UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

[Doughy]

Those poor police officers.

 

[Alyce]

What a horrible place to leave your child. I had somewhat imagined it to at least be neatly packed, with a swaddled body at the bottom and some items carefully placed over the top.I don't know why I assumed there would be evidence of care, regret and attempt to give their dead child some dignity, but I did.
I do think the items stored together in the bag does suggest that Victoria might have died before that date. Though maybe less so if there is stuff in there that's clearly from after around that time.
Edit:
I've always thought that them buying a pushchair and taking it with them from London is clear evidence they started their camping trip with a live baby. But I don't have a clear timeline in front of me.

Where were they around the 12th or whenever they bought the petrol and such, was that when they were outside or before?

From the latest The Trial Podcast -

we know they went on to the South Downs with Victoria on January 8th, and after that, there were barely any sightings of them, apart from a kind of handful of eyewitnesses who we've heard from.

https://podcasts.musixmatch.com/podcast/the-trial-01gw40zm7r6hc08w7jepkajncm/episode/constance-marten-and-mark-gordon-wheres-the-baby-01hphwqbjsfyg7zkdg3m108vt9

the trial of Constance Marten have been shown CCTV footage which appears to show a woman, alleged to be the aristocrat, filling up a bottle with petrol........ while at the petrol station on 12 January last year,

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon trial: Jury shown CCTV of woman 'filling up bottle with petrol'

Constance Marten, 36, and Mark Gordon, 49, are on trial accused of the manslaughter of their newborn daughter Victoria.

news.sky.com

 

[dotr]

Rbbm. TRASH, imo.

Constance Marten trial shown moment missing baby girl was found dead

The remains of baby Victoria, the daughter of Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon, were found in a disused shed on an allotment near where the couple had been detained.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''The officer said he put on gloves before placing the bag on decking outside the shed to examine the contents.
As they searched, his colleague indicated that he had seen what looked like the head of a doll, jurors heard.
PC Ralph said: 'The head was to the left. It was concave, the top of the head. That was what we touched. I unwrapped it two or three times before I got to a part where I could see red pooling.
'A couple of seconds after, we went to the right-hand side. I put my hand down. My hand slipped on something. I looked and that was the baby's leg. My hand was soaking wet.'

'I thought I had rights. I obviously don't have any rights here. I have the right to see a doctor.'
'That's not going to get my co-operation, talking to me like I'm nothing.'

 

[Lolabear]

If their employer wants them to work then I would guess so, yes!

I had to work on the days I wasn't in court on my jury service

 

[Lolabear]

, talking to me like I'm nothing

More entitled behaviour...he is less than nothing in my eyes

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What a horrible place to leave your child. I had somewhat imagined it to at least be neatly packed, with a swaddled body at the bottom and some items carefully placed over the top.

I don't know why I assumed there would be evidence of care, regret and attempt to give their dead child some dignity, but I did.

I do think the items stored together in the bag does suggest that Victoria might have died before that date. Though maybe less so if there is stuff in there that's clearly from after around that time.

Edit:
I've always thought that them buying a pushchair and taking it with them from London is clear evidence they started their camping trip with a live baby. But I don't have a clear timeline in front of me.

Where were they around the 12th or whenever they bought the petrol and such, was that when they were outside or before?

BBM

As far as I recall, they ditched the buggy in East London prior getting a taxi because they claimed it was preventing them from getting accepted by drivers. IIRC we have seen video footage that proves this from after the kebab shop when they roamed around a housing estate, leaving the buggy (off camera) then returning and leaving again with large bags, following which they took a taxi.

 

[Lolabear]

All jmo of course but I think they chucked the Lidl bag with victoria and all the rubbish on top in that shed in the hopes that whoever found it would have a quick look inside, think it's rubbish and chuck it away. I don't believe they loved her or even really wanted her. I think they simply didn't want social services telling them what to do. I don't care what life either of them had or what excuses either of them give...I hope they get locked away for a very long time

 

[rockthecasbah]

Those poor police officers.

And the person whose shed it was

 

[guiser]

Those poor police officers.

I was at a family funeral on 28th February last year.
My nephew, a Sussex Police Officer, had been up all night on the search and was hugely affected by it.
At that point nobody knew for certain that the baby had died and he felt he should still be out there looking for her.

 

[guiser]

Everytime I read that CM hung on to the body of her dead daughter because she wanted to 'get an autopsy' it reminds me just how out of touch with reality she was/is.
Where did she think she would get one without having to deal with the authorities she'd been at such great pains to avoid?
It's one of the reasons I think her legal team will try to prevent her taking the stand.

 

[rockthecasbah]

Looks like they had plenty of food from these photos. Plus incense sticks, sweets and wine

Constance Marten trial shown moment missing baby girl was found dead

The remains of baby Victoria, the daughter of Constance Marten and her partner Mark Gordon, were found in a disused shed on an allotment near where the couple had been detained.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[rightsaidfred]

PC Ralph said: 'The head was to the left. It was concave, the top of the head.

Sorry, what?!

Assuming the PC knows the difference between concave and convex, why would her head be concave?

Surely this isn't something that happens with decomposing babies?!

 

[rockthecasbah]

No wonder the police were looking for them straight away with that evidence. Who carries £2000 in cash?

"Explaining why they fled after their car caught fire on the M61 on 5 January, leaving her handbag, £2000 and a placenta wrapped in a towel in the burnt out car"

The horrifying moment police found Constance Marten’s baby in a rubbish-filled bag

Aristocrat Constance Marten told police she went on the run to ‘protect’ her newborn daughter with Mark Gordon

www.independent.co.uk

 

[BaronessWombat]

Sorry, what?!

Assuming the PC knows the difference between concave and convex, why would her head be concave?

Surely this isn't something that happens with decomposing babies?!

Newborn babies have soft spots on the top of their heads where the bones haven't joined yet. I'm guessing it's something to do with that?

 

[Smccat]

I am now really and truely struggling for any empathy or understanding and I had very little. Poor darling Victoria.

 

[OrangeCash]

WHY didn't they just give her up. They could have effed off and done whatever they wanted with their own lives. WHY didn't they just give her up
The arrogance and selfishness is overwhelming

 

[Nikynoo]

What IYO might she be doing to make so many barristers sack her?

Out of interest who is her solicitor? Is she going through solicitors like a knife through butter too?

Also what about her co-defendant? Has someone got a canonical list of the legal representatives in this case on the defence side? I'm kinda losing track.

Difficult to tell because of lack of reporting, but I think MG is on his second KC. In respect to CM this was discussed a few pages back.

IMO, CM is delusional and her belief system so entrenched as to be unreasonable to the ordinary person, therefore making it difficult to ensure a fair trial. I wonder whether these changes have been centred around the previous children and CM wants the trial to centre around that and not what happened to Victoria?

MG, IMO, relies upon ‘illness’ and ‘pain’ when facing stress, but does appear (from what I can tell from reporting) to be following KCs/solicitors instructions.

Unless of course, MG has also ‘sacked’ his KC.

 

[OceanElix]

Sorry, what?!

Assuming the PC knows the difference between concave and convex, why would her head be concave?

Surely this isn't something that happens with decomposing babies?!

Babies have the fontanelle 'soft spot' area on their heads and it closes as the skull plates fuse together by around 18 months - A sunken fontanelle indicates dehydration and/or malnutrition.
I worried about the soft spot and breastfeeding enough when mine were young.

I'd be surprised if baby V was being fed often, if at all and if CM was even able to produce breastmilk given the lack of food, poor/inadequate diet is known to affect the milk supply.
MOO

Dehydration

Dehydration is when your body loses more fluid than you take in. Find out what the symptoms of dehydration are, how to prevent it and when to get medical help.

www.nhs.uk

 

[Nikynoo]

All jmo of course but I think they chucked the Lidl bag with victoria and all the rubbish on top in that shed in the hopes that whoever found it would have a quick look inside, think it's rubbish and chuck it away. I don't believe they loved her or even really wanted her. I think they simply didn't want social services telling them what to do. I don't care what life either of them had or what excuses either of them give...I hope they get locked away for a very long time

This is it exactly ‘they simply didn't want social services telling them what to do’.

 

[InstantCoffee]

Interesting that there was no Formula Milk found amongst their own many 'food' items! No anything pertaining to a baby and their needs besides a couple of nappies in fact.

Everything about this just screams of tragic neglect and pure self-centered narcissism. It's hard not to think back to those images of Victoria alive in the push chair and wish things could have been so very different. Today's evidence regarding the bag was truly shocking.