UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #1

[suzyjackson]

Corrie didn't purposefully sit in a doorway TO sleep, the family say he sat down there to eat his food and fell asleep as is so easy when you've had one too many.

That's the first time I've seen it explained that way, if that's true it's another instance of the police not correcting a view that's been generally held that he ate the food then went to a doorway for a sleep. Might not be important overall but details should be correct imo

 

[suzyjackson]

But it still comes down to the same thing....
....if Corrie entered Short Brackland, but didn't come out, then how did his phone get to Barton Mills, if the only vehicle in the area (known) at that time was a bin lorry that collect "11kgs" of waste, from that area ?


Was he in "that" bin ? Or another bin ?
Surely the police check the other collections the bin lorry picked up.


More Biffa bins, looking up to the Cornhill Shopping Centre.

https://goo.gl/maps/Pz51qEsK9ny

Unless the lorry only picked up one bin I don't see how they could know which one the phone was in, or is theres something we aren't being told?

 

[suzyjackson]

If I can play Devil's Advocate on the mugging angle...

How many muggers are active at 3.30 in the morning?

Even drunk, Corrie's not a good target for a mugger -- too tall and strong, it's better to go for a woman or an elderly or disabled person.

Even if a mugger was targeting clubgoers coming out of clubs, it seems too late...it's also not a good time for mugging someone as they just spent their money in the club, and they probably don't have more than taxi money left.

Even in a mugging gone wrong, I think it's rare to bother to hide the body, the instinct would be to run. I think a mugger's priorities would be to choose an easy target and to be a fast runner. If something goes wrong, even if it's two kids working together, the first thing that happens is one shouts "let's scarper", not "uh oh, let's hang around to hide the body".

ITA for the reasons you've explained it doesn't add up although it seems that BSE is a relatively busy place in the wee small hours so maybe a mugging could be possible

 

[suzyjackson]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/37705067?client=ms-android-hms-tef-gb

Couple of things stand out:

Mom believes Corrie is alive

It would "absolutely be in character" for Corrie to get in a strangers car

"Police have so much cctv footage that they've not been able to look at it all yet" - why would police be asking for more private footage if they haven't looked at what they've got already?

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I suppose it would save them some effort if someone has a definite sighting on private CCTV, they could then concentrate their own manhours in the right area

 

[suzyjackson]

I can't find it but Iay have missed it but do we know when exactly to bin lorry was seized and searched?

Just wondering...if some time had elapsed then just because phone wasn't found in lorry doesn't mean it was never there

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http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/corrie_m...t_edmunds_more_than_three_weeks_ago_1_4728748

No specific timing but this suggests it was before 3 October

"Monday October 3: Police say cell data shows Corrie’s mobile phone moves between Bury and Barton Mills on the morning of his disappearance.The timings of the movement of the phone match that of a bin lorry known to have travelled between the towns at the time. The bin lorry is seized. The phone is not found. "

IMO the phone probably was in the lorry and that there's possibily someone connected to the waste collection that does know what happened to it but for some reason hasn't come forward

 

[guruagain]

This is a puzzler for me. Just been reading the thread and catching up. Some interesting points being made. I might have missed it but do we know where Corrie parked his car, has that info been released?

 

[suzyjackson]

This is a puzzler for me. Just been reading the thread and catching up. Some interesting points being made. I might have missed it but do we know where Corrie parked his car, has that info been released?

The only information I've seen has been in the facebook group, no specifc street name just that it was near the centre. There was some speculation above I think about possible places he could have parked.

If he know he wouldn't be coming back until the next day I'd say it would probably be either a cheap car park (so not NCP, don't even know if there is one) or on the street where there are no Saturday restrictions and no likelihood of a parking tickets. IME of town centres that would actually be hard to find but it seems that the local military personel do this regularly so probably use the same place each time

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This is a puzzler for me. Just been reading the thread and catching up. Some interesting points being made. I might have missed it but do we know where Corrie parked his car, has that info been released?

Welcome, guruagain!! I don't think they have definitely said where his car was parked.

See my sig link for other UK cases.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

"Monday October 3: Police say cell data shows Corrie’s mobile phone moves between Bury and Barton Mills on the morning of his disappearance.The timings of the movement of the phone match that of a bin lorry known to have travelled between the towns at the time. The bin lorry is seized. The phone is not found. "

IMO the phone probably was in the lorry and that there's possibily someone connected to the waste collection that does know what happened to it but for some reason hasn't come forward

One possible explanation is that when the binmen got out of the lorry to manoeuvre the bins, one of them found Corrie's phone on the ground and picked it up, whether with intent to keep it or not, but daren't now own up.

That still doesn't explain what happened to Corrie though, unless he ahd climbed into one of the bins.

 

[sandamanda]

Nothing been release as yet since this update from mum but keeping an eye out

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Say Corrie ended up in one of the bins (looks like there are several, probably belonging to different shops) but it wasn't THE bin that we know got picked up Sat 4am. here must have been other bin collections later on Sat, maybe on Sun and again on Mon. Did ALL those bins get weighed / checked? Did they all get taken to the same rubbish tip / recycling centre?

I find it hard to believe anyone (let alone someone in white jeans!) would voluntarily climb into a bin, but if there was foul play someone could have thrown him in one. Actually, it would probably take 2 people.

I'm really scratching my head with this case. Too often we have no idea where/when a missing person was last seen but with Corrie we know it was a town centre with CCTV and witnesses. So strange...

 

[suzyjackson]

One possible explanation is that when the binmen got out of the lorry to manoeuvre the bins, one of them found Corrie's phone on the ground and picked it up, whether with intent to keep it or not, but daren't now own up.

That still doesn't explain what happened to Corrie though, unless he ahd climbed into one of the bins.

Say Corrie ended up in one of the bins (looks like there are several, probably belonging to different shops) but it wasn't THE bin that we know got picked up Sat 4am. here must have been other bin collections later on Sat, maybe on Sun and again on Mon. Did ALL those bins get weighed / checked? Did they all get taken to the same rubbish tip / recycling centre?

I find it hard to believe anyone (let alone someone in white jeans!) would voluntarily climb into a bin, but if there was foul play someone could have thrown him in one. Actually, it would probably take 2 people.

I'm really scratching my head with this case. Too often we have no idea where/when a missing person was last seen but with Corrie we know it was a town centre with CCTV and witnesses. So strange...

The phone being discarded by a binman is a definite possibility but Corrie ending up in a bin doesn't make sense to me. I know that this has happened to people in the past but never to my knowledge without someone noticing at the waste plant that there was a body in the rubbish. The police must have checked into this, remember they have known since the beginning that Corrie went into that area, imho Corrie wasn't ever inside any of the bins.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The phone being discarded by a binman is a definite possibility but Corrie ending up in a bin doesn't make sense to me. I know that this has happened to people in the past but never to my knowledge without someone noticing at the waste plant that there was a body in the rubbish. The police must have checked into this, remember they have known since the beginning that Corrie went into that area, imho Corrie wasn't ever inside any of the bins.

I know you're right, I just can't fathom how he was seen going in but not coming out. Someone mentioned there is only one way in/out by vehicle, but another way by foot, is there CCTV covering all angles?

 

[Amonet]

I have something new to think about. What if we go back to Corrie hitching a ride on the bin lorry, he's still a bit drunk, maybe drifted off again in the area where the bins were (to account for the missing half hour between him entering that area and the bin lorry arriving). So the lorry wakes him and, still a bit drunk, it seems like a good idea to go for a ride on the lorry...cos drunk people do strange things that don't make sense when you're sober.

So again we assume that Corrie is with his phone as it's pinging its way to Barton Mills/the recycling centre. But Corrie and the phone don't make it to the recycling centre...he hops off before he gets there. What does he do now he realises he's gone off in the wrong direction to Honington?

Does he try to make his way back across fields/forest areas. Does he drop the phone but keep walking somewhere? Does he try to walk a short cut back to BSE and something's happened to him on that route? So bodies of water between Barton Mills and BSE on a crow flies route rather than back down the road that the bin lorry took? Anything like that? Could he simply walk to an area within walking distance of the last ping where he loses mast coverage? I think the answer to the last question is 'no' because the pings continued until 8 am but stopped moving after 4.30 am? Can someone refresh me on that?

Could he have tried to make it to a friend's place in the area to crash on the sofa for a few hours but not made it? He might have a friend at the Mildenhall base, so where would this guy live and could something happen to him (body of water, maybe) on the route from near the recycling centre to the friend's house?

Even this isn't a great scenario as tracker dogs ought to be able to find a scent somewhere down that area? But the dogs might not have gone to the right area until after several rain falls, would the scent drop off? Surely it wouldn't be as easy for dogs as going around searching for a piece of his clothing, his phone holder, his body...could dogs have missed something like this?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I had wondered about this too, Amonet. I can't help but think his American friend was based at Mildenhall and Corrie might have got a lift (or nicked a bike) to get part of the way there.

Or... what if someone DID find his phone, took it, realised it wasn't great and/or couldn't get into it and threw it away. That would explain why it travelled and then stopped still for a few hours before going flat. The bin lorry might be a huge red herring, it was just supposition from the police due to the speed and direction of travel. I can't help but think Corrie might be in a ditch, water or woodland somewhere and has just not been found yet.

Still doesn't explain how he got out of the loading bay without been captured on film though. That's the biggie here. How does a grown man leave a CCTV area without being seen?

 

[guruagain]

Why not show some of the earlier CCTV they must have between Flex - past the grapes to Pizza Mamma mia the back past the grapes but turning and going down Brengovel Street (CCTV they have shown) If they had released a few more minutes of this CCTV you would see him go into the Hughes doorway (same side as grapes pub other end of block) where I assume he ate his takeaway and fell asleep for two hours. There must have been more people who saw him around that area?The pub would be closing soon so you would expect some people to walk past.

 

[alreetlike]

I hope the CCTV his mother mentioned is released soon.

Also, and this isn't meant as a criticism but an observation. If some of what we are discussing is true then Corrie potentially did quite a few things which were "in character" for him but would generally be advised against, i.e. sleeping in doorways on the way home, accepting a ride from a stranger, riding on a bin lorry. I guess he is/was pretty free spirited.

 

[JamesKing]

A few points ....


Would he walk home in white jeans ?
Well he slumped in a doorway in them for 2 hours.


Would he sleep in a bin ?
The doorway didn't seem an issue. And in a doorway, he may have faced arrest.


I thought, why not sleep in the car ?
If you have keys on you, it's classed as intent. You could be arrested.


Walk ? Bin ? Car ? ....What about "the old traditional method". Taxi !
Walk to the station (getting a Private Hire would be a nightmare) and get a cab.
Would they take him ? Did he have enough money ? Are there cabs around ?


Is there CCTV in the area.
There isn't any in Short Brackland. You'd have thought there would be as it there are shops backing on to it, but there you go.


Is the area a "dead end".
Absolutely not. On foot you have a couple of exits.


1. Short Brackland to the side of The Cornhill Walk Shopping Centre
This is a road-way that leads to Cannon Street.

2. The pedestrian zone in front of The Cornhill Walk Shopping Centre.
A. Walking straight down (234 feet), it leads to a "cross roads" of the streets.
Brentgovel Street (a continuation) Well Street and High Baxter Street

B. Walking down (100 feet) and turning right you are in The Market Square.


So "access" to Short Brackland is actually "very good" on foot.
Infact, I would say, if you wanted to "take someone" completely unseen, then that place is rather good. It is out of the way. It is out of sight. It has plenty of access and exit points.


With that in mind. What have the police said about "searches" and "CCTV cameras" in and around the Market Square.


From the "loading area" at the top of Short Brackland to the corner besides McDonalds is about 100 feet. And then about another 150 feet until you're in the Market Square.


If he entered the walkway between "Greggs" and "Greenwoods" at 3.24am and never returned via that route (there is CCTV).
And the bin lorry drove up Short Brackland and made it's collection at 4.00am approx, but didn't see anything. Then how long does it take for a "large bin lorry" to drive up a "fairly narrow road", that's about 500 feet ?


....keeping in mind, it has to drive up the road. Then manoeuvre to pick up the bin. Then actually pick up the bin, and empty it, and put it down again.

 

[Amonet]

I initially thought the bin lorry was a red herring, but with the information that's come out since then it could be the key, and we just don't know where the door is that it opens.

So to continue from my last post. Corrie's in the military, he might think of directions differently than most of us do. He might have a compass app in that phone of his, or he might carry one as standard. If we look at the Barton Mills roundabout we'd need to head almost exactly due east to reach Honington, but it would be over fields. It's a silly, crazy idea, but if he's already had a mystery tour on a bin lorry and this is the way his mind works.. we start off heading through trees, then we reach the River Lark which dissects the route, and I don't know if someone could slip into it in the dark but if they could...

ETA the google map link for the roundabout and river due east. If you zoom out you can follow due east and clearly see Honington on that line

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3380618,0.5382981,472m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[mrazda71]

I hope the CCTV his mother mentioned is released soon.

Also, and this isn't meant as a criticism but an observation. If some of what we are discussing is true then Corrie potentially did quite a few things which were "in character" for him but would generally be advised against, i.e. sleeping in doorways on the way home, accepting a ride from a stranger, riding on a bin lorry. I guess he is/was pretty free spirited.

If you search his name on YouTube, there a few of his homemade videos of him singing in the bath, singing with his friends etc definitely a huge personality and no doubt the life and soul of any party!


I really can't believe that a bin man would now not say 'I did pick up the phone, but panicked when it all came on the news' if he's got nothing further to hide ...


To clarify ...
If Corrie DIDN'T leave the delivery area on foot then he HAS to have left it in a vehicle and wouldn't cctv show ANY and ALL vehicles going in and out of there?

Are the police/family saying that IF he'd left the delivery area on foot then he WOULD have been seen doing so on cctv?