Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

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JuicyLucy said:
There's also a legal requirement to report a birth within 36 hours. In practice that will usually be done by the midwifery service, but in this case that won't have happened obviously.

I don't know if there's any penalty, but IMO a failure to report a birth leaves a child vulnerable to abuse, as it's difficult to make arrangements for intervention to protect a child who is undocumented, and so in itself would be a social services red flag, all other considerations aside.

Birth notification service - NHS Digital
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I imagine many wealthy people have an option not to use the NHS and choose private healthcare instead?
 
The legal requirement reads as if its for the medical teams involved in the birth NOT the parents. It talks about 2 systems to generate the NHS number/ register the birth and both of those systems are internal NHS ones. Do you have more information that suggests its the parents obligation to get the NHS number generated?
 
amaisa said:
The legal requirement reads as if its for the medical teams involved in the birth NOT the parents. It talks about 2 systems to generate the NHS number/ register the birth and both of those systems are internal NHS ones. Do you have more information that suggests its the parents obligation to get the NHS number generated?
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You are correct, it's for healthcare professionals.
The parents' obligations under the law are posted upthread, yesterday, I think. The link to the actual law is included in the posts.
 
amaisa said:
The legal requirement reads as if its for the medical teams involved in the birth NOT the parents. It talks about 2 systems to generate the NHS number/ register the birth and both of those systems are internal NHS ones. Do you have more information that suggests its the parents obligation to get the NHS number generated?
Click to expand...
kittythehare said:
You are correct, it's for healthcare professionals.
The parents' obligations under the law are posted upthread, yesterday, I think. The link to the actual law is included in the posts.
Click to expand...
It's a legal obligation upon whoever attended the birth to notify the Child Health Information Services, which is a devolved government office, not part of the NHS. In practice, that will usually be the midwifery service, as I said. In this case, as far as we know, the obligation is on the parents. A failure to do so undermine's the baby's rights, now that it has its own legal personhood.

"If you have an unassisted birth, you must first ‘notify’ the birth to the Child Health Information Service within 36 hours. This is a legal requirement. It means that your baby will be given an NHS number and you will also be offered newborn screening. If you give birth with a midwife, they would do this. You can ask your local maternity unit or GP how to notify the birth if you are planning an unassisted birth."

Unassisted birth - Birthrights

Child Health Information Services

I don't really understand why this is so contentious anyone wants to argue about it. I'm not claiming CM & MG's failure to make that notification is such a heinous criminal act it justifies chasing them cross-country with pitchforks, and (imo) it's unlikely to be the main reason why the police are looking for them.

It's just a point of accuracy in the context of @Cherwell's completely accurate observation that they haven't yet breached their (other) legal obligation to register the birth within 42 days.
 
DetectiveLawless said:
Being almost a month out on last sightings is pretty terrible isnt it. <modsnip> I think its unlikely they've gotten out of the country legally due to passports and find it a little far fetched that they'd pay off someone to smuggle them out.. Though they seem to be showing up at coastal towns with ports so it is obviously on their minds.

It has to be somewhat planned. Im not sure I believe that you could simply ask someone to put you in the back of their container to head to France or similar jump on a boat if they handed them a lump sum of money but perhaps they would.
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well it certainly works the other way round France to UK so very feasible in my opinion. Money talks
 
I have been pondering where they would go if they made it abroad. Many bug Western European cities they were blend in fine. But if found the baby would be sent back to the U.K. Certain other areas of Europe a mixed race couple would stand out more, but they would be less likely to end up with government involvement if caught.

If it was me, I would aim to travel across land to India as I have visited the country a few times and feel I know it enough to get by. Money would also go further.

Would CM be of the same view? Head to somewhere you know. If so where has she travelled? We know she lived in Egypt but it's a tricky route round to get there. Nigeria, somewhere else we officially know she's been to would be horrendous to get to and it sounds like it ended badly there.

Also I was pondering how they got their money? They can't be accessing her account now as it would be traceable. However if she was still receiving some kind of allowance up until recently, maybe they were saving large some of it. How much does an aristocrat get each month from their trust fund? If it's in the thousands they could easily go on a tight budget to save quickly. Maybe that's why they stopped paying rent.

Then where did this money go? Was it wired to someone they trusted abroad? Was it loaded on to prepay cards?

JMO.
 
kittythehare said:
I honestly don't know.
I've never seen the like of it.
Counterintuitive in the extreme.

Their photographs could have been discreetly circulated to all transport services, public and private and all local PD's and hospitals hotels restaurants and wherever else LE have working relationships.
It never had to be like this.
IMO
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It's hard to know how the publicity has affected them. My feeling is that they had a plan all along and the thing that really threw a spanner in it was the car fire. I think they were driving to escape the country at that time (possibly they planned to travel before she gave birth but it happened earlier than expected, or possibly they thought they could hide the baby in her coat while they crossed the border) and the car catching fire spoilt everything. I suspect they planned to leave legally but when they couldn't (it sounded like the ports had their description quite quickly, if I remember rightly) they went to Newhaven to attempt to cross illegally instead. A lot of the heat in the MSM may have come after they'd left. If they left the country it's possible they aren't even aware of the scale of the publicity the case has attracted.
 
kittythehare said:
I honestly don't know.
I've never seen the like of it.
Counterintuitive in the extreme.

Their photographs could have been discreetly circulated to all transport services, public and private and all local PD's and hospitals hotels restaurants and wherever else LE have working relationships.
It never had to be like this.
IMO
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I'm just speculating, but I think there is fear that, if something bad were to happen in this particular case, either the family or the tabloids (not sure which is more scary) would make mincemeat out of authorities for 'not doing their job'. Whereas, in a less high profile case, authorities wouldn't be held publicly responsible. Since they will be criticized regardless, it may be perceived as preferable to be criticized for being too zealous in doing their job, than be criticized for being negligent.

JMO
 
Earthwindfire said:
I have been pondering where they would go if they made it abroad. Many bug Western European cities they were blend in fine. But if found the baby would be sent back to the U.K. Certain other areas of Europe a mixed race couple would stand out more, but they would be less likely to end up with government involvement if caught.

If it was me, I would aim to travel across land to India as I have visited the country a few times and feel I know it enough to get by. Money would also go further.

Would CM be of the same view? Head to somewhere you know. If so where has she travelled? We know she lived in Egypt but it's a tricky route round to get there. Nigeria, somewhere else we officially know she's been to would be horrendous to get to and it sounds like it ended badly there.

Also I was pondering how they got their money? They can't be accessing her account now as it would be traceable. However if she was still receiving some kind of allowance up until recently, maybe they were saving large some of it. How much does an aristocrat get each month from their trust fund? If it's in the thousands they could easily go on a tight budget to save quickly. Maybe that's why they stopped paying rent.

Then where did this money go? Was it wired to someone they trusted abroad? Was it loaded on to prepay cards?

JMO.
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Some great points. I share your thoughts on the money that they have been saving it up to dissapear. Good thought about the prepay cards too.
 
Earthwindfire said:
I have been pondering where they would go if they made it abroad. Many bug Western European cities they were blend in fine. But if found the baby would be sent back to the U.K. Certain other areas of Europe a mixed race couple would stand out more, but they would be less likely to end up with government involvement if caught.

If it was me, I would aim to travel across land to India as I have visited the country a few times and feel I know it enough to get by. Money would also go further.

Would CM be of the same view? Head to somewhere you know. If so where has she travelled? We know she lived in Egypt but it's a tricky route round to get there. Nigeria, somewhere else we officially know she's been to would be horrendous to get to and it sounds like it ended badly there.

Also I was pondering how they got their money? They can't be accessing her account now as it would be traceable. However if she was still receiving some kind of allowance up until recently, maybe they were saving large some of it. How much does an aristocrat get each month from their trust fund? If it's in the thousands they could easily go on a tight budget to save quickly. Maybe that's why they stopped paying rent.

Then where did this money go? Was it wired to someone they trusted abroad? Was it loaded on to prepay cards?

JMO.
Click to expand...
She's fluent in French and probably has a working knowledge of several north african languages, with familial links to Belgium, but I suspect they would probably head to Paris and hide out in either Paris suburbs or barbès-rouchechouart where they could easily find cheap accomodation and pass unnoticed.

They would even be able to swap UK cash for euros quite easily if they knew the right people in Paris rather than any other more remote place, or perhaps they did pre-plan leaving the country and have bank accounts already set up.

He could get work as a labourer easily enough as there is historically a huge black market/illegal immigrant economy in Paris.

With their skillset, and the place they would stand out least, Paris is in my thoughts. Or maybe Marseille or a large french port. But more travelling puts them more at risk of being spotting.

Mixed relationships are more common in France compared to the UK. 1 in 5 marriages are mixed ethnicity, and that's just the marriages. Brexit has left us open to non-co-operation. Just my thoughts.
 
wizardizzo76 said:
She's fluent in French and probably has a working knowledge of several north african languages, with familial links to Belgium, but I suspect they would probably head to Paris and hide out in either Paris suburbs or barbès-rouchechouart where they could easily find cheap accomodation and pass unnoticed.

They would even be able to swap UK cash for euros quite easily if they knew the right people in Paris rather than any other more remote place, or perhaps they did pre-plan leaving the country and have bank accounts already set up.

He could get work as a labourer easily enough as there is historically a huge black market/illegal immigrant economy in Paris.

With their skillset, and the place they would stand out least, Paris is in my thoughts. Or maybe Marseille or a large french port. But more travelling puts them more at risk of being spotting.

Mixed relationships are more common in France compared to the UK. 1 in 5 marriages are mixed ethnicity, and that's just the marriages. Brexit has left us open to non-co-operation. Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
Yes, France was where I initially thought for the reasons you've stated. The only thing with that is if found they'll get sent back. Some other countries would be less likely to comply with the U.K. government, however those countries are a bit trickier to get to on a practical level.
 
Earthwindfire said:
I have been pondering where they would go if they made it abroad. Many bug Western European cities they were blend in fine. But if found the baby would be sent back to the U.K. Certain other areas of Europe a mixed race couple would stand out more, but they would be less likely to end up with government involvement if caught.

If it was me, I would aim to travel across land to India as I have visited the country a few times and feel I know it enough to get by. Money would also go further.

Would CM be of the same view? Head to somewhere you know. If so where has she travelled? We know she lived in Egypt but it's a tricky route round to get there. Nigeria, somewhere else we officially know she's been to would be horrendous to get to and it sounds like it ended badly there.

Also I was pondering how they got their money? They can't be accessing her account now as it would be traceable. However if she was still receiving some kind of allowance up until recently, maybe they were saving large some of it. How much does an aristocrat get each month from their trust fund? If it's in the thousands they could easily go on a tight budget to save quickly. Maybe that's why they stopped paying rent.

Then where did this money go? Was it wired to someone they trusted abroad? Was it loaded on to prepay cards?

JMO.
Click to expand...
Regarding the money, IMO they are using digital money, like Bitcoin or the like.
 
Earthwindfire said:
Yes, France was where I initially thought for the reasons you've stated. The only thing with that is if found they'll get sent back. Some other countries would be less likely to comply with the U.K. government, however those countries are a bit trickier to get to on a practical level.
Click to expand...
Belgium. I could see if not being hard to find a crossing somewhere, plus although the official language is Flemish, they do speak French there. I'm guessing she may have many European contacts and they could move about.
 
Police seem to believe that they are camping in Sussex but admit that they need to hear from someone who has seen the family since the 8th January
They also say that the family must be low on cash. I wonder if the police had an idea of how much money they had to begin with or are just guessing.
 
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