UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[dotr]

rbbm

Mystery over Constance Marten's missing baby as police test placenta

Detectives hope that Constance Marten and Mark Gordon's baby is still alive and in the care of another person, but say the risks are high after temperatures dipped to 1C overnight

www.mirror.co.uk

Police searching an allotment site today (

A pair of pink child's earmuffs being collected by an officer in Brighton today

''Police are testing placenta found in Constance Marten and her boyfriend Mark Gordon's car to try and determine the gender of their missing two-month-old baby.''

''Detectives hope the baby is still alive and in the care of another person, but say the risks are high after temperatures dipped to 1C overnight.

It is unknown if the infant was full-term or has any health issues.

The Met's DSI Lewis Bashford said: "We can’t say at this time if it’s a boy or a girl and we are still awaiting test results from the placenta found in their car on the M61.

"At the moment, we are still in the position where they have been arrested on suspicion of child neglect and there is a search for the baby.''


"We are looking at open land, outbuildings where they may have placed the baby while they were in the local area before we arrested them.

"There’s nothing to say they were in the caravan, we still think they were living in the outdoor environment and the that is leading us, and the arrest location, to the outdoor search.

"I think, we’ve got to keep the hope that maybe they have allowed somebody else to care for the baby who thinks they are doing some good on behalf of the couple but as we know, as the temperature drops and the longer the baby goes without parents the risks are high."

''Pictures showed officers guarding a shed on an allotment this morning, as they scour a huge area between Brighton and Newhaven - where the couple were spotted a few days ago.''

 

[celinesleuth]

Been following this case since the beginning. Poor little baby :-(

 

[infinit]

The secret nature of the system does no favours. If they had been able to reveal more earlier on the likelihood is they could have been able to find them a lot quicker. It was obvious to those familiar to similar cases what was going on but most people aren't familiar. They just see an alternative set up and leave them be.

It's a tough one. I can see why there is secrecy, ultimately if you were the child in one of these cases would you want people to be able to Google you and find out about your past? Even the parents - if you aren't capable of looking after the child, perhaps through mental health or whatever but aren't being charged with a crime, is it really fair for that to be accessible to anyone with curiosity?

 

[Caroclaud]

Very surprised to hear that and they still have not completed the tess on the placenta to identify whether it is a female or male baby???

 

[infinit]

View attachment 406011
A pair of pink child's earmuffs being collected by an officer in Brighton today

They look pretty "fresh" to me, can't see any obvious dirt on them and they don't look to be damp.. And look very small, the space for the head pretty much is the size of the officers hand. Interesting.

 

[shadwell]

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon may have given their baby to someone for safe keeping, police have revealed as they launch a huge hunt for the missing infant

Constance Marten and partner arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter

Pair were first arrested on suspicion of child neglect as police search for baby who has had no medical attention since birth

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Rosiebones]

There seems to be only two reasons Constance would not say where the child is;
1. The baby was given to someone and she doesn't want to say who because it is a good arrangement from her point of view.
2. The baby has died and she doesn't want to be found guilty.
Any other reasons?

 

[A little bit intuitive]

Good Day Everyone-
There is new reporting today on CNN concerning the couple. I can not link article, if someone can please achieve this I would be grateful.
As a former Midwife's Nurse this is extremely concerning.Thanks guys

 

[Loobyloo]

Officers are also testing a placenta found on the M61 to find out if the missing newborn is a boy or a girl, it has emerged.

Constance Marten's father is 'relieved' his runaway daughter is found

Napier Marten said it is 'very alarming' after his daughter, 35, was arrested with Mark Gordon, 48, in Brighton last night but refused to say where the newborn is.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I wish the MSM journalists would think before they write. Police officers don't test placentas!

 

[Sceptic Tank]

The secret nature of the system does no favours. If they had been able to reveal more earlier on the likelihood is they could have been able to find them a lot quicker. It was obvious to those familiar to similar cases what was going on but most people aren't familiar. They just see an alternative set up and leave them be.

<modsnip> Notwithstanding the police's slowness in releasing info about his past convictions (which I don't think family court rules would preclude them from doing) there was tons in the public domain that made it very very obvious that there was a serious risk to the child.

 

[Loobyloo]

Good Day Everyone-
There is new reporting today on CNN concerning the couple. I can not link article, if someone can please achieve this I would be grateful.
As a former Midwife's Nurse this is extremely concerning.Thanks guys

Police arrest aristocrat and partner, but search for missing baby continues | CNN

Edited to add: I can't see any new info in that article.

 

[wizardizzo76]

There seems to be only two reasons Constance would not say where the child is;
1. The baby was given to someone and she doesn't want to say who because it is a good arrangement from her point of view.
2. The baby has died and she doesn't want to be found guilty.
Any other reasons?

Maybe they don't know? That isn't a good outcome and probably points to number 2.

I don't know the area, but looked on the map and there is an evangelical church not far from the area they are looking in. It isn't beyond the scope of possibility that the church community has taken the baby in, or even sheltered them? I don't know much about them but New Life look a bit sketchy.

 

[Nell91]

They're searching an allotment and woodland via Manchester evening news. Sorry if this has already been posted (haven't caught up yet)
Please be okay baby

 

[Nikynoo]

Good Day Everyone-
There is new reporting today on CNN concerning the couple. I can not link article, if someone can please achieve this I would be grateful.
As a former Midwife's Nurse this is extremely concerning.Thanks guys

this one? <modsnip>

Police arrest aristocrat and partner, but search for missing baby continues | CNN

British police have arrested an aristocrat and her partner after the pair went missing with their newborn baby in early January, but the search for the infant continues.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Nikynoo]

It's a tough one. I can see why there is secrecy, ultimately if you were the child in one of these cases would you want people to be able to Google you and find out about your past? Even the parents - if you aren't capable of looking after the child, perhaps through mental health or whatever but aren't being charged with a crime, is it really fair for that to be accessible to anyone with curiosity?

I agree that such cases should not be accessible to everyone, but they are accessible to no-one other than the interested parties. There is no oversight at all.

 

[JennieM]

The pair were heavily clothed for outdoor activity, Det Supt Lewis Basford from the Met Police said, and were heading back into an open land area when they were arrested.

Urgent search for baby as Constance Marten and Mark Gordon arrested

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are arrested as police urge people to help in the search for their child.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[dotr]

Some might even come to the conclusion that CM's true ''love sprog'' baby is MG, imo. rbbm

Constance Marten yelled at police to ‘get off’ lover as he was restrained

A TEARFUL Constance Marten yelled at police to “get off” her lover Mark Gordon when he was restrained by cops. The aristocrat and her convicted sex-offender boyfriend were discover…

www.thesun.co.uk

''The couple were last night spotted near a convenience store by a member of the public who then rang 999.

One witness told The Sun: “The call came in from a member of the public who spotted them and thought they recognised the media appeals.''

“He was apparently walking in front of her, which he has been in the other photos where they’ve been spotted.

“They just looked odd at that time of night.

“Originally it was one police car who spotted them, then when they realised who it was the rest of them all very quickly turned up.

“He was restrained for a while on the floor and to begin with was very animated. He was screaming and shouting.''

“She was yelling at them to get off him. She was in tears and also got arrested a bit further down the street.”

 

[infinit]

The pair were heavily clothed for outdoor activity, Det Supt Lewis Basford from the Met Police said, and were heading back into an open land area when they were arrested.

Urgent search for baby as Constance Marten and Mark Gordon arrested

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are arrested as police urge people to help in the search for their child.

www.bbc.co.uk

When I look at Google Maps if I wanted a way in/out of Brighton unseen then coming in/out via the back streets, across the golf course and then through the fields and then crossing the A27 seems one of the better choices at a glance. Hope I'm wrong because it really makes the task a lot harder, especially when it seems they don't know what exactly they're looking for.

 

[tonathonfurey]

I've read every post here and every article I can find on this since the beginning. Regarding trends in discussion, I generally agree with the above comments that the level of concern always seemed reasonable to me, and that this outcome, though tragic, is both predictable and ultimately seems the result of MG and CM's actions. However, I have a couple of observations I'm not sure anyone has voiced yet...

Right from the beginning, this appeared in UK press headlines just with the story of 'couple walked away from burning car on major road'; and then that the couple likely had a newborn with them. This is an extremely unusual situation and newsworthy in and of itself imo. I know this definitely caught my attention and was why I began digging into the case on WS.

Further, as anyone who knows anything about fire safety will tell you, it's the smoke inhalation that kills you more than the flames - never mind whatever additional fumes are involved in a car fire. Exposing the tiny lungs of a newborn infant to a nearby car fire and then refusing to have them medically checked is already inherently neglectful imo. *Even if* they were the perfect nuclear family who'd given birth in the most sterile hospital surrounded by loving family and highly trained midwives ... if their car then caught on fire on their journey home and they simply abandoned it and ran off without checking the baby was okay after that incident - and continued to refuse to have them checked even after others voiced concern and specifically asked to check the baby! - it would be highly alarming behaviour and reasonable grounds for urgent investigation.

The other thing I haven't seen discussed much is how backwards people seem to have the class aspect of this case from my experience. The moment WS worked out Constance's background (quite ahead reporting by MSM) people on the thread quickly started speculating that the large police outreach must be because her wealthy/aristocratic connections were twisting arms to get lots of resources and press allocated to their case. People have since repeated this claim on social media and elsewhere on WS. This seems to ignore that (a) the 'walking away from burning car and disappearing' bit is actually indeed quite unusual and worth news/authority attention in and of itself, and that (b) this is usually the opposite of the way that class interacts with social services/police in Britain.

Generally, working class communities are much more likely to have proximity to these services and hence get investigated, e.g. have a police officer and social worker in place at their comprehensive school (much rarer at a private school). To me, the class angle would be the family presenting Constance as an 'eccentric' middle class woman and that this can be resolved 'all in the family'. For example, see this discussion of a Serious Case Review that showed how a middle class family's affluence and confidence with authority figures caused social workers to 'back off' where they otherwise should have investigated: Social class does get in the way of child protection - but it shouldn't/ However, I do agree that, once known, her aristocratic connections were huge tabloid fodder; especially w their situation being something that could fan racist fear of Black male criminals corrupting white women, and the cult angle to boot. But as to it being the reason police and social services have been so invested, I'm not so convinced. Even as someone who is pretty critical of the police in general, I can also see the contradiction in how people have assumed there must not be other factors that have caused a large response, just because the police have not been public about those facts; yet, if they went public about them, those same people would no doubt lambast them for violating the couples' privacy, as we have seen with the backlash to them releasing more info about NB.

Finally, as to the arguments of whether or not it's justified for parents to fear social services 'snatching' babies, it is worth introducing a little nuance and evidence into these discussions. As far as the 'seek stability for child at all costs even if it means removing them swiftly from chaotic family' Vs 'keep the family together at all costs even if it means the child's life is more unstable' dichotomy goes, we are actually more in the second camp as a country. For example, voluntarily giving up your child through private adoption is no longer legal here in the way that it is in, for example, Ontario, Canada.

Generally, even if a parent expresses that they don't even ~want to parent their child, the child will be kept with said parent and the parent encouraged to try and 'make it work' (until, possibly, it doesn't). Generally, adoption is used only as a 'last resort' and is not done until the child is quite old, after several periods of fostering and attempts at reunion with birth family, leading to increased likelihood of trauma throughout those early years. Pru Leith is an outspoken critic in the press who discusses these issues here: Adoption - a better way of doing it? - Prue Leith/. You could argue that we don't put kids up for adoption *enough*, allowing them to stay in bad situations. Paradoxically, even though this pretty much the opposite of baby-snatching, this leads to a situation where most actual adoptions (rather than fostering arrangements) come after years of bitter embattlement with the families and SS, which partly fuels the image of families 'ripping' children away.

The other thing to bear in mind is that cash-strapped councils have had less funding for those 'interim' measures and interventions that try to keep families together. That means that although we generally shy away from it, there *has* been a significant increase in infants being removed into adoption at birth in some parts of the country, partly because this can be 'easier' than some of the other interventions that might be put in place. It varies massively by area, so while it's not a universal truth it is important to acknowledge that there are some cases where babies are taken away for adoption perhaps too hastily - as well as lots of others where there is a strong argument that an earlier adoption would have resulted in a more nurturing and stable early years environment, or even have saved their lives. *advertiser censored*'s complicated. You can read some of this issue in the report write-up from a few years ago: Children unnecessarily removed from parents, report claims. You can read up on the paradox of the situation here: More children than ever are in care. Why is it so hard to adopt?

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE: Good morning (my morning) lovelies. I'm moving the thread back to Missing and removing the located tag, given the baby is still missing. I'm not changing the title of the thread at this point, since I don't know all the thread name stuff (but the Forum Coordinators do, thank them when you see them!)

Sad news this morning. Be kind to each other.