Identified! UK - David Lytton, South Pennines, 'Neil Dovestone', 65-75, Dec'15

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

mandarama said:
Article in Manchester Evening news 2 days ago - interested to see that police have narrowed id down to a dozen possibilities.

This is my first post so I hope that I have linked to the article correctly below.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...olice-closer-identifying-mystery-man-11448441
Click to expand...

Good find and welcome!!

From that article:

Officers focused their search on Pakistan after discovering that the unknown man had an operation to insert a 10cm metal plate onto his left leg between 2001 and 2015 - giving them a list of 140,000 people. And detectives now say officers have managed to narrow down the possibilities who have been treated at Pakistani hospitals where he could have received his operation from a possible 140,000 to less than a dozen. Det Con Ben Miller, of Oldham CID, said police are still waiting for details from the Pakistani authorities that will help them narrow down the results further.

Looks like they're getting very close. From a police point of view this must be a fascinating case to work on!
 
Fascinating to work on but so sad that this person has never been reported missing.
 
meanmaryjean said:
Fascinating to work on but so sad that this person has never been reported missing.
Click to expand...

I know. I'm kinda hoping he's not British (or at least not living here) and we'll find out he is very missed somewhere else.
 
What I find odd is the "poisoned by strychnine" finding, but the body "discovered....lying face upwards with his head pointing towards the summit, his legs together and arms by his side." The poison in question would, I think, generally produce a more distressing death, body twisted, limbs akimbo.

Did someone stage the scene? Or was the UID used to taking strychnine, and thus knew and prepared for the suicidal dosage.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...olice-closer-identifying-mystery-man-11448441
 
mandarama said:
Article in Manchester Evening news 2 days ago - interested to see that police have narrowed id down to a dozen possibilities.

This is my first post so I hope that I have linked to the article correctly below.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...olice-closer-identifying-mystery-man-11448441
Click to expand...

Welcome to Ws mandarama!

Had not taken note of this before , from your link.
Another line of enquiry is that the mystery man could have been visiting a Memorial Forest - which contains trees dedicated to various loved ones - situated close to Dovestones Reservoir before he died.
Click to expand...
 
wfgodot said:
What I find odd is the "poisoned by strychnine" finding, but the body "discovered....lying face upwards with his head pointing towards the summit, his legs together and arms by his side." The poison in question would, I think, generally produce a more distressing death, body twisted, limbs akimbo.
Click to expand...

This question has crossed my mind several times when thinking about this case.

Did someone stage the scene?
Click to expand...

A fair question, but who would have done that and when? Rigor mortis would have set in within 4-6 hours of death, possibly much earlier in the case of a violent death (which this clearly was) and possibly somewhat later in cold conditions (clearly also applying here); and would have still been in force when he was found the next day as the typical duration of rigor is 18-36 hours. So rearrangement of the limbs would have had to take place before rigor set in but who would have been there to do that? He clearly traveled alone and went on to the mountain on his own. Alternatively he would have had to have incredible self control to consciously overcome the convulsions, but how could he have done that once he was unconscious?

IF he reached the spot where he died at, say, 6pm and took the strychnine within one hour, then it is very likely he was dead by 9pm. So we can estimate rigor setting in typically between 1am and 4am, but it could be as early as 10pm or as late as 6am give or take. Either way, he would almost certainly have been in rigor when found so it seems impossible that the finder of the body could have rearranged it.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
Either way, he would almost certainly have been in rigor when found so it seems impossible that the finder of the body could have rearranged it.
Click to expand...
snip

Not suggesting, necessarily, that someone came along later, unannounced, and arranged the body.

(Though indeed this was conjecture in Australia's infamous 1963 Bogle-Chandler deaths.)
 
My feeling is that he had not been in the country long (not long enough to be remembered in a community at least) and was perhaps returning to the UK after some time in Pakistan.

If he had recently travelled he must have had some luggage but it's not that hard to throw a suitcase or bag away unnoticed if you want to.

This could account for not having been reported missing in either country - Family in Pakistan knew he had gone back to England - English family (if there were any) May not have known he was coming?
 
I have been listening to the BBC radio 4 podcasts called The Man on the Moor, episode four today was about the UIDs leg and narrowing down where the titanium plate originated from etc. fascinating stuff. Next episode is ths Friday. You can catch up and listen to all four episodes so far by going to BBC Iplayer World at One. I will try to link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03yb1dt
That might work!
 
hippy hippy said:
I have been listening to the BBC radio 4 podcasts called The Man on the Moor, episode four today was about the UIDs leg and narrowing down where the titanium plate originated from etc. fascinating stuff. Next episode is ths Friday. You can catch up and listen to all four episodes so far by going to BBC Iplayer World at One. I will try to link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03yb1dt
That might work!
Click to expand...

Hi HH, good to see you!! There is a new local (well, Scotland!) case for you - Kirsty Aitchison - thread started today.
 
wfgodot said:
What I find odd is the "poisoned by strychnine" finding, but the body "discovered....lying face upwards with his head pointing towards the summit, his legs together and arms by his side." The poison in question would, I think, generally produce a more distressing death, body twisted, limbs akimbo.
Click to expand...

Yes - I pointed this out sometime ago. Interestingly, Stuart Crowther (the man who found the body) is quoted by the BBC as saying "His head was uphill and his legs were straight downhill - perfectly straight. His arms were across his chest.”. Which is even harder to explain.

I think that there are only two possible explanations: either he didn't die from strychnine poisoning (the much the more likely one) or the death was by poisoning and the body was posed after death.

Why would someone want to rearrange the body? Well, the only explanation I can think of is robbery; with the exception of £130 cash, belongings that would have value and/or identify the body were missing. He didn't have a watch, mobile phone, door keys, wallet, credit or debit cards. In order to use a stolen credit or debit card for a maximum amount of time, a thief would want to prevent that card from being cancelled (a wise precaution when the owner has died) - that's why he'd want to remove all ID or anything that may help with identifying the body. Leaving a bit of cash on the body conceals the fact that the robbery has occurred in the first place - that ruse seems to have worked as no-one has suggested robbery until now. As I said I think robbery is unlikely - extremely unlikely - as you would have the strange conjunction of an unusual death quickly followed by a ghoulish pickpocket stumbling across the body after dark on a remote moor. Extremely unlikely but not impossible.
 
Hi Trendsetter.
I have been thinking a lot about the position of the UID when found. His head was uphill and his feet were downhill. I know that in Islam,the dead must be laid to rest (buried) with the head facing North-East, toward Mecca. Now if this gentleman is originally from Pakistan, which is very predominantly a Muslim country, then I would assume he is Muslim, and so if he did in fact take his own life, he would have purposely lain down in a North East Facing pasition. Also it is Haram (not permitted) to commit suicide unless as part of Jihad, so hence he may have wanted to carry out this act completely anonymously so his family would not be shamed therefore lack of ID etc. ALL JMO but it would be handy to know where on the hill he was found and if that place does in fact fact North East.
Still can't figure out why that particular part of the UK.
 
Also, with regard to the arms crossed on the chest.: in Islam, the deceased must have his left hand on his heart, as in the position of prayer, with the right hand resting on top of the left. Were the police specific at all, I wonder, in describing the exact position of the hands. I think this would be very telling, as to his religion, and also as t whether he knew he was about to die.
 
Cant believe this mans still not been identified :(
 
Yes indeed dotr. I hope it will help the search for this man's name.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 73 more.
Total: 2,199 (members: 74, guests: 2,125)

Online statistics

Members online
74
Guests online
2,125
Total visitors
2,199
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
601,735
Messages
18,129,060
Members
231,138
Latest member
mjF7nx
Back
Top