UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2

[pinklilies]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...udia-Lawrence-s-sex-life-let-killer-free.html

There's a very good time line in this article but not sure if it's too big to paste.

 

[hels__bells]

Hi everyone, not posted before but I've followed the case and read the previous thread as well as this one. I might have missed it, but is it definitely the same person walking both ways in the video? It's just that when the video freezes and zooms in on the person when they stop, the legs look odd - kind of hyper-extended like some women's legs look when walking in high heels. I just wondered whether it could be a woman wearing long jeans over heels rather than a man. They also seem a little slimmer to me but I could be way off the mark!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/morning-news-headlines-fifth-beatle-11012199

POLICE ATTACK CODE OF SILENCE OVER MISSING CHEF CLAUDIA LAWRENCE

The investigation into the disappearance of chef Claudia Lawrence has been compromised by people refusing to help police, detectives have said.

Detective Superintendent Dai Malyn of North Yorkshire Police was speaking after a Crown Prosecution Service decision not to bring charges against four men arrested last year on suspicion of Miss Lawrence's murder.

 

[howkflakegirl1]

I also thought there was something odd about when the person stopped, at first I thought they had turned sideways. However, if we are to assume it is the same person as in the first video then it can't be a woman, as police know who that is.

 

[howkflakegirl1]

Couple of articles here, one about the girlfriend of one of the men arrested: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girlfriend-man-arrested-suspicion-murdering-7527730

This one is from late last year but I don't think it was posted, her mum obviously seems to think it's someone in the pub: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/claudia-lawrences-mum-turn-detective-6813185

Apologies for them being from a tabloid, but still interesting.

 

[pinklilies]

I also thought there was something odd about when the person stopped, at first I thought they had turned sideways. However, if we are to assume it is the same person as in the first video then it can't be a woman, as police know who that is.

Which video are you meaning where police know who the person is?
Could you post a link to it please.

 

[howkflakegirl1]

It's the CCTV where some daylight can be seen (early morning perhaps?), it was a man named Richard Cartwright who died three weeks after Claudia went missing and is assumed to have nothing to do with it (although he had a few links to the case). If you go on the old thread, somewhere in all those pages there was quite a long discussion about this and more information about it, that's where I found out about it.

Here's a youtube link: [video=youtube;elCmgdh3o-g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elCmgdh3o-g[/video]

Here's a newspaper article confirming it: http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...near_Clau dia_s_home_on_day_she_disappeared/

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's the CCTV where some daylight can be seen (early morning perhaps?), it was a man named Richard Cartwright who died three weeks after Claudia went missing and is assumed to have nothing to do with it (although he had a few links to the case). If you go on the old thread, somewhere in all those pages there was quite a long discussion about this and more information about it, that's where I found out about it.

Here's a youtube link: [video=youtube;elCmgdh3o-g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elCmgdh3o-g[/video]

Here's a newspaper article confirming it: http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...near_Clau dia_s_home_on_day_she_disappeared/

First time I have seen both videos one after another. Absolutely is this the same person, IMO.

Without "a bag" he is behaving quite inconspicuously. In the second video with a bag carrying on his return, he is behaving like a hoodlum, IMO. Sorry, but: how much cement did the busy railwayman and home owner pour into wholes in his last weeks alive around the time of Claudia's possible death and where, FGS??
To keep a fine remembrance on someone - okay, but not unconditionally. IMO

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Just to clarify (to myself!) this was at 5:07am the night Claudia disappeared. I do think it's the same person. So he was gone almost a minute, down the alley behind behind Claudia's house.

I'm not seeing a bag though?

Could he just have been having a wee?

Or was he picking up something he'd thrown over her garden wall?

Or is he completely unconnected to the case?

Where has he come from? Claudia's front door?

What - and when - was the other CCTV footage? Need a reminder!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

First time I have seen both videos one after another. Absolutely is this the same person, IMO.

Without "a bag" he is behaving quite inconspicuously. In the second video with a bag carrying on his return, he is behaving like a hoodlum, IMO. Sorry, but: how much cement did the busy railwayman and home owner pour into wholes in his last weeks alive around the time of Claudia's possible death and where, FGS??
To keep a fine remembrance on someone - okay, but not unconditionally. IMO

EDIT: holes (not wholes, sorry)

 

[pinklilies]

It's the CCTV where some daylight can be seen (early morning perhaps?), it was a man named Richard Cartwright who died three weeks after Claudia went missing and is assumed to have nothing to do with it (although he had a few links to the case). If you go on the old thread, somewhere in all those pages there was quite a long discussion about this and more information about it, that's where I found out about it.

Here's a youtube link: [video=youtube;elCmgdh3o-g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elCmgdh3o-g[/video]

Here's a newspaper article confirming it: http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...near_Clau dia_s_home_on_day_she_disappeared/

Thank you for this.

The video you've posted is from Thursday morning 19th March at 5.07am. Just before CL is thought to have left for work.

And this one I've posted below is from the night before, Wednesday the 18th March at 7.15pm.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AuiztERz-5o

Well, I always presumed these were the same man and was unidentified.

That's why I was confused when you said the police knew who the morning man was.

But police do not think they're the same man as in this DM link, written under a pic of the Wednesday pm man:

Detectives believe the man pictured on CCTV at the time of Claudia's disappearance (seen above) 'remains the most important person to trace'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...udia-Lawrence-s-sex-life-let-killer-free.html

Well that clears that up for me.

(Although I personally think they look very similar)

just my opinion.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Well I'm very confused. I don't think I was aware there were 2 lots of footage, both times of a man walking round to the back alley and returning a minute later. Having just watched both sets I'm of the opinion it's the same person. Is that not the case?

If RC's family have confirmed one lot is him, why not the other? Also, I know the man stopped dead while someone walked past but this might have been coincidental. Pretty sure I do this a lot when I think I've left/lost my phone or something.

What could he do in one minute? This is why I'm wondering if he used it for a wee. But then where did he come from and where was he going?

 

[leep]

Well I'm very confused. I don't think I was aware there were 2 lots of footage, both times of a man walking round to the back alley and returning a minute later. Having just watched both sets I'm of the opinion it's the same person. Is that not the case?

If RC's family have confirmed one lot is him, why not the other? Also, I know the man stopped dead while someone walked past but this might have been coincidental. Pretty sure I do this a lot when I think I've left/lost my phone or something.

What could he do in one minute? This is why I'm wondering if he used it for a wee. But then where did he come from and where was he going?

Here's the correct clip with both times he's caught going behide the alley and back.
[video=youtube;nQJVSy4wpDU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQJVSy4wpDU[/video]

 

[pinklilies]

I very vaguely remember there being an evening cctv and a morning one.

They are different videos aren't they??

 

[pinklilies]

Deleted

 

[ekardh]

In the second vid, the police suggest that he's carrying a rucksack.

I beg to differ. It looks to me like he simply raises his arms to pull his trousers up or something. So what you're seeing is actually his elbow sticking out. He probably used this as an excuse to stop and allow the passer-by to carry on ahead of him.

Just my two cents.

 

[howkflakegirl1]

I suggest looking at the other big websleuths page on this (the one with 50+ pages on it) as most of this has been covered and it has lots of interesting information. Many people on there (including me) believed that both men in the cctv were the same person as they look very similar. There was also the suggestion that the man in the dark cctv (the second clip) had the bag when going towards the alleyway instead of picking it up when down there, but it could not be seen due to the way he was walking.

It is confusing that the police would not assume both men were the same person, especially as they must have greater technology than us and even we are assuming they are the same person, as they look and walk in a similar manner.

That point on the second video (at night) where the dark man (that's what I call him, for ease of use) walks back to the left and spots the guy walking in front of him and stops in his tracks. There is something odd there but I can't figure out what it is. At first I thought he had turned sideways or was looking behind him (perhaps someone was hiding behind him) but I don't think so now, however it does look odd. Also, whilst both men look similar (and I believe they could be the same person) we can't automatically assume that they are. You would think the police would have noticed they were the same person though. Also, apparently Richard Cartwright (in the first CCTV) had houses he owned and rented out down there and worked that way too so him walking down there at that time with a bag would not be so odd. Interestingly, I did read somewhere recently that those men who were recently investigated had a connection to Cartwright, with some of the houses they lived in also being houses he once owned at one point, but I would have to double check on that (I think it was written somewhere in the big Claudia thread on here). Also, as he died three weeks after Claudia's disappearance it could be thought that his involvement may have been brushed under the carpet, and if he is the guy in the nighttime cctv, that begs more questions.

I also want to point out a few things in the second piece of cctv (at night). Firstly, right at the beginning there are other people walking left which the police did not ask about (they may have known the dark man in the cctv and come from the nags head that evening). Also, when the dark man reappears from the alleyway it looks like there is someone stood in front of the house on the left, but there is no one there when he walks to the right. I wish we could see the whole cctv from that time, including the minute or so when he is missing.

Have a look and see what you think: [video=youtube;uTVFTUGpBrw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTVFTUGpBrw[/video]
The dark man walks left between 1.33 and 1.44 mins, and walks right between 2:09 and 2:40 and there seems to be someone in front on one of the hanging baskets at the house on the left who wasn't there before.

Also whilst the dark man could have stopped to check his keys etc (something spoken about at length on the other massive Claudia websleuths page, people suggested he was checking his keys at one point) he seems to suddenly stop when the other guy walks across. It's that suddenness that looks odd.


Btw, this has been discussed more on the other massive websleuths thread so I once again recommend you read it all.

 

[pinklilies]

I've never looked so many times at two videos

I'll refer to them as 'night' man from the 7.15pm Wednesday video and 'morning' man from the 5am video Thursday video.

It looks to me like the morning man is a little taller and holds himself more upright than the night man and I'm not sure I can see a bag on his shoulder.

The night man looks to me like he walks up the street with a bag on his right shoulder. When he comes back down, the bag looks bigger, like it could be fuller than when he went up with it. Then again, it might just be the angle that he's stood that brings the bag more in to view.

I can see the man across the road, just stood in front of the house, in a light coloured top who wasn't there when the night man walked up that street but was when he came back down.

It could be due to seeing him that the night man stops walking, then realises it's not who he thinks it is or doesn't care anyway and carries on walking.
Or he could just have stopped because he thought he'd forgotten something and the man across the road has nothing to do with him stopping.

Although I think, if I'm remembering correctly, the police were wanting to know who the man in the high vis jacket, who was walking across the bottom of the street at the same time, was. I'm not sure if they're asking who this was anymore.

The night mans legs do look odd. I wonder if he's got boots on underneath the trousers. Maybe even wellingtons that go just below the knee, making his trousers stand out a bit where the Wellington or other type of boot finishes, causing that strange shape to his legs when he walks.

If it is the same man in both videos, could he be going up the street to collect something and then in the morning he goes back to put this something, whatever it was, back? Or vice versa.
Could be just something he has in a hidden place, that he stores there, really no idea what or why that would be!

If it is two different men, then why would they both do the same thing? Walk up that street and then back down a minute or so later? Very strange action.

All this is just my opinions and thoughts in this mystery.

I do wonder if they'll EVER get to the bottom of this, if they'll ever find out what happened to her and where she is.

Eta vice versa.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/index.aspx?articleid=16523

There are more than 6,500 names on the Holmes database which shows the sheer scale of the original investigation and review.

Added to this there are 2,326 Criminal Justice Act (CJA) statements made by 1,215 people, including those made by police officers and police staff during the original enquiry.

Also, 3,488 Officers' Reports that had been logged and 1,771 vehicles also recorded.

The review team has also:

Conducted 25 video recorded witness interviews
Conducted 48 video recorded interviews under caution
Conducted search warrants at seven business premises and 31 private dwellings (this includes multiple searches of individual premises)
Reviewed more than 500 permissive searches around Claudia's home and route to work - mainly gardens but some premises
Forensically examined 64 scenes (39 from original investigation and 25 during the review)
Examined 337 items for fingerprint evidence (217 from original investigation and 120 during the review)
Obtained 273 fingerprints (135 from original investigation and 138 during the review)
Examined 210 items for DNA evidence
Completed 95% of 7,514 actions that have been raised during the review (the remaining 5% have been risk-assessed and deemed low-priority)

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Wow. Those figures tell me NYP have really put their heart and soul into this.

I hope they review the remaining 5% of action at some point. I don't think there's much more they can do