UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

[Kelly C]

Their other children are so beautiful. It’s heartbreaking all round. I really hope they are doing well in foster care / with adopted families

 

[Cardgame]

Isn't the whole point of burner phones that you chuck then away to avoid being traced?

Or have I just seen to many episodes of the Wire?

30 feels like hoarding to me.

Or like one of those scams where you're pretending to be different people. What film is that? Where they have the name of who they are pretending to be stuck on a label to the phone ?

 

[JumpingFrog]

Re 30 phones..

Is it at all possible some of that number are older phones which contained photographs of the older children? Moo.

 

[Kelly C]

I've been looking at the handwritten notes (latest DM article). Looks like top one says (IMO):

Her parents and brother's names

"Other (misguided?) family members"

At bottom:
"Believe the narrative of my parents, that I'm a 'bad girl' with a bad man"

The note under it top right looks like a phone number.

Edited to add: Picture 28 of a bag with an Oyster card in has a letter with her name and address. Looks like a parking fine to me.

A lot of evidence for the police to use

All my opinion

Good spot!

The handwritten note also says ‘social worker’ and then perhaps the name next to it (just over halfway down the first page)

 

[Alyce]

I've been looking at the handwritten notes (latest DM article). Looks like top one says (IMO):

Her parents and brother's names

"Other (misguided?) family members"

At bottom:
"Believe the narrative of my parents, that I'm a 'bad girl' with a bad man"

The note under it top right looks like a phone number.

Edited to add: Picture 28 of a bag with an Oyster card in has a letter with her name and address. Looks like a parking fine to me.

A lot of evidence for the police to use

All my opinion

just adding the link for the article

Runaway aristocrat Constance Marten trial shown heartbreaking images

Pampers nappies, dummies and a baby's sleeping bag were all found near the burned Peugeot 306 on the M61 motorway.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Isn't the whole point of burner phones that you chuck then away to avoid being traced?

Or have I just seen to many episodes of the Wire?

30 feels like hoarding to me.

Or like one of those scams where you're pretending to be different people. What film is that? Where they have the name of who they are pretending to be stuck on a label to the phone ?

I don't know about films, but they do that in Supernatural

 

[Kelly C]

Good spot!

The handwritten note also says ‘social worker’ and then perhaps the name next to it (just over halfway down the first page)

Also in the note underneath, in different writing it says “you not worthy” and “you not grateful”

Not sure if the word on the line after that is “evil”

 

[JumpingFrog]

Also in the note underneath, in different writing it says “you not worthy” and “you not grateful”

Not sure if the word on the line after that is “evil”

Another of the notes says "sexual" (MG?)?

 

[rockthecasbah]

I looked up "recovery Bible" as I thought recovery = rehab but it's just the name of the bible translation.

I was surprised they had one with the alleged woo beliefs

 

[Kelly C]

Another of the notes says "sexual" (MG?)?

I wonder if they are notes she’s taken from child protection meetings with social workers? Or just random musings

 

[Alyce]

Isn't the whole point of burner phones that you chuck then away to avoid being traced?

Or have I just seen to many episodes of the Wire?

30 feels like hoarding to me.

Or like one of those scams where you're pretending to be different people. What film is that? Where they have the name of who they are pretending to be stuck on a label to the phone ?

I think there are signs of a hoarding mentality here….

some of those baby clothes were way too large for a new born…likely kept them from the previous children

and now the phones….

 

[JumpingFrog]

I think there are signs of a hoarding mentality here….

some of those baby clothes were way too large for a new born…likely kept them from the previous children

and now the phones….

Does make you wonder how a young couple could actually damage a ceiling in their previous property (what were the keeping in the building, how were the keeping those things etc)

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I think there are signs of a hoarding mentality here….

some of those baby clothes were way too large for a new born…likely kept them from the previous children

and now the phones….

And they look in really bad condition, damp and mould damaged. I thought it was from the fire at first but I don't think it is, and they were found outside the car.

The snowsuit is brand new and the blanket and mittens look new too, but some of the babygro's are huge and look water damaged, same with the hats.

 

[Skigh]

Does make you wonder how a young couple could actually damage a ceiling in their previous property (what were the keeping in the building, how were the keeping those things etc)

It could have been water damage from taps left on in a bath or sink with the plug in.

 

[Twittens]

Also in the note underneath, in different writing it says “you not worthy” and “you not grateful”

Not sure if the word on the line after that is “evil”

Makes me think of the notes Lucy Letby wrote.

 

[JumpingFrog]

Makes me think of the notes Lucy Letby wrote.

I thought the same, the language is...probably something CM learnt from her experience of the cult, I guess...

 

[OliverK]

Some late-night thoughts...

* The witness who offered the cup of tea if they came back to his place, and who believed CM was inclined to accept... I suspect this may have been CM being as suspicious of him as he was of her, and giving him the impression she was inclined to accept in order to lessen the chance of his calling the police as soon as they parted company.

* If all five charges go to the jury, what will the judge instruct regarding the perversion of justice charge in the event that they acquit on the three harm charges? Will he give them the option of convicting on perversion of justice in relation only to the non-registration offence?

 

[porkypies]

No I dont think Pauline's story adds up. Maybe she saw them, maybe she saw the tent, but the interaction she had with CM & MG sounds like nonsense to me. From just passing someone carrying a baby I doubt you could tell or would notice if it was dead, or even consider that possibility. She may now be thinking this in himdsight. Also her comments about mixed race babies having 'rosy cheeks' make her sound utterly barmy. JMO.

It fascinates me how in normal day to day life most people don't really notice others and wouldn't engage with strangers acting weirdly. But suddenly, when there's a captive audience in court they're stroking random babies' heads, and having profound conversations with total strangers and inviting them home for a cuppa. Some of the witnesses so far have had me raising my eyebrows a lot.

But these witnesses are not the "most people who don't really notice others" thank goodness, they are the people who did notice things, who
were able to remember some details, and who were concerned. They did not have a "captive audience" when they troubled themselves to contact the police, and have agreed to be witnesses, we do not know whether they enjoy being in court or not - it can be a traumatic and worrying experience for some people. I hope there are such people around if ever I am in need.

 

[OliverK]

A quick look at Argos reveals that while you can get the cheapest 'dumb' phone for £10, if you spend £34 you'll get a very basic smartphone. For a couple able and willing to spend hundreds on a single taxi ride, this doesn't seem out of the question. https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9483068?clickSR=slp:term:smartphone:15:382:1

You have to top that phone up with £10 to activate. Can you do that by buying a voucher with cash or does it have to be done by card?

 

[Willowy]

Chaos.

But these witnesses are not the "most people who don't really notice others" thank goodness, they are the people who did notice things, who
were able to remember some details, and who were concerned. They did not have a "captive audience" when they troubled themselves to contact the police, and have agreed to be witnesses, we do not know whether they enjoy being in court or not - it can be a traumatic and worrying experience for some people. I hope there are such people around if ever I am in need.

I did think that after I wrote this - yes thankfully some people are aware, curious and do notice things.
Also wasn't suggesting the witnesses are enjoying court at all, it's a deeply unsettling experience. I meant the pressure on witnesses in court can make people say all sorts.