Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #6 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Uchiki Kuri]

Fair enough but that is a young kid's experience (all been there at some point!) But MB not young, had obviously seen life etc

I don't think age makes any difference to whether one is susceptible to alcohol-induced blackouts

 

[southernnana]

Welcome to Websleuths Uchiki Kuri


:wagon:

 

[veggiefan]

Pictures of his garden had recycling bins full of wine bottles and beer cans, on a weekly recycling rota there

If he drank all that himself id say he was alcoholic, or at least a heavy binge drinker, still an alcoholic does not make a murderer ever on its own

I should think it was more than likely that all those bottles and cans were from prior to when he moved into the house a few weeks earlier, and had just been collected up by MB and/or the landlord. The property had been empty for a long time, and it's quite possible that some group had held a rave in the garden and outbuildings, or that squatters had broken into the house.

 

[veggiefan]

I was looking at missing people in Wales and was surprised to see another girl who was from machynlleth disappeared 1 Sept 2003 Natalie Putts.

Have you got a reference for that? The only ones I can find say that Natalie Putt disappeared from her home in Dudley, which is in the West Midlands, nearly 100 miles from Machynlleth.

 

[Adorabella]

Pictures of his garden had recycling bins full of wine bottles and beer cans, on a weekly recycling rota there

If he drank all that himself id say he was alcoholic, or at least a heavy binge drinker, still an alcoholic does not make a murderer ever on its own

Eta ive posted this before however much of a blackout one has one never forgets if one murdered someone, they may forget where they got rid of the body though

Morning! Only valid if he put his recycling bins out weekly. We might look like we use a lot of bottles (!) but we only put ours out when it's eventually full. Takes a long while. Perhaps he had a house warming!

 

[BritsKate]

Have you got a reference for that? The only ones I can find say that Natalie Putt disappeared from her home in Dudley, which is in the West Midlands, nearly 100 miles from Machynlleth.

Indeed she did. Natalie was originally from Machynlleth and still has relatives in the area. She moved to West Mids when she was 9 but still went back to visit. (What's sad is that I live within 10 miles of Dudley and have never heard of her. )

I don't believe there's any connection personally - other than a coincidence. JMO

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/26684/

 

[TulipaNoir]

I was looking at missing people in Wales and was surprised to see another girl who was from machynlleth disappeared 1 Sept 2003 Natalie Putts. Also strange incident with a missing woman in aberystwyth. Also is it just me or does MB, clive sharp and the man who ran down all them women and children look alike??

I thought MB and Clive Sharpe looked alike in the court drawings (by the same artist). I haven't seen a picture of Clive Sharpe yet. Shall look at it.

 

[TulipaNoir]

I should think it was more than likely that all those bottles and cans were from prior to when he moved into the house a few weeks earlier, and had just been collected up by MB and/or the landlord. The property had been empty for a long time, and it's quite possible that some group had held a rave in the garden and outbuildings, or that squatters had broken into the house.

Or maybe he had had visitors over for a drink? Or maybe he didn't put his recycling out every week?

Sorry Adorabella I see you covered this (that'll teach me to post before reading ALL new posts)

 

[Insp.Dots]

I thought as we are 'getting so stuck in a rut'. I'd have a trawl back through the limited reports we have to work on.

London's Evening Standard newspaper has quotes from April's godmother, Mair Raftree, about the impact on the family:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

BBM

I was the first person Coral called. She was absolutely devastated. She was in shock. She was upset, saying ‘April’s gone. She was put in a van. She was taken away’.

I told her to call the police immediately and she said she was about to. She called me first because she was in a state of shock. She had just been told by April’s little friend that she was snatched. I was just gobsmacked. It didn’t register until I’d put the phone down.


16:02 BST

I am quite possibly over-analyzing but I thought it may bring some new idea's so please just bear with me, or ignore the whole thing if you prefer!!

Why did Coral ring God-Mother before the police?
To get some kind of advise before phoning the police, shock?

Maybe Coral at that point knew it was Mark, and something had been said by him or someone that she didn't really want getting out?

Put yourself in MR shoes MOST would say..."who cares whats happened just ring the Police they need to know!!" Or something similar!

Why so I think this possible?
BECAUSE MR also said "She called me first because she was in a state of shock"

Why did she feel the need to say that?

Maybe she was just shocked, or MR herself thought it odd Coral rang her first. Or Something had happened/been said and MR 'instinctively' explained the reason for Coral ringing her as she thought it may be questioned.

I may be way off the mark...I just thought I'd try putting myself in these peoples shoes and think about the reactions to things I'd have.

I believe that 99% of Mothers would "immediately" ring the police, No-one would stop that even if over-reaction was thought, Instinct would make you virtually scream for help!
For the record I don't blame Coral in 'ANYWAY' for what has happened to April, I have purely bought this up as it is in the MSM and I'm trying to open my mind to ALL possibilities.

Thoughts on this please?

 

[BritsKate]

I have an anecdote I can offer. A few years back my children's primary school rang to say my son never showed up for school - this was 3 hours after he was due. My daughter, two years his senior, stated she thought he went to a canal/park nearby. I was absolutely panicked but I didn't call the police either - I called my husband to see what he thought I should do. I didn't even think about it. I don't handle stress/panic well at all and he's the one I usually bounce my worries off of. It was just second nature to reach out to him.

Fortunately it was an oversight by the parent teacher coordinator. My then 7 year old son had been in his class the entire time. I was furious.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I should think it was more than likely that all those bottles and cans were from prior to when he moved into the house a few weeks earlier, and had just been collected up by MB and/or the landlord. The property had been empty for a long time, and it's quite possible that some group had held a rave in the garden and outbuildings, or that squatters had broken into the house.

Maybe, but it was reported the Owner had come down to rent it out so you'd think he would have left it in a decent state if anyone had illegally entered or a rave had taken place.
I think as someone else mentioned it's possibly a months worth, definately more than a week. But my Bro and sis-in-law have a bottle of wine every day and he has a couple of beers a night....soon adds up!

 

[TulipaNoir]

I thought as we are 'getting so stuck in a rut'. I'd have a trawl back through the limited reports we have to work on.

London's Evening Standard newspaper has quotes from April's godmother, Mair Raftree, about the impact on the family:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

BBM


I am quite possibly over-analyzing but I thought it may bring some new idea's so please just bear with me, or ignore the whole thing if you prefer!!

Why did Coral ring God-Mother before the police?
To get some kind of advise before phoning the police, shock?

Maybe Coral at that point knew it was Mark, and something had been said by him or someone that she didn't really want getting out?

Put yourself in MR shoes MOST would say..."who cares whats happened just ring the Police they need to know!!" Or something similar!

Why so I think this possible?
BECAUSE MR also said "She called me first because she was in a state of shock"

Why did she feel the need to say that?

Maybe she was just shocked, or MR herself thought it odd Coral rang her first. Or Something had happened/been said and MR 'instinctively' explained the reason for Coral ringing her as she thought it may be questioned.

I may be way off the mark...I just thought I'd try putting myself in these peoples shoes and think about the reactions to things I'd have.

I believe that 99% of Mothers would "immediately" ring the police, No-one would stop that even if over-reaction was thought, Instinct would make you virtually scream for help!
For the record I don't blame Coral in 'ANYWAY' for what has happened to April, I have purely bought this up as it is in the MSM and I'm trying to open my mind to ALL possibilities.

Thoughts on this please?

It could be that she didn't want to be a nuisance to the police and needed advice from a good friend. I seem to vaguely remember that the police usually don't take a missing person seriously until 24 hours have passed. Of course in the situation of a missing child this is probably different.

What I do find odd is that she straightaway said that April had been snatched, or words to that effect. All she would have known by then was that April got willingly into a 'van', told by the child witness.

 

[veggiefan]

Maybe, but it was reported the Owner had come down to rent it out so you'd think he would have left it in a decent state if anyone had illegally entered or a rave had taken place.

That was my point. There'd been a tidy up and the bottles and cans were awaiting collection.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Fair enough but that is a young kid's experience (all been there at some point!) But MB not young, had obviously seen life etc

True, but not sure age would make a difference necessarily, MB was used to drink allegedly but when upset some people are said to drink until they can 'blot' everything out....they drink to forget.

He may not have blacked out at all, just drunk SO much that it affected his memory.
Part of my theory is that he had been drinking slowly right through the previous day and night, he went to Parents evening and although nothing has been mentioned to him being drunk, there was erratic driving around the same time.
If someone is used to drink and they are not known personally, it wouldn't maybe be noticed as much.
He came away from the school and if timings are correct shortly arrived at the estate, we also don't know but he may have gone into see ED and report back or just see his kids.

Something caused him to take April, I think possibly revenge for whatever, he wasn't planning to kill her. But after leaving he may have panicked or April got upset, she would very quickly have been questioning his actions and crying for her Mum, maybe this 'alerted' his state and he lost concentration and tried to 'shut her up', panicked....something......then he went about trying to cover his actions or possibly carried on drinking and left it until the next day ??

The police seemed to take at least 12/24 hours before they started questioning....why the delay?? Possibly waiting on a solicitor but also possible wait for a doctor confirmation he was sober enough to interview.
Although they would have been desperate for info on April, the police CANNOT interview while someone is under the influence of drink/drugs.

The Police said they were trying to weave together information they were getting from him to what they were getting from witnesses.

All the more hard if someone is saying they can't remember or keep changing the story.

It took some kind of breakthrough for the murder charge to come and then the perverting charge.

I think the perverting charge came because the Police are concerned that without a body they may have trouble convincing a jury. And also, frustration that MB perhaps gave 'changing' accounts of what he did.

I wonder if a confession is enough just to bring the Murder charge, then they'd hope to find evidence to fit this?

Or maybe a confession came very quickly but after sobering up and seeking legal advice he thought he may get away with it so changed his story again!!???

ALL THIS IS MY OWN OPINION, MADE FROM THE LITTLE INFORMATION WE HAVE, ADMIN PLEASE DELETE IF IT CAUSES ANY PROBLEMS OR OFFENCE.:twocents:

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on the 3rd charge:

That between September 30, 2012 and October 3, 2012 at Machynlleth, with intent to pervert the course of justice, did an act, namely the unlawful disposal and concealment of the body of April Sue-Lyn Jones, which had a tendency to pervert the course of public justice contrary to common law.

Does this mean:
The act of disposing and concealing a body.
Not divulging the location of the body.
Leading LE on a wild goose chase to where he didn't put the body.

And

Why does LE need the 3rd charge?

It isn't a case of 'needing' a 3rd charge, the man is charged with the offences they have evidence for, if there was more evidence for different offences, there would be more charges.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Maybe, but it was reported the Owner had come down to rent it out so you'd think he would have left it in a decent state if anyone had illegally entered or a rave had taken place.
I think as someone else mentioned it's possibly a months worth, definately more than a week. But my Bro and sis-in-law have a bottle of wine every day and he has a couple of beers a night....soon adds up!

Maybe they're soft drink cans.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

But it has already been said the relationship ended with a bitter break-up.
There is no way of knowing WHO was to blame, they may BOTH have been Bitter. And unless JW appears as a witness and says something that would show her ex partner to be 'whatever' we probably will never know!
Yes I'm sure SW was/is more than capable of forming a relationship with his Father IF he wanted.

This again, has little to do with 'Finding April', the poor lad is already putting up with abuse from social networks just for being related to MB. Lets move on...

If you read my post you would see I wasn't having a go at SW. It isn't up to the 19 year old son to facilitate a relationship with a 46 year old father.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

It could be that she didn't want to be a nuisance to the police and needed advice from a good friend. I seem to vaguely remember that the police usually don't take a missing person seriously until 24 hours have passed. Of course in the situation of a missing child this is probably different.

What I do find odd is that she straightaway said that April had been snatched, or words to that effect. All she would have known by then was that April got willingly into a 'van', told by the child witness.

It's most likely that CJ was literally/medically in shock. She called the person she felt closest to.

 

[Insp.Dots]

It could be that she didn't want to be a nuisance to the police and needed advice from a good friend. I seem to vaguely remember that the police usually don't take a missing person seriously until 24 hours have passed. Of course in the situation of a missing child this is probably different.

What I do find odd is that she straightaway said that April had been snatched, or words to that effect. All she would have known by then was that April got willingly into a 'van', told by the child witness.

Yes, I agree...but as a Mother, in total panic would you worry about being a nuisance at that point? I wouldn't.
I'm glad you mention the 'snatched' part, I picked up on that as well.
And the 7yr old girl didn't go running home saying anything. It wasn't until CJ went calling that the 'kidnap/snatch/abduction' came into it. Presumably said by an adult, for their own reasons!

I am of the firm belief that there was some kind of fall-out or words said before this point, why else would CJ put 'a family friend's' name forward.

If all was well and the general chat came up as 'hey Mark's got a LHD' or similar you'd think they would then be relieved in some small way.

I guess it's another part of the puzzle that we are not going to know fro some time, if ever!!:banghead:

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Re age of the kids MBs son by ED is said to be 13 so wouldnt be at that school which is for ages 4-11, but his daughter by ED who is said to be 9 could be. Aprils brother is said to be 10.So possibly in same year.
This info from googled news reports.

OK, direct from BDM before I forget here go the initials again-

MB children with ED-
Son - CB reg March 2000
Daug -SB reg July 2002

PJ and CJ son-
HJ - reg Feb 2002

Same year as MB's daughter.

CJ dau - JJ Nov 95