UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #7

[TheTruthWillOut]

See, to me there is nothing there that says that the recycling centre it went on to was that at Barton Mills/Mildenhall, especially as that one is very clearly a household recycling facility.

http://www.greensuffolk.org/recycling/HWRC/mildenhall-hwrc/

These were commercial pickups so "The recycling centre" suggests to me that it went on to a commercial facilitity elsewhere.

This surely shouldn't be a difficult point to put to bed once and for all, especially given the amount of confusion it has caused over the past 2 months.

BBM.

Not that bin lorry though. The bin lorry emptied its load at the recycling centre for sorting (paper, cardboard, alu cans, glass etc) and the rest ends up in a compactor that according to Tony goes to landfill elsewhere. It could go to a incinerator instead?

The waste is emptied out of the vehicle and then a supervised sortation process occurs. We are told that it is possible that a phone might pass through this process and be destroyed or disposed of in landfill, but we are told that a body would have been found at this point. It was decided that the amount of effort involved to search the landfill was not worth the potential return of what by then would be a physically contaminated and probably smashed phone. This is why the landfill was never searched. It is too late to search it now as there are tens of tonnes of refuse on top of the area where the phone may (or may not) be.

I know the process myself because in the late nineties I worked at a recycling facility. I too would like it to be clarified once and for all if the sorting process and bin lorry final destination was Mildenhall HWRC. Not sure that can be done now, though.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

"e Bin Lorry. The bin Lorry collected 1 bin. Recycling waste. The lorry had cameras on it, but they are for viewing only, not recording. The bin it collected was weighed when it was lifted into the back, showing only 11kg of material was in it (Corrie is around 85Kg). It then drove to its next pick up in Mildenhall, then on to the recycling centre. It did pass by Fiveways roundabout at Barton Mills, but we know for certain that it did not stop at any point on its journey from BSE to the next pick up or its final destination"

I took this as mildenhall recycling cente

Yes, one could take it to mean that, but it doesn't make sense. To be honest I think this is the family once again being very woolly in what they are saying and causing confusion.

The "landfill site" turns out to not be a landfill site.

I suggest that "The recycling facility" is NOT the one at Barton Mills/Mildenhall because:

1. It is a household recycling site for use by residents and
2. It doesn't open until 9am.

In order for me to accept that the Barton Mills facility WAS the one the bin lorry offloaded its paper and cardboard at, I would need something absolutely explicit and unambiguous on the point from either the police or the family. However I don't think the family are clear enough on this themselves to be able to make such a statement.

 

[Dcflag]

Yes, one could take it to mean that, but it doesn't make sense. To be honest I think this is the family once again being very woolly in what they are saying and causing confusion.

The "landfill site" turns out to not be a landfill site.

I suggest that "The recycling facility" is NOT the one at Barton Mills/Mildenhall because:

1. It is a household recycling site for use by residents and
2. It doesn't open until 9am.

In order for me to accept that the Barton Mills facility WAS the one the bin lorry offloaded its paper and cardboard at, I would need something absolutely explicit and unambiguous on the point from either the police or the family. However I don't think the family are clear enough on this themselves to be able to make such a statement.

You make a very very good point.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

That's an interesting point. Does it allow public people to use it?

Yes! A household recycling centre is specifically for use by local residents. Most councils issue a pass to eligible residents on a yearly or biannual basis, and you have to show the pass to enter the facility. You drive in, put your waste into the correct receptacle (garden waste, wood and timber, small electricals etc) and then drive out.

Here's the shot from the roadside outside the facility:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3...4!1s_aO_4WE7AL6yktlDzjLflg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So opening times for public and commercial can access it/leave their lorries there?

Not sure what you mean here. Residents can access the site during opening hours and leave their waste there for recycling.

As far as I can establish from looking things up online this is not a facility for use by commercial operators and lorries.

Some household recycling sites allow registered small businesses to use the facilities on payment of a fee. It depends on the policy adopted by the local authority. "Small businesses" in this context tends to mean something like a self-employed carpet fitter disposing of old carpet from a house where he has just fitted a new one, or a one- or two-man gardening business disposing of garden waste etc.

 

[eeejay268]

Talking of the 24 hr mcd the original cctv hub was put at that location and presumably that's partly how they maybe reduced the original 39 down to 23 plus all the appeals etc. I cannot believe the police would not have got the cctv from either the petrol station or McD at the same time surely? Especially as they dragged the pod over that way. Maybe look back at the police updates or someone on here will know. The waste went to the recycling with only one additional collection at mildenhall I think I read. This has already been gone thru but the point about the (vehicle?) Cctv at McD could be important, especially as that would be the only place open at 4.30 a.m. for food and refreshments, which we have briefly discussed before. So our questions are? - was cctv seized from any locations at that roundabout? If so, has it been viewed? Anyone know?

Very good point, assuming tho he hadn't changed his clothing, he would surely be so distinctive that I'd have thought that they'd have remembered him TBH
of course if he had got changed and was awol then this could be helpful?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Whatever the police did to track the bin lorry route to BM and matching the phone pings now needs to be done with the other 3 vehicles, if not done already. Also there can't have been many vehicles around at that time in the morning and they would have triggerrd the motion cctv at that BM roundabout wouldn't they?
I wonder why, after tracking the phone all that way, why come back to the centre of BSE without checking out theroutes of the other 3 vehicles (I won't say cars). Has it been a bit of a wild goose chase this bin lorry and has it clouded the issue of the real vehicle containing the phone (and possibly corrie)?

 

[SOMETHINGWILLDO]

Some food for thought...
For anyone who thought it was strange that Corrie didn't go with his friends and then he sat in the car drinking for an hour first - I'm currently doing the same thing, due to other commitments I am joining my friends out in the bar later, they have already pre drank and are at the bar now - I'm in the house drinking my bottle of wine now and will meet them there in about 45mins. It's common.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hetty]

Im trying to get this kid of mine to bed but I didn't want to forget this. Why was he reported missing and not awol?

The only way that the RAF could define him as missing, as opposed to AWOL would be if they had concrete evidence that he had been taken against his will, or concrete evidence that something happened to him after he went somewhere willingly, otherwise, in the absence of such, the definition of missing becomes effectively the same as AWOL - someone who has willingly not returned to base and presented for duty when they should have. This means THEY (the RAF) must have some kind of tangible evidence that that is the case, which then makes it difficult to see how that evidence could link into the whole Corrie entering/leaving the horseshoe area scenario (since how would the RAF gain evidence about something happening in that area? Would it not be the police who would do that? Didn't the police say there was no evidence gained from that area? ) So either there is real, damming evidence of a crime against Corrie that is being withheld from the public for investigative reasons, or it's simply a mistake to say that he was reported as missing by the RAF as opposed to reported as being AWOL, as AWOL/not AWOL is not a hard and fast judgment they could make on the basis of character alone, as far as I can see...in the absence of concrete evidence one could ONLY logically conclude that he was indeed AWOL/missing willingly.

 

[markymint]

I agree I think what we know about the "bin lorry" is unsatisfactorily vague. I asked because I had a new thought that I don't recall being discussed yet?

Even though the "weight" of the bin was 15kg that says nothing about the total weight of the vehicle. Police press releases (Oct 4th one I think: https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/missing-persons/corrie-mckeague ) suggest the weight data was analyzed, and the bin lorry insta-cleared.

But what about this possibility?

Don't think of this as a timeline of events... rather, just some extra potential clues about the area. Initially my thinking was anyone could climb up onto that wall and walkway and perhaps he's in the courtyard behind the Museum. But then I started wondering if he could have made it onto the top of the bin lorry roof, and I think the actual ability to do that, is there.

Granted, the angle of the reversing lorry would have to be weighed up, what cars were parked in the way of what, which bins were being taken (and arguably, I agree, when you do think about those things, the lorry is probably not as close to the wall in this pic) however I think in that video the area is given a bit more credit than it deserves. My pic shows an easily scalable wall. When you look at the bins area in the vid it's clear you can easily get over the metal fence to the back of Gregg's. There are various walkways, even roofs, accessible. Point being, this isn't just "one level" (ie ground floor), it's several. People can be up, on top of and above things in this area, quite easily, by the look of it.

So important point: Was the roof of the bin lorry foresincally checked? All indications point to no, because it was dismissed literally a week after Corrie disappeared based on its weight data OF AN INDIVIDUAL BIN.

If it went to a specialist recycling plant then there's a chance the entire lorry's weight was checked. It doesn't look like that'd happen at Mildenhall WRC.

A guy in a bright pink top riding a bright white recycling lorry? There's a chance he's not going to be seen. May even be in CCTV but appears "invisible" because of it.

I know it's a wild proposition, that someone would ride the roof of a bin lorry. But some pieces semi-fit? Yes I would hate to suggest it but perhaps the phone fell out of his pocket on route? Perhaps he fell off on route? The good thing is, from what I can tell - the bin lorries are NOT tipper trucks, so being "tipped out into landfill" (from the roof) is probably unlikely. But the notion, if he were on there, that it took a corner abruptly and he was thrown off somewhere, is perhaps not so.

A suffolk "waste recycling" lorry. Notice they can take the smaller bins and (presumably) the larger ones.

Another thing to note, in several of the Suffolk Police posts they write that the Horseshoe area "is not 100% covered by CCTV". So the police themselves have not officially stated, from what I've seen, that it's possible to leave the Horseshoe area without detection.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Not that bin lorry though. The bin lorry emptied its load at the recycling centre for sorting (paper, cardboard, alu cans, glass etc) and the rest ends up in a compactor that according to Tony goes to landfill elsewhere.

As I've been trying to get across (and clearly failing) I don't think we do know that the recycling centre in question is the one at Barton Mills/Mildenhall.

We've become as hung up on this place as we did over the "landfill site" which we now know wasn't a landfill site at all. I think we need to think past the "recycling centre = Barton Mills" equation and look further for reasons I've set out.

Unfortunately, I think the family's statements have caused a huge amount of confusion right from the start.

 

[Scorpio1]

In the family update 21St Nov. It is stated that the vehicles are still under investigation, only surmiseing now but if they still just happened to be under investigation now, would that not mean most probably false plates, as cctv would have see them go in then out again so double chance to get the reg number, remember they know about the bin lorry so we're only talking about the 3 so won't take to long to check out if they were all OK, hopefully we will get an update soon on the website,

 

[Dcflag]

The only way that the RAF could define him as missing, as opposed to AWOL would be if they had concrete evidence that he had been taken against his will, or concrete evidence that something happened to him after he went somewhere willingly, otherwise, in the absence of such, the definition of missing becomes effectively the same as AWOL - someone who has willingly not returned to base and presented for duty when they should have. This means THEY (the RAF) must have some kind of tangible evidence that that is the case, which then makes it difficult to see how that evidence could link into the whole Corrie entering/leaving the horseshoe area scenario (since how would the RAF gain evidence about something happening in that area? Would it not be the police who would do that? Didn't the police say there was no evidence gained from that area? ) So either there is real, damming evidence of a crime against Corrie that is being withheld from the public for investigative reasons, or it's simply a mistake to say that he was reported as missing by the RAF as opposed to reported as being AWOL, as AWOL/not AWOL is not a hard and fast judgment they could make on the basis of character alone, as far as I can see...in the absence of concrete evidence one could ONLY logically conclude that he was indeed AWOL/missing willingly.

I agree with your closing statement. Thanks for that. Seems very strange he was never reported as awol. He's a serving member just like every other. It does make you wonder exactly why the raf have not opted for awol, especially in the first week.

 

[Dcflag]

As I've been trying to get across (and clearly failing) I don't think we do know that the recycling centre in question is the one at Barton Mills/Mildenhall.

We've become as hung up on this place as we did over the "landfill site" which we now know wasn't a landfill site at all. I think we need to think past the "recycling centre = Barton Mills" equation and look further for reasons I've set out.

Unfortunately, I think the family's statements have caused a huge amount of confusion right from the start.

Thanks for your bin lorry posts. It goes to show assumption can be a dangerous thing.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/problem-mobile-phones

This has a few useful bits of info about phone signals

This info is very interesting. It explains that a tower dump can be done from a particular mast among other things. That should be considered for the BM mast iMO . Put that together with vehicle data from BSE and maybe BSEbmast dump data too. The hours initially to be looked at would only need to be a very small window 3.30 to maybe 5.00 a.m. Saturday .

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Yes, one could take it to mean that, but it doesn't make sense. To be honest I think this is the family once again being very woolly in what they are saying and causing confusion.

The "landfill site" turns out to not be a landfill site.

I suggest that "The recycling facility" is NOT the one at Barton Mills/Mildenhall because:

1. It is a household recycling site for use by residents and
2. It doesn't open until 9am.

In order for me to accept that the Barton Mills facility WAS the one the bin lorry offloaded its paper and cardboard at, I would need something absolutely explicit and unambiguous on the point from either the police or the family. However I don't think the family are clear enough on this themselves to be able to make such a statement.

You are right that it doesn't make sense. Mildenhall HWRC isn't the place where sorting is done. One facility that does sorting is in Great Blakenham:

[video]https://youtu.be/8DAk8m7sVM4[/video]

Embedding the video isn't working!

The elephant in the room with this is how/why would the Police and family mix up the phone going in the bin lorry if its final destination was miles east of BSE and nowhere near Mildenhall HWRC? Unless there was a special arrangement for cardboard to be dropped off at Mildenhall HWRC?

Or am I just confusing myself again?

 

[hetty]

It would have to be their first conclusion UNLESS they had physical evidence to the contrary, or a statement by someone who directly witnessed a crime against Corrie. Both of which they could of course have. If they do have physical evidence it would have to be from elsewhere than the horseshoe, presumably somewhere that would be within their jurisdiction before he was reported missing?

 

[Dcflag]

It would have to be their first conclusion UNLESS they had physical evidence to the contrary, or a statement by someone who directly witnessed a crime against Corrie. Both of which they could of course have. If they do have physical evidence it would have to be from elsewhere than the horseshoe, presumably somewhere that would be within their jurisdiction before he was reported missing?

So they'd have to have some indication 10 weeks ago that there was third party involvement and a crime committed. Something they didn't appear to know.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

You are right that it doesn't make sense. Mildenhall HWRC isn't the place where sorting is done. One facility that does sorting is in Great Blakenham:

<snip>

The elephant in the room with this is how/why would the Police and family mix up the phone going in the bin lorry if its final destination was miles east of BSE and nowhere near Mildenhall HWRC? Unless there was a special arrangement for cardboard to be dropped off at Mildenhall HWRC?

Or am I just confusing myself again?

The update on the website states:

"It then drove to its next pick up in Mildenhall, then on to the recycling centre."

So could it have done the BSE pickup, then to Mildenhall, then back through BSE and on to the recycling centre in Great Blakenham? (Might explain how the bin lorry driver also saw the teenagers at 4.20am?)

 

[markymint]

Also to note, the Great Blakenham sorting place is also known as the "Viridor" Waste sorting place? And Viridor appear to operate also out of "Lackford Landfill Site" which is between Bury and Barton Mills. Although the map doesn't seem to show any particular facility or much really. As someone mentioned this is probably commercial waste going from the rear of the Horseshoe (not household) so a company like Viridor could be the ones with the lorry. Unless someone can confirm it as a council waste collection, both options are on the table. And if it's Viridor there's a number of places they could be headed after Mildenhall - Lackford or Blakenham... ? Looks like they have distinctivly blue lorries, and the others presumably council ones are white - no idea if they all use the same facilities. But what we do know is that we have potentially 3 sites now that could be what is coined the "final destination", the "landfill", the wherever the bin lorry ended its journey. Clarification would be nice. Was it Mildenhall WRC, Lackford Landfill or Blakenham...? Well I realize the bin lorry is effectively "dismissed" but I don't think it should be. It's still got a lot of questions attached, and so far it's the only vehicle we've had any info about.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

The update on the website states:

"It then drove to its next pick up in Mildenhall, then on to the recycling centre."

So could it have done the BSE pickup, then to Mildenhall, then back through BSE and on to the recycling centre in Great Blakenham? (Might explain how the bin lorry driver also saw the teenagers at 4.20am?)

Not sure about that, CJ. If the bin lorry started and was based out of BSE then doing pickups in BSE, Mildenhall and then off to Great Blakenham (for example) that would make sense but I can't see the 04:20 teenager sighting being possible? The bin lorry did the BSE pick up [redacted] and couldn't possibly do the the round trip to Mildenhall in 20 minutes. Also from Mildenhall I would pick up the A14 via the A11 and Tuddenham road if going direct to Great Blakenham from there.