Identified! UK - David Lytton, South Pennines, 'Neil Dovestone', 65-75, Dec'15

[tallmansix]

...Saddleworth, it's not exactly known as a national beauty spot either, quite the opposite with all the shenanigans that have gone on up there.....

Might not sound like a beauty spot but it really is a beautiful place. I walk my dog around that area a few times a year and drive along the road past Dovestone frequently and I am always in awe of the views and isolation of the area - especially as it is only a half hour drive from the city of Manchester.

If I was a loner without kids I might well choose it as a final resting place.

I can pay a visit this weekend if anybody needs and further info from the area.

However I do think there must be a childhood connection with the area to be so specific about where to go in such an vast area.


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[Pisces Cloud]

Might not sound like a beauty spot but it really is a beautiful place. I walk my dog around that area a few times a year and drive along the road past Dovestone frequently and I am always in awe of the views and isolation of the area - especially as it is only a half hour drive from the city of Manchester.

If I was a loner without kids I might well choose it as a final resting place.

I can pay a visit this weekend if anybody needs and further info from the area.

However I do think there must be a childhood connection with the area to be so specific about where to go in such an vast area.


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Agreed. Some great views up there. Especially when the heather's out.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=d...KsAKHUCODCYQ_AUICSgC&biw=1366&bih=605#imgrc=_

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Might not sound like a beauty spot but it really is a beautiful place. I walk my dog around that area a few times a year and drive along the road past Dovestone frequently and I am always in awe of the views and isolation of the area - especially as it is only a half hour drive from the city of Manchester.

If I was a loner without kids I might well choose it as a final resting place.

I can pay a visit this weekend if anybody needs and further info from the area.

However I do think there must be a childhood connection with the area to be so specific about where to go in such an vast area.


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That's what I mean, it's very specific and not easy to get to on public transport, I really hope we find out what led him up there, the police statement about his friends and family gives me hope it will get worked out.

And yes I've been across Saddleworth a handful of times (I'm in Yorkshire but bestie's in Lancashire, for my sins haha) the views are stunning, but there are a ton of hills between there and London had he just wanted to die "on a mountain".

 

[Spyder84]

Great news Neil or David finally has a name and a family that he belongs too, but very sad for those who are related to him. I’ve read through previous posts in the last day or two and I find the aristocrat link very intriguing – Would very much explain why he wanted to remain unidentified, if he is a relation then was he worried this would cause scandal/embarrassment to his family. Its also peculiar that none of us can find his birth entry – I’ve run a blanket worldwide search on genealogy sites but nothing, and nothing in Scotland either, I would think at this stage that Mr Lytton was born abroad (maybe Pakistan/India) or he was adopted, but that’s a theory easily discounted if he is related to “The” Lytton family, as the resemblance is uncanny however it could have been a privately arranged family adoption - But as wonderful as it is to now have a name and a family for this guy, so many questions remain, why saddleworth moor, why that date, why put in so much planning, and why commit suicide. But the question surrounding strychnine has potentially been answered for me. It was a sure fire death, giving him no way of backing out or seeking help, and he may have been trying to reduce the trauma on the person who found him, after all it seemed very peaceful and dignified when he was found, other methods of suicide are much less dignified and very traumatic for those witnessing the aftermath so it seems Mr Lytton gave some prior thought to that.
I think the inquest will have some, if not all of the answers, but I am so intrigued to know a bit more now.

 

[DanceCard]

I agree the views are fantastic if the weather is good. (Rare, of course). But I just find it a bleak and desolate place.

I think David Lytton chose the moors specifically but to find out why we'll need more information about his background.

Can someone remind me how he got from Manchester Piccadilly to Greenfield? It doesn't say on the Wiki page.
I think the bus has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread but I'm not sure if that's confirmed. There's a train station at Greenfield but AFAIK trains to Greenfield only go from Manchester Victoria so perhaps he walked or got the little bus that goes there from Picc.
I don't believe there has been any mention of him having a map with him?

According to my poor maths, he would have been aged approx between 15-17 at the time of the Moors Murders.
However, the police have found no local connection so I'm assuming he didn't grow up in the area. But I do think it's likely there's some sort of link with his childhood.


As a side note to the discussion, and speaking as a native Lancastrian, I found it interesting to learn during this case that a lot of the Saddleworth villages were actually in Yorkshire until the huge boundary changes that took place in 1974. That must have caused quite a lot of uproar at the time, the last thing you want if you're a Yorkie is to find you've suddenly been displaced to Greater Manchester without even stepping out of your front door!

Finally, I feel a tad uncomfortable about this case. DL didn't seem to want to be identified but he has been. There's another case I follow closely here at WS 'Christmas Tree Lady' who committed suicide and didn't want to be identified either. She is still a UID after 20 years.
For me, it's a bit of a dilemma taking such an interest in these cases when the deceased have taken steps beforehand to make their identity not easily discovered.
Unfortunately it does add to the intrigue, and in DL's case the police are saying he seemed to 'compartmentalise' his life and that fits well with how/where he chose to die.
I wonder where he disposed of his personal effects?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

<snmipped>
As a side note to the discussion, and speaking as a native Lancastrian, I found it interesting to learn during this case that a lot of the Saddleworth villages were actually in Yorkshire until the huge boundary changes that took place in 1974. That must have caused quite a lot of uproar at the time, the last thing you want if you're a Yorkie is to find you've suddenly been displaced to Greater Manchester without even stepping out of your front door!

Jesus, can you imagine the horror of THAT! Hahahahaah :lol:

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I've not reached my "uncomfortable" with the case yet but I know exactly what you mean as I felt the same with Lori Kennedy Ruff. Early days though, and I think more will come at at the inquest. The problem is, I guess, in leaving this earth in an unusual way you are bound to draw more attention to yourself. All very intriguing...

 

[tallmansix]

Can someone remind me how he got from Manchester Piccadilly to Greenfield? It doesn't say on the Wiki page.
I think the bus has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread but I'm not sure if that's confirmed. There's a train station at Greenfield but AFAIK trains to Greenfield only go from Manchester Victoria so perhaps he walked or got the little bus that goes there from Picc.
I don't believe there has been any mention of him having a map with him?

I don't think I've seen anything specific about how he traveled but there is a direct train from Piccadilly to Greenfield on the Hull or Scarborough service.


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[Pisces Cloud]

I don't think I've seen anything specific about how he traveled but there is a direct train from Piccadilly to Greenfield on the Hull or Scarborough service.


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I think they are quite regular too. My niece lives in Mossley, Tameside, which is the stop before Greenfield coming from Manchester. She works in Manchester and catches that train into work and back.

 

[DanceCard]

I don't think I've seen anything specific about how he traveled but there is a direct train from Piccadilly to Greenfield on the Hull or Scarborough service.


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Right, that's interesting. I didn't know about that. (Am a displaced Lancastrian now, shoved reluctantly a bit further south).

That changes my view of the case a little bit. I'd thought he'd come up from Euston, arrived into Piccadilly and then got a bus to Greenfield or gone to Victoria for the train. That seemed like a journey with a purpose.
Knowing he could have transferred to a Greenfield train at Picc, well maybe it was purely random that he ended up at Greenfield?
Maybe he saw the 'mountain' from the train window and just decided to get off there.

I'd like to know what time he arrived into Picc. Maybe that Hull/Scarborough train was simply the next train out and that's why he picked it.

 

[Dionysia]

I can't find a link between him and the aristocratic Lytton family either.

Remember, serfs who lived and worked the lands of aristocratic families often took the family name of the lord as their surname.
That's the story of my mother's father's side of the family. They took the name back in the 14th century.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I can't find a link between him and the aristocratic Lytton family either.

Remember, serfs who lived and worked the lands of aristocratic families often took the family name of the lord as their surname.
That's the story of my mother's father's side of the family. They took the name back in the 14th century.

I wondered if there'd been a name change, with us not being able to find a birth record or any definite trace of David.

 

[wfgodot]

For the uninitiated:

Changes of name / National Archives

 

[Spyder84]

It could be he was born abroad and the birth indexes not held online here, or, and I think this could be more like it - He may have been adopted

 

[CoverMeCagney]

For the uninitiated:

Changes of name / National Archives

Anyone fancy a trip to Kew?!

 

[easynic150]

Right, that's interesting. I didn't know about that. (Am a displaced Lancastrian now, shoved reluctantly a bit further south).

That changes my view of the case a little bit. I'd thought he'd come up from Euston, arrived into Piccadilly and then got a bus to Greenfield or gone to Victoria for the train. That seemed like a journey with a purpose.
Knowing he could have transferred to a Greenfield train at Picc, well maybe it was purely random that he ended up at Greenfield?
Maybe he saw the 'mountain' from the train window and just decided to get off there.

I'd like to know what time he arrived into Picc. Maybe that Hull/Scarborough train was simply the next train out and that's why he picked it.

He arrived shortly after midday


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[Pisces Cloud]

Right, that's interesting. I didn't know about that. (Am a displaced Lancastrian now, shoved reluctantly a bit further south).

That changes my view of the case a little bit. I'd thought he'd come up from Euston, arrived into Piccadilly and then got a bus to Greenfield or gone to Victoria for the train. That seemed like a journey with a purpose.
Knowing he could have transferred to a Greenfield train at Picc, well maybe it was purely random that he ended up at Greenfield?
Maybe he saw the 'mountain' from the train window and just decided to get off there.

I'd like to know what time he arrived into Picc. Maybe that Hull/Scarborough train was simply the next train out and that's why he picked it.

I think that sounds quite plausible.

 

[Ellmau]

Interesting that his passport was ten years old, presumably applied for when he emigrated, and would have needed renewing. I think you can do that from Pakistan, but maybe he didn't have all the paperwork he needed (like, say, his birth certificate ) and that could have been a reason to return to the UK?

If he had found his time in Pakistan could not be extended visa wise, he might have found that rising property prices here meant he couldn't resume his old life and that could have led him to make the decision he did? Just a thought.

Not that his ld life sounds much fun. The Sun has tracked him down: no link to the aristocracy, I'm afraid - he was a croupier from Streatham who never had visitors.

neighbour Margaret Dias, 81, said she had known Mr Lytton for 34 years as his next-door neighbour and NEVER saw him receiving any company.

The former department store worker said: &#8220;David was a very quiet, private man. I never saw him with a friend or any visitors &#8212; and I definitely didn&#8217;t see any family.

&#8220;We moved here in 1972 and he was in the house then. He would just come and go, say &#8216;hello&#8217;, &#8216;morning&#8217;, &#8216;goodbye&#8217;, and that was it. I&#8217;m so shocked he&#8217;s died. I knew he had gone away when he sold his house but I never knew where.&#8221;
Mr Lytton had travelled from the beauty spot to kill himself after flying to Britain from Pakistan

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/27263...le-visitor-in-34-years-say-london-neighbours/

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Did a bit of digging and I think Mr Lytton might have lived at Lilian Road in Streatham (the only road where I found his name along with the neighbour Margaret D) and the only house sold in 2006 that had no previous records is no46. It was up for rent in 2011, renovated no doubt.
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/46-lilian-road/london/sw16-5hn/15855656

 

[CoverMeCagney]

So we know he was a Londoner, lived a quiet life in Streatham for 35+ years, worked as a croupier, sold the house for £220k in 2006 and emigrated to Pakistan. He probably had no mortgage so would have had all that money to keep him going.

I wonder why Pakistan? Most people his age and at that time would have gone to somewhere like Spain, so Pakistan seems an unusual choice. Was there a link?