UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[shadwell]

Still hoping to find it alive, but risk is higher. I wonder if the upgraded arrest gives them additional time to question (while obviously being very possible)?

Ah right, yes they can now go up to the full 96 hours (pending a magistrate’s warrant) - this would scupper any bizarre hope the pair might have of running out the custody clock and then retrieving the baby from a hiding place.

 

[OceanElix]

Well that's not done without good reason. Whatever they were running from, I can't understand why they didn't get the child help when it must have been obvious it needed it. Brighton has a first-class children's A&E unit, it would have been safe and well looked after there.

If they had sought help at A&E anywhere, they would not have been allowed to leave with the baby, they knew this, that is why they didn't.
They must not have been willing to make changes and work with social services, instead making the choice to hide and flee. Terrible terrible decision.
I really am hoping baby is ok somewhere safe and warm jmo

 

[Lolabear]

They are obviously pretty confident that the poor baby is no longer here and if that's the case I suspect it happened fairly soon after it was born. It could literally be anywhere as they've travelled all over the place since the car incident. I hate to think how the child perished, or god forbid if it was intentional

 

[lvbut]

I think my opinions on these two would get me kicked off the site.

It may be this baby is with someone, safe and well and that person will eventually come forward. However I am not holding out hope. There does not appear to be any evidence that these two have reached out or received help from any outside parties. Or that they were ever willing to put the babies health, safety and welfare before their own desire to keep it from the hands of authorities who it seems, had very good reason to think they weren't safe parents.

I just can’t get my head around it. I’ve never been interested in babies myself, but when I became an aunt… wow. I just couldn’t imagine putting my nephew in any kind of harm. At all. In the slightest. I can only imagine there are issues we don’t know about (or maybe we do?)… Mental health issues? Post-natal depression? The parents don’t look very good in this situation, I agree.

 

[Nell91]

For all the people (not on here!) that tore down social services and sent messages of support, telling them to keep running.. if social services would have been involved that poor baby would still be alive. I am so very very angry.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm angry. It was so unnecessary for anything to happen to this baby.

I'm heartsick, too.

Unfortunately, some people see other people as objects. 'If I can't have them, no one can' is something we most commonly hear about domestic violence between couples, but it happens in parent/child dynamics, too. It's why Franklin Floyd abducted and killed Michael Hughes. He didn't even want Michael by then, or they would have just vanished and gone on with life, like he did with Suzanne over and over again. He just didn't want Michael to exist without him. It's why a lot of family annihilators kill the kids. It's vile, and I have no modicum of empathy for anyone who murders a child, especially when that motivation is purely selfish and about the killer's ego.

So much of this train wreck seems to be about them thumbing their noses at social services. If this child is dead, either by neglect or deliberately, and if it has come because they just didn't want social services to have them, then that is nothing about the wellbeing of the child as a person and everything about treating the child as an object.

MOO

 

[grey345]

I can’t stop thinking about all the fantastic foster carers I know who could have looked after this baby in a safe, warm and loving environment over the last two months. Instead the poor baby has been living in tents in the freezing cold, no central heating, no bathtime, no sofa cuddles. It breaks my heart. Please please find baby. Sending good thoughts to all those officers out searching.

Edit- JMO

 

[Maltesepuppy]

I'm angry. It was so unnecessary for anything to happen to this baby.

I'm angry too. Not only it's highly likely that this baby has lost their life, their short existence has been chaos, cold, insecurity and stress. All of it inevitable. All of it.

 

[QB2022]

Devastating update. Any parent should be able to put their child's needs first, it seems like this just hasn't happened and a tragic outcome that potentially could have been avoidable.

 

[supernothing]

Can anyone work out what is being said/shouted in the doorbell cam footage before the arrest?

I hope this is resolved tonight and leads to a happy ending for the innocent baby. I fear it won't after finding there is no evidence that the baby was given to someone else.

I wonder if the police have evidence that the baby was alive, since the last sightings. Have any members of the public had eyes on the baby in the last days/weeks?

I can imagine the police are currently trawling a lot of CCTV to try and find evidence that the baby was alive. The huge search made me feel that perhaps they did have solid evidence or at least a decent amount based off of all the facts, that the baby was alive. Appreciate they would still be searching at this scale of there isn't evidence that baby has been alive in the last days or weeks, but it just feels like they obviously know more and feel the baby is alive. Or was alive last night. Were they spooked by the stranger/people paying attention to them and hid the baby shortly before the arrest.

God knows. I'm sorry for the random thoughts. I was awake all night once I saw the news hoping this baby would be safely found before morning. If questioning is ongoing perhaps one of them will 'crack' before long. Finger prints and suggestions that the area could be a crime scene is not encouraging. I can't imagine any mother who has hidden from the universe since her pregnancy/birth to this degree, would be able to knowingly fail to help police find her baby ifnthe baby was left unattended. I also find it very strange that she would leave the baby unattended unless it was a desperate attempt when they felt they had been spotted and police sirens were growing louder. Possibly from different directions.

I guess serious mental health or other issues are possibly present and the ability to think rationally could be potentially... significantly impaired

 

[motherofdaughters]

Why not?

Because you can’t just arrest people for the funsies

 

[infinit]

It's infuriating.

I dislike that there is no middle ground between gross negligence manslaughter and murder. You can be convicted of gross negligence manslaughter when you didn't in your mind really have any expectation that death would occur e.g. reckless driving or medical negligence. This here is entirely expected and entirely within their control for a long period of time, it's not even one of those "I really wish I could take back that stupid 5 minutes of madness" cases.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

I can’t stop thinking about all the fantastic foster carers I know who could have looked after this baby in a safe, warm and loving environment over the last two months. Instead the poor baby has been living in tents in the freezing cold, no central heating, no bathtime, no sofa cuddles. It breaks my heart. Please please find baby. Sending good thoughts to all those officers out searching.

Edit- JMO

As well as the baby my heart goes out to people who are struggling or not able to have children. I can only imagine that seeing things like this just adds to their pain.

 

[Telltale]

Some hope. The police are the press conference stated the arrest (not yet charged) for gross negligence and manslaughter was part of the 'investigation stratergy' - over the time elapsing since the baby was seen and was now potentially left alone overnight - rather than because they have any concrete evidence of the baby's death. They've not found the camp either.

I mean it's not a lot, however it seems as if there isn't evidence of the baby died yet. At least nothing being released. I wonder if they had time to shop and what they bought, I still think that will say a lot.

Though, if this two month old baby was left tucked up in some camp of theirs, time is ticking away terrifyingly quickly. It was a frosty night last night, at least where I am bit further north than Brighton. It's going to be another hard cold night tonight too. I doubt it would survive another night alone, even wrapped up and in a tent or outbuilding.

 

[Nell91]

I feel extrememly sorry for whoever finds the wee one, if the outcome isn't positive, that will stay with them forever. So much damage done, and for what??

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon have been further arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter, police have said.

They were arrested in Brighton on Monday on suspicion of child neglect after being spotted by a member of the public just before 9.30pm.

Couple further arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter over missing baby search

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon have been further arrested on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter, police have said.

news.sky.com

 

[grey345]

Hoping so badly that they find their camp and little one safe before nightfall. It is getting dark soon. Surely they will locate the tent soon.

I wonder if they have helicopters up?

 

[Crumbs]

They haven't stated this but none of the images whilst in brighton/Sussex look like a baby is with them and they dumped the buggy

I wonder if the buggy has been located anywhere.

 

[infinit]

Hoping so badly that they find their camp and little one safe before nightfall. It is getting dark soon. Surely they will locate the tent soon.

I wonder if they have helicopters up?

I hope so, it's going to be such a small heat signature though if it is alive. It's going to need some luck. If it's in a tent I don't even know if it'd generate enough heat to make it stand out against the background.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Because you can’t just arrest people for the funsies

But you can arrest them on suspicion of child neglect (as people assumed this morning’s charge would be and were correct) quite easily when they’ve been sleeping rough with a newborn baby who can’t be found.