UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #22

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But presumably you weren't as pissed as a fart at the time.

A fall of only 3 feet onto a hard surface is sufficient to cause a fatal skull fracture/head injury if the wrong part of the skull is struck.

I know, but that's not what C did. N said he maybe hit his head sliding down the wall so it wasn't that hard. People tend to be more relaxed after alcohol; I've seen someone fall from a first-floor window and escape uninjured.
 
I'm not sure about that, we are told that Corrie couldn't leave on foot without being seen on camera elsewhere, they are on foot so must also be spotted on another camera. If it takes longer than you would expect for them to walk that distance, then yes they are suspicious, but if not, I would guess they are being traced to try to prove someone else is lying about their location.

It's 10 minutes max from Flex to Adnams, allowing for party shoes and alcohol.

And Shire, yes, they could have turned away rrom the HS rather than into it.
 
Long time lurker here, and apologies if this is a stupid idea or repeats anything already said, but I keep finding myself coming back to Running Man and the "Legs" which appear from the shadows as he goes past. I know that the thinking seems to be that "Legs" man (or in my opinion possibly woman) tries to hide as running man goes past. However, when I saw the cctv footage - I thought the opposite - that they actually made a movement forward into the light. I believe this is also the person who exited the horseshoe 4 minutes after Corrie entered. I'm wondering if it is possible that "running man" was an intentional decoy. Ie. Just in the same way that the camera focuses in on Corrie as he is running, is it possible that "running man" knew that the camera would focus in on him if he ran in that direction, thereby allowing someone else (eg. 4 minute man/ legs) to make another move? If you knew that a CCTV camera was focused on an area you had 'business' in, and you knew that a fast moving person running by would automatically train that camera to a specific spot, wouldn't you maybe 'phone a friend' to run by and help you out? I've also heard that another man runs by but in the opposite direction and it would be interesting to know how the camera behaves to that. Might be bonkers, but just something playing on my mind.
 
Long time lurker here, and apologies if this is a stupid idea or repeats anything already said, but I keep finding myself coming back to Running Man and the "Legs" which appear from the shadows as he goes past. I know that the thinking seems to be that "Legs" man (or in my opinion possibly woman) tries to hide as running man goes past. However, when I saw the cctv footage - I thought the opposite - that they actually made a movement forward into the light. I believe this is also the person who exited the horseshoe 4 minutes after Corrie entered. I'm wondering if it is possible that "running man" was an intentional decoy. Ie. Just in the same way that the camera focuses in on Corrie as he is running, is it possible that "running man" knew that the camera would focus in on him if he ran in that direction, thereby allowing someone else (eg. 4 minute man/ legs) to make another move? If you knew that a CCTV camera was focused on an area you had 'business' in, and you knew that a fast moving person running by would automatically train that camera to a specific spot, wouldn't you maybe 'phone a friend' to run by and help you out? I've also heard that another man runs by but in the opposite direction and it would be interesting to know how the camera behaves to that. Might be bonkers, but just something playing on my mind.
not a stupid idea at all , we always welcome new ideas, I understand what you mean, I know we discussed the CCTV camera system many months ago but can't remember all the details , like if it is set at auto rotate would the camera still pick up on movement and follow that , I suppose it all depends on the CCTV system and the settings it is programmed to perform at the time, imo
 
Been lurking in this thread myself: just wondering - as seen on one of pieces of CCTV coverage, just after Corrie passes a group of several people he seems to stoop to retrieve something from the ground: was it ever established what that was about?
Apologies if irrelevant or previously asked.
 
Been lurking in this thread myself: just wondering - as seen on one of pieces of CCTV coverage, just after Corrie passes a group of several people he seems to stoop to retrieve something from the ground: was it ever established what that was about?
Apologies if irrelevant or previously asked.

As Scorpio says above, don't worry about asking questions, Corina. Join in the discussion!

The people were from The Grapes pub on the corner and were blurred out as they'd been identified.

What Corrie dropped has been debated; Nicola said it was a chip, but it's also been suggested as a plastic fork or his phone.
 
I know, but that's not what C did. N said he maybe hit his head sliding down the wall so it wasn't that hard. People tend to be more relaxed after alcohol; I've seen someone fall from a first-floor window and escape uninjured.

There are of course extremes of what people do and don't get away with, but the reality is that head injuries can often be a lot more serious than they look or you expect. If Corrie did hit his head on the wall before sliding down it, it may not have been a hard impact. But it seems nobody, including Nicola, is certain of it.
 
Thanks Scorpio1 😊 I understand that there may be good investigative reasons or personal family ones why the CCTV of Corrie in Hughe's doorway hasn't been released, but I can't help thinking that there is some possibility that releasing it would jog someone's memory or maybe lead someone to a new avenue of thought. I'd personally love to see or at least have described at what point Corrie began to run. It's always struck me as a little odd, especially given how abruptly he stops near the horseshoe. I know, personally, I never run unless I'm freaked out and trying to get down a scary lane fast or trying to catch a bus/ taxi or person! Also, and I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but did none of Corrie's friends see him lying in the doorway on their ways out of the bar/ home/ onto parties or takeaway food outlets? Seems like he was a well known character, distinctively dressed and had already been checked on by a bouncer from The Grapes. I wonder that no one else who knew him saw him lying (possibly unconscious) a or heard about it through word of mouth.
 
So sad if that's the case. I can't stop wondering if human trafficking is a possibility here and I really hope not. But if I start going down the route of Corrie being drugged, watched and possibly waited for in the horseshoe by a vehicle for quick removal, then that's the first motive I come to. I've read a few articles about trafficking arrests in Bury St. Edmunds recently.
 
So sad if that's the case. I can't stop wondering if human trafficking is a possibility here and I really hope not. But if I start going down the route of Corrie being drugged, watched and possibly waited for in the horseshoe by a vehicle for quick removal, then that's the first motive I come to. I've read a few articles about trafficking arrests in Bury St. Edmunds recently.

Trafficking to what end?

Sex? From what we've learned about Corrie, the chance of anyone needing to force him into having sex is about the same as the chance of the sun rising in the west.

Forced labour? Can't see it. He simply doesn't fit the profile of any of the classes of people in actual or near slavery in the UK today, ie (1) he's not been brought in from the developing world (Africa, ME, SE Asia or the Indian sub-continent); (2) he's not been lured into the UK from Eastern Europe on a promise of lucrative work; and (3) he isn't/wasn't homeless, a drug addict or alcoholic, or with mental health issues that would have made him vulnerable - which are the types of men used by Travellers as forced labour on building and similar projects.
 
Trafficking to what end?

Sex? From what we've learned about Corrie, the chance of anyone needing to force him into having sex is about the same as the chance of the sun rising in the west.

Forced labour? Can't see it. He simply doesn't fit the profile of any of the classes of people in actual or near slavery in the UK today, ie (1) he's not been brought in from the developing world (Africa, ME, SE Asia or the Indian sub-continent); (2) he's not been lured into the UK from Eastern Europe on a promise of lucrative work; and (3) he isn't/wasn't homeless, a drug addict or alcoholic, or with mental health issues that would have made him vulnerable - which are the types of men used by Travellers as forced labour on building and similar projects.
I mostly agree with you, but I don't think the likelihood of sex trafficking has anything to do with the person's normal sexual activity. Someone who enjoys sex and/or is willing to accept a wide variety of partners would probably require less "maintenance" by traffickers. Maybe they don't need to be restrained or drugged up or something. But they would still be held against their will and someone else is choosing their sexual partners, potentially exposing them to diseases, etc. I don't think it's likely in Corrie's case, but I don't see enough reason to discount it.
 
When I say "human trafficking" I'm speaking in the broad sense of a group of people planning and executing the act of taking a vulnerable person (drugged, drunk, alone in an alleyway) from one place and forcibly moving them to another, then holding them against their will - for any gain. I suspect sex, no matter how liberal the person, is less likely to happen with the certainty of the sun rising in the West when it is non-consensual. I suppose ultimately what I am saying is that the evidence, or lack thereof, could point to something that was very planned, very cleanly executed and with multiple party involvement. I didn't believe the drugged theory to begin with but since hearing Nicola's fuller description on her walk through of Corrie's alternating behaviour throughout the evening, I now feel that is a strong possibility. Drug the victim, observe them, take them.
 
I mostly agree with you, but I don't think the likelihood of sex trafficking has anything to do with the person's normal sexual activity. Someone who enjoys sex and/or is willing to accept a wide variety of partners would probably require less "maintenance" by traffickers. Maybe they don't need to be restrained or drugged up or something. But they would still be held against their will and someone else is choosing their sexual partners, potentially exposing them to diseases, etc. I don't think it's likely in Corrie's case, but I don't see enough reason to discount it.

Sorry, but I just don't see trafficking as remotely likely, because what would he be trafficked for? Are there any realistic purposes other than the sex trade or forced labour?

Males who are kidnapped for sexual purposes are children and young teenagers (and very occasionally mid teens), by gay paedophiles/rapists for the purposes of child/youth rape. Corrie's too old for that.

From the point of view of forced labour Corrie might be/have been irrresponsible when drunk, but sober and angry he would be pretty dangerous, not least because he would be in much better physical shape than most men of any age and in much better shape than the pathetic and vulnerable men targetted by Travellers for forced labour.

Right at the start of this case, when it was still thought that an apparent attack on an off-duty airman outside RAF Marham was possibly linked to terrorism, we did discuss whether Corrie could have been kidnapped by Islamic terrorists for a propaganda purpose. However as time passed and nothing surfaced it became obvious that terrorism was not involved.
 
When I say "human trafficking" I'm speaking in the broad sense of a group of people planning and executing the act of taking a vulnerable person (drugged, drunk, alone in an alleyway) from one place and forcibly moving them to another, then holding them against their will - for any gain. I suspect sex, no matter how liberal the person, is less likely to happen with the certainty of the sun rising in the West when it is non-consensual. I suppose ultimately what I am saying is that the evidence, or lack thereof, could point to something that was very planned, very cleanly executed and with multiple party involvement. I didn't believe the drugged theory to begin with but since hearing Nicola's fuller description on her walk through of Corrie's alternating behaviour throughout the evening, I now feel that is a strong possibility. Drug the victim, observe them, take them.


I know human trafficking exists, but it primarily happens with vulnerable people and children.

I do not consider the suggestion to be at all relevant in this instance.

Some informative info. in this piece about this atrocious, barbaric behaviour conducted by those involved in human trafficking - out of all the possibilities suggested in this thread I think trafficking is not worthy of consideration IMO :

http://sf-hrc.org/what-human-trafficking
 
That's okay Melmoth, you don't have to be sorry. I suppose my vast imagination combined with the amount of crazy in this world would have me believe there could be any number of reasons for targeting people and lifting them off the streets. Thanks for the education Jessie. Think I'll return to my day job.
 
I mostly agree with you, but I don't think the likelihood of sex trafficking has anything to do with the person's normal sexual activity. Someone who enjoys sex and/or is willing to accept a wide variety of partners would probably require less "maintenance" by traffickers. Maybe they don't need to be restrained or drugged up or something. But they would still be held against their will and someone else is choosing their sexual partners, potentially exposing them to diseases, etc. I don't think it's likely in Corrie's case, but I don't see enough reason to discount it.

I agree. And the motive doesn’t always have to be sexual. This of course sounds too far fetched, but remember the movie Hostel?
 
So sad if that's the case. I can't stop wondering if human trafficking is a possibility here and I really hope not. But if I start going down the route of Corrie being drugged, watched and possibly waited for in the horseshoe by a vehicle for quick removal, then that's the first motive I come to. I've read a few articles about trafficking arrests in Bury St. Edmunds recently.

As well as the other comments on trafficking, I'll add that there are too many variables that night and no guarantee C would have been in a position to be put into a vehicle discretely, let alone have been in the HS. He could have left Flex and got one of their taxis, made the 2 minute walk to the town taxi rank, got his food and headed for a taxi, got food and waited near Flex for his friends...
 
I discounted all the horseshoe camera info very early on as have always thought, and still do, that he got out of there. I know there is more evidence than not that he came to harm but I still have niggling thoughts he wanted to disappear and had help. I also feel frustrated for the family that sightings may have been overlooked due to other lines of enquiry being focus of the investigation. I have always thought the delivery driver's reported sighting credible.
 
So going back to the Video apparently Corrie enters flex with his friends and they get him a drink then after that corrie is going from table to table just talking to random people he doesn't know, this has always been odd to me, even more odd that we are told this is normal behaviour , but far from normal IMO,
 
So going back to the Video apparently Corrie enters flex with his friends and they get him a drink then after that corrie is going from table to table just talking to random people he doesn't know, this has always been odd to me, even more odd that we are told this is normal behaviour , but far from normal IMO,
i got the impression from the walk around video he wasn't in flex for that long, he went in to flex then went out to the smoking area, then he was out the front and bumped into the woman when he tripped on the kerb, then he went back in, then he was out again when he met the woman who called his name, then he went back in,had a dance then got asked to leave.
 
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