UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

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Going back to the autopsy that CM said she wanted for Victoria.

Firstly, why did she want one? To prove they didn’t kill her?

Secondly, if that’s what she really wanted, then why did she not take her poor body and leave it outside a GP, a hospital, anywhere with a note?

Why were they carrying her body around?

In everything they did and do, Victoria is at the back of their mind. First and foremost are their needs and what is easy for them.

Talking / whispering during the trial does show contempt. It is rude and shows a level of disinterest in what is being said. I guess they are past the point of making good impressions.

Honestly I know...but none of us can see into another person's head, particularly someone 'on alert' because they're 'on the run' in the depths of winter, in a tent (yes all their own doing, moo etc), postpartum, hungry, possibly physically unwell as well as clearly mentally (to have gone to such extremes, moo etc). We can only speak with rationale, as healthy, adjusted people. Perhaps she or they truly did not believe/want to accept/notice that the cold or malnutrition or suffocation were the cause (because of them, moo speculation etc, we don't know how she died). Maybe she was in such a state of shock/fear and mourning that she kept her baby close to her, until she was unable to. Moo etc. I know, I know....
 
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"...police said the ‘affluent, normal, social aspects’ of Marten’s existence came to an abrupt halt.

Largely funded by a trust fund in her name, they moved from property to property...."

Er. Not all the affluent parts of her existence came to an abrupt halt.

I don't feel sure of many things in this case, but IMO and JMO, they only ended up sleeping rough because once they were 'on the run' they stopped being able to access more cash. It is my speculation that during the first bit of their time on the run, they used up as many sofa surfing opportunities as they could, as well as booking occasional nights in hotels, before a new plan of action took them to the South Downs.
 
Also:

"It is unclear how he and Marten met, but it is reported that they moved into a small, terraced house in Ilford, East London. The couple were “mysterious”, a neighbour told The Sunday Times...

...Gordon and Marten were reportedly evicted from their home in Ilford. Where they went next is unclear, though by August 2020 they were living on the Coldharbour Estate in Greenwich. Neighbours told the Evening Standard that shouting was sometimes heard from the flat and that Marten and Gordon would spend long periods of time elsewhere. The tenancy agreement was in Marten’s name, but the couple were not paying rent. They were evicted in August last year, and are reported to have left smoke damage and a partially collapsed ceiling, with the damage amounting to thousands of pounds’ worth of repairs.

Where they then went remains unclear. Gordon’s mother Sylvia, who lives in Florida, told the Daily Mail she believed the pair had secretly married “some time ago”."

Isn't it so bizzare that she had access to huge amounts of money yet lived like this. Do you think he had such an influence on her that she was happy to just give up all the luxuries of being so rich and seemingly immediately started living like a vagrant. And why not pay rent when she had ample means to do so which would of kept authorities off their backs more. Plus all the damage...again I wonder why...there's no need for it as they had access to funds to get repairs and fix things. If I was used to the high life I don't think I could change direction so quickly. I can't decide if he's the driving force in their relationship or her.
 
In a statement read to the jury, the driver of the new taxi, Hasan Guzel, described picking the couple up near an alleyway in Haringey.
First Ms Marten got in, then Mr Gordon appeared with their bags.
Mr Guzel told them the price was £475. Mark Gordon tried to haggle, and then gave him the cash, though it was short by £5.
During the journey, the driver said he heard Ms Marten's phone ping, and then he was asked to change the destination to Newhaven, East Sussex. He dropped them off near Newhaven Town Station just before 05:00 GMT




 
Ah yes - that makes more sense: one of those bags with reinforced handles that's midway between the very flimsy kind and the sturdy woven-PVC kind that CM and MG had. "Carrier bag" might be a more common term for the latter?
I would call it a ‘bag for life’ or just ‘bag’
 
Just copying this over from the DM article linked in JFs post # 212.
Makes him sound like a UK citizen returning to his homeland, rather than being deported from a US prison.


Gordon was raised in Birmingham..........When Gordon was 11, the family moved to America.

Later returning to Britain and settling in London, he met Marten in unknown circumstances in 2016





 
Abandoned items near the Peugeot on the M61 included

a bible,

a bag of more than 30 mobile phones,

five used nappies

and a cat in a cat box


So the CAT IN A CAT BOX made my jaw drop, but also...

IMO as a mom still relatively fresh from having a newborn (my #5 is 6 months old already somehow!), 5 used nappies suggests to me that baby V was at least a few days old on the date of the crash. Babies' bodily functions start off slowly, with the general rule that you should expect about 1-2 diapers per day of life in those early days.*

I think we can also assume that V was being fed something - either breastmilk or formula - at that point, to be able to produce diapers that needed to be changed.

*unless they kept literally every diaper she had dirtied, which somehow...would not surprise me, given what all else we're learning about them.

(I also think baby V looks older than they claim she was, in the cafe video. So weird.)

All MOO, I'm not an expert, just a mom who's been in baby mode since 2016.
 
The unlikely couple cut off contact with friends and family, and led an ‘insular’ life in which police said the ‘affluent, normal, social aspects’ of Marten’s existence came to an abrupt halt.

Largely funded by a trust fund in her name, they moved from property to property.

In September 2022 they were evicted from a flat in London for non-payment of rent and switched between Airbnb properties.

A few days ago I was convinced that the baby was born in the rented cottage but this article you shared states the birth was in the car...

"In the back was a placenta and the aftermath of a birth."

and I'm totally shocked about the cat but certainly explains the cat litter, just another totally bizarre aspect to this story.
 
Isn't it so bizzare that she had access to huge amounts of money yet lived like this. Do you think he had such an influence on her that she was happy to just give up all the luxuries of being so rich and seemingly immediately started living like a vagrant. And why not pay rent when she had ample means to do so which would of kept authorities off their backs more. Plus all the damage...again I wonder why...there's no need for it as they had access to funds to get repairs and fix things. If I was used to the high life I don't think I could change direction so quickly. I can't decide if he's the driving force in their relationship or her.

My opinion, based on what I've read, is that she was likely the driving/dominant force. BUT, not a driving/dominant force based on anything deliberate or cruel on her part. All I'm seeing is just two people not remotely in charge of themselves, desperately trying and failing to take charge of themselves.

It's such a sad case for everyone involved. I can't see the value in punishing anyone here and I hope the trial outcome will reflect that.
 
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I've put together everything I can think of in a timeline, as I couldn't find a fine-grained timeline anywhere else. If there's anything I've missed, please do let me know.

- 1974 - MG born, moves to Florida when small
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury
- 2006-7 (dates unclear) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son.
- June-2013-14 - works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG meet. CM rapidly starts to cut off family and friends.
- June 2017 - pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- late 2017 - goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law.
- unspecified time later, it emerges they were living in a flimsy festival style tent with black bin bags and bottles of urine.
- Interim care order made, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into a mother and baby foster care placement. CM warned about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her. It's unclear if she leaves this foster placement with FF, or when GG is born.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- Some point between Jan and June 2020 - baby HH is born
- June 2020 - MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- May 2021 - CM pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare. Date of birth unclear, but she later leaves hospital without II, despite having been told that if she does that the baby will be recorded as abandoned. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children (adopted, or SGO, presumably) at which point they will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Peugeot 206, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was a Suzuki in M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near Bolton, around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta and personal belongings, and the manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Speculation is that, as both Liverpool and Harwich are ports, they are trying to leave the country but are hamstrung because MG doesn't have a passport and CM lost hers in the car fire.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. They move to the Fryatt hotel that night.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, put baby in Lidl bag, and get a taxi to Allison Road, Hornsey, Haringey.
- 8 Jan 2023 - CM and MG depart Haringey in a taxi at 1.25am, arriving at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco. 6.15am - seen walking towards fields with bag and tent.
- 9 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died
- 12 Jan, early hours - CM purchases petrol and snacks from Texaco. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 16 Jan 2023 - dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane, Brighton
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually and the post mortem could not identify a cause of death

Sources:

Constance Marten had four children taken into care before going on run with baby, court hears

Log into Facebook

2016 graduates of East 15 Acting School | University of Essex

Constance Marten - Freelance | LinkedIn

'A voice told me to shave my head and go to Australia': Epiphany of heir to £115m country estate who gave up fortune to go whale watching







Constance Marten's baby 'wore just a nappy as she took her on 200 mile trip across England on winter night'


I'm updating the previous timeline. Changes are bolded by me. Sources are as before, plus the new ones listed below

- 1974 - MG born in Birmingham, the youngest of 7 children, to mum Sylvia
- ~1985 - MG, 11, and family move to Hollywood, Florida
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset. Her parents are Napier and Virginie Marten (nee Camu, later de Selliers)
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury
- 6-18 months in 2006-7 (dates unclear, reports vary) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son. At the time of CM's disappearance, he is reported to be a film and music producer.
- June-2013-14 - CM works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG meet in unclear circumstances, but MG is reported to live near her and be working as a labourer. CM rapidly starts to cut off family and friends.
- June 2017 - CM pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- late 2017 - CM goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law.
- unspecified time later, it emerges they were living in a flimsy festival style tent with black bin bags and bottles of urine.
- Interim care order made, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into a mother and baby foster care placement. CM warned about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her. It's unclear if she leaves this foster placement with FF, or when GG is born.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- Some point between Jan and June 2020 - baby HH is born
- June 2020 - MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- Unknown date around this time - CM and MG are evicted from a property in Ilford.
- August 2020 - MG and CM are reported to be living on the Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich / Eltham, though it's unknown when they moved in. Neighbours report shouting, and the couple spending long periods of time elsewhere. NB: I believe the same property is variously referred to as being on the "Coldharbour Estate, Greenwich" and "in Eltham", though there is a possiblity there were two homes very close together.
- May 2021 - CM pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare. Date of birth unclear, but she later leaves hospital without II, despite having been told that if she does that the baby will be recorded as abandoned. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children (adopted, or SGO, presumably) at which point they will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- August / September 2022 (sources differ) - MG and CM withdraw £15,000 cash, are evicted, and leave their property in Coldharbour Estate Greenwich / Eltham (they were evicted, but IMO: this coincides with when her bump started to show). They weren't paying rent, and left smoke damage and a collapsed ceiling behind them.
- September - December 2022 - live a nomadic lifestyle, staying in a series of Airbnbs

- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Peugeot 206, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was a Suzuki in M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near J4 Bolton, around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta, 30 'burner' phones, bible, clothes, 5 used nappies, and a cat in a box. The manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Speculation is that, as both Liverpool and Harwich are ports, they are trying to leave the country but are hamstrung because MG doesn't have a passport and CM lost hers in the car fire.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. They move to the Fryatt hotel that night.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, put baby in Lidl bag.
- 8 Jan 2023 - Shortly after midnight they ask taxi driver Abdirisakh Mohamud to take them to Tesco Extra Enfield. CM claims to be a Muslim using a hood and facemask as a hijab. MG claims to be doing the same because of a hair problem. The taxi driver becomes uneasy and drops the couple off prematurely on Green Lanes - presumably around the Green Lanes / Allison Road junction as they then catch another taxi, driven by Hasan Guzel, departing at 1.25am. During the journey, her phone pings and she asks to change the destination from Portsmouth to Newhaven. The baby is heard "meowing". They arrive at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco. 6.15am - seen walking towards fields with bag and tent.
- 9-11 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died, changing her story during questioning.
- 12 Jan, early hours - CM purchases petrol and snacks from Texaco. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 19 Jan - Napier Marten issues appeal for CM to turn herself in
- 21 Jan - Karen Satchell, half sister of MG, goes to press saying he was wrongly convicted of rape

- 16 Jan 2023 - 11.45am Nicholas Frost, a dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- 8 Feb - Virginie de Selliers, CM's mum and a psychotherapist, issues an appeal for her to come forward
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane / Stanmer Park, Brighton (Coldean Lane runs through the park). Sighting in Stanmer Park around midday by witness Mary Thomsen.
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes. The witness, Pauline Mason, states in court that the baby was so pale she believes it was already dead.
-
19 Feb - MG's mother Sylvia, who lives in Florida, goes to the papers saying he's a 'good boy', that he and CM had married in secret some time ago (no evidence of this is ever produced) and suggesting they could have been kidnapped.
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 22 Feb - CM and MG attend Brighton Food Bank. They receive some food, but don't ask for baby items, which are available.
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG go to Mulberry's Convenience Store and buy £20 worth of food in cash but no baby items. Shortly afterwards, they are arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually and the post mortem could not identify a cause of death

Sources: as before, but the additional sources for the update are as follows

Constance & partner seen at food bank without baby days before arrest







Constance Marten: Taxi driver recalls 'uneasy feeling' about couple


‘Beyond painful’: Dad of runaway aristocrat pleads with daughter to turn herself in


 
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