Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

[LegallyBrunette]

That's interesting thanks.

Does anyone know if that is normal procedure in such a case? I would expect anyone who'd seen anything to have phoned in by now.

Sometimes people are a bit oblivious, may not have seen news for a while, or not realised they'd seen something important.

 

[Clio]

Some extracts with direct quotes from Supt John regarding the 7 year old witness.

April and best friend MH, aged seven, were playing on their bicycles near their homes when the van pulled up.

M is the key witness and was able to give police a crucial description of the driver. April’s parents had been at a parents’ evening at her primary school to see April’s teachers. Supt John explained: “The children were playing in a small group originally, but just two of them were there when April went into the van.

“They were playing very, very closely to the house.”

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/349748/Desperate-search-for-5-year-old-April-Jones

Superintendent Ian John confirmed the main witness was a seven-year-old girl.

He added: “She saw her walking willingly into the van on the driver’s side."

"We are treating the witness with a great deal of sensitivity and specialist officers trained to deal with children are slowly and precisely interviewing her.”

Mr Bevan added: “The indications are that April got into the vehicle willingly. There’s nothing to suggest at this stage there was a struggle.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/april-jones-missing-friend-begged-1357238

 

[Sarahlou]

Personally I do not support the death penalty, as I believe thou shalt not kill is true in all directions. I was just trying to reason out the difference between the two views of an offender committing suicide - on the one hand a final act of contrition/shame/closure and on the other hand a cowardly way to escape punishment.

Agreed. I don't believe in killing for any reason (well, unless in self defense). I think the death penalty is barbaric, and I'm glad we don't have that in the UK.

I'm still hoping April will be found but I wouldn't be surprised if she never was.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm late to this topic and still reading through the previous threads, but this caught my eye:

Fairly recently in the UK, a person held pending trial confessed to a priest, the priest was in a right dilemma between confidential confession and sharing a material fact he'd learnt. I can't remember the outcome, was it Vincent Tabak?

Yes it was. VT was told that what he said to the prison chaplain would be confidential. So he admitted killing Joanna Yeates. Turns out it wasn't confidential so he could no longer plead not guilty so his only defence was manslaughter. Didn't work - he was found guilty of murder

As far as I recall, what Tabak told the priest was that he was going to plead guilty to having killed Joanna. So as his intention was to own up to the crime anyway, I can understand how the priest might not have seen it as being confidential like a simple confession would be.

 

[Cherwell]

I saw that there was some debate about the use and implication of the word "them". I would say that it's generally used about an individual when you don't want or need to specify their (his or her!) gender, or when you don't know it.

However, from the article linked by Alyce, it's clear that the whole account was a paraphrase. It's more likely that April actually said "I know him"

Mum-of-two V**** *advertiser censored***** told how the two close friends had been playing together when the kidnapper struck.

The 25-year-old added: “The two girls went out together and we’ve been told by the seven-year-old that April got into a vehicle parked behind the garages.

"It was wet and cold and the other girl told April not to get into it. But April said: ‘It’s all right, I know them’.

“I think the girl was the only person who was with April. She is the last person to see her.

“I was told April was in the same vehicle two or three days ago. On that occasion three children got into the vehicle but one girl is denying it.”

April’s friend said she climbed into a left-hand drive van willingly.

The arrested man was named locally as Mark Bridger, a swimming pool attendant.

Neighbours say he has a daughter about April’s age.

We now know that this witness was MB's ex-girlfriend. I've removed the full name.

 

[Amber34]

That's interesting thanks.

Does anyone know if that is normal procedure in such a case? I would expect anyone who'd seen anything to have phoned in by now.

I agree with what you are saying, but there is always that chance that someone may recall something. I think the authorities are doing every thing they can to recover April, and this is just one of those 'things'.

It's a bit like the reconstructions acted out on Crimewatch I guess - nothing jogs peoples memories like being there again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/crimewatch/

 

[Agatha Krispy]

Ok,im now thinking he wouldnt have put her in the river,even in spate it really isnt that big or deep.He wouldnt put her in upstream for fear she was pushed down and got entangled near the town and he wouldnt have dumped her near the town for fear she didnt get washed away.
I feel at this moment shes out in the countryside,hes got a 4x4 and could easily do miles across the counryside just by going through farmers fields and rights of ways etc and never be seen from the road.
He was seen in his 4x4 crunching gears,thats could be the clutch on its way out and that could be the result of going up steep inclines or being stuck and revving the engine out.And again just guessing but if hes expeienced in off road driving i doubt that would happen but,if he was panicking or drunk then his driving would be terrible..

I said exactly the same thing many posts ago. Steep inclines and rough terrain = mashing gears/worn out clutch. All that forestry and edge of Snowdonia National Park. It's bleak and at night you never see a soul up there.

 

[Agatha Krispy]

If the witness was not MH but VF's daughter, she would have known MB as her mother dated him. These people mixed with MB. If AJ had said "it's alright I know them" and it was MB, whilst talking to VF's daughter, surely AJ would have said "it's alright, it's Mark!"

 

[Inge Jones]

If the witness was not MH but VF's daughter, she would have known MB as her mother dated him. These people mixed with MB. If AJ had said "it's alright I know them" and it was MB, whilst talking to VF's daughter, surely AJ would have said "it's alright, it's Mark!"

I don't think this is necessarily true at that age. I have seen lay-science shows on TV where they demonstrate stages of child development. I think 5 is still within the age where a child is not aware what the other person probably knows and vary what they say to the context of what that other person knows.

And the "it's alright I know them" would probably be a fairly direct iteration by April of the rule April thought she was following when deciding to get into the van - ie "Don't get into a car with anyone unless you know them" - answer = "It's ok I know them" or "it's not ok I don't know them"

Another observation on use of word "them" is that if for instance I know a family, as a family, then I see just one of them in the street, say hello and then explain to the person I was out with already who the person was I just said hello to, I would say "that's so-and-so I know them because they live round the corner" referring to the whole set of people I feel conceptually he is part of. There are so many idiomatic uses of the word "them" that I think in normal speech it really is hard to know other than by having had it already stated whether there was one or more people involved, whether this was intended as a singular or plural.

 

[Somerset_sleuth]

If the witness was not MH but VF's daughter, she would have known MB as her mother dated him. These people mixed with MB. If AJ had said "it's alright I know them" and it was MB, whilst talking to VF's daughter, surely AJ would have said "it's alright, it's Mark!"

Exactly my thoughts on this too! just doesn't add up somehow.

 

[Somerset_sleuth]

it will be interesting to find out if forensics found anything in his car or home & what they did find, hair and fibers from April could be in his car anyway as she had been in there a few days before (possibly even wearing the purple coat at the time) & also when he had taken the children crabbing, he had moved house so more than likely moved his belongings using his car, so hair/fibers could have also been transfered to his home at the same time, couldn't they?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Exactly my thoughts on this too! just doesn't add up somehow.

Do they think there might have been someone with him?

 

[Clio]

If the witness was not MH but VF's daughter, she would have known MB as her mother dated him. These people mixed with MB. If AJ had said "it's alright I know them" and it was MB, whilst talking to VF's daughter, surely AJ would have said "it's alright, it's Mark!"

But we know the witness was not VF's daughter. The witness was MH who is the daughter of a neighbour of the Jones.

 

[Sarahlou]

it will be interesting to find out if forensics found anything in his car or home & what they did find, hair and fibers from April could be in his car anyway as she had been in there a few days before (possibly even wearing the purple coat at the time) & also when he had taken the children crabbing, he had moved house so more than likely moved his belongings using his car, so hair/fibers could have also been transfered to his home at the same time, couldn't they?

They must have found pretty significant forensic evidence to charge him with murder. Not just a few hairs from when she'd been in his car before!

 

[wfgodot]

Anything halfway-specific about where they're searching today, besides just "land around Machynlleth"?

 

[Clio]

Anything halfway-specific about where they're searching today, besides just "land around Machynlleth"?

Not seen anything much at all. Tiny snippet at end of the video in this link says they've been searching this morning "near where MB lives"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-19880689

Sky News video in this link here. Town and river area.

http://news.sky.com/story/995324/april-jones-police-promise-to-keep-up-search

Heart stopping moment earlier when Dyfed Powys tweeted (in Welsh) that there would be a press conference at 3:00pm today shortly followed by another tweet to say it was a delayed translation from last Saturday.

Also seen a few tweets from various journalists saying they are leaving Machynlleth today.

 

[Jasper52]

Leave your messages of support for April's family here:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/a...-april-s-family-91466-31996660/#ixzz28olUuvWX

 

[YidArmyRach]

So, as things stand at present, without a body, I think this is going to be a hard case to prove when it comes to trial.

Its going to rest on speculation at this rate, as they won't even be able to provide a cause of death, let alone a motive.

I wonder if that is to MB's advantage or disadvantage. Jurors could get blinded by science if the entire case rested on complicated forensic science. Without a body, I think I'd be reluctant to find anyone guilty if I was on a jury - just because there would always be a nagging doubt that she just might be out there somewhere, or that what happened is different to what has been deduced. I guess the forensics must be very conclusive in this case, to go for a murder charge, rather than manslaughter.

However, I still find it hard to believe MB had murder in mind when he first invited April into his van - if indeed it was him. It was all done in the open, with no attempt to cover up what was happening, and with at least one witness present. I still think it could have been some kind of accident.

 

[Cherwell]

And the "it's alright I know them" would probably be a fairly direct iteration by April of the rule April thought she was following when deciding to get into the van - ie "Don't get into a car with anyone unless you know them" - answer = "It's ok I know them" or "it's not ok I don't know them"

The point I was getting at is that it was VF who used the word "them", and she probably used it because she herself did not know at that stage who was in the car: a man, a woman or more than one person. It was a third-hand account of what the seven-year-old witness told her April said.

(In fact it's a fourth-hand account because it's come via a reporter, so unless the interview was recorded, we can't be sure that those were VF's exact words anyway.)

 

[bijoux]

I'm late to this topic...

:seeya:
I wondered if you'd turn up and I see other familiar faces are here too: wfgodot and Clio!

Do you think William Clegg will represent MB? The case is right up his alley.