him for something he may have done to her? Either way, he presumably took her away to do something harmful to her.

 

[opalsqueak63]

April Jones search: Police chaplain 'There has simply got to be hope'

more at the link

One wonders if he cleared this with the chain of command.

OMG! I find that deeply shocking and irresponsible, if the police have evidence that April is dead. Sometimes, the police will take local community leaders into their confidence in order to help the community accept - and you think they would have done this with their own chaplain! Not in this case, obviously. Giving people hope where there is none is not helpful at all. Why is he saying there has got to be hope or there is despair? What? He is supposed to be a Christian in which case if April is dead, she is in a better place with God! This whole case gets stranger and stranger.

 

[wfgodot]

OMG! I find that deeply shocking and irresponsible, if the police have evidence that April is dead. Sometimes, the police will take local community leaders into their confidence in order to help the community accept. Not in this case, obviously. Giving people hope where there is none is not helpful at all.

Totally agree. If she's not found and evidence is borderline as to whether she is alive or dead, I can hear these words being referred to at trial by Bridger's attorney.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I feel really sorry for this guy, for some reason. Well I feel sorry for anyone who has killed someone without setting out to do so, actually. One moment that can ruin so many people's lives in one sweep, and if you are *normally* a reasonably caring or normal person, then you're going to be devastated yourself at what you've done - to say nothing of the consequences to yourself.

I have to admit I've felt that way too, I will be really interested to find out IF he is Guilty what it was that made him 'flip'. I say flip as from all I'm reading he was a pretty 'normal' individual!

 

[Dr. Know?]

'Please don't stop searching': Desperate neighbours of missing April Jones urge hunt for five-year-old to continue until she is found


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-found.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline