GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Tortoise]

In a statement read out to the court, Gray’s work colleague Tracey Bernstein said she suspected something “was just not right” throughout the short time the defendant was in the office on October 28.
Gray, a graphic designer, had only been with the company for less than two weeks, the jury were told.
Ms Bernstein said: “She gathered her things, just stood up and walked out.
“The way she got up was just not right. I had the feeling she was walking out of the job and not coming back.
“I wondered if she just had enough and it wasn’t for her.”
Ms Bernstein said Gray had come into work and told her her partner was down in Cornwall, looking after his ill father, and that Ellie was being looked after by her godfather.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-butler-trial-recap-dad-7793323

 

[Tortoise]

Yep, Cornwall is an alibi. But how the hell were they going to work that one through. Was he planning to leave the house and distance himself from the whole occurrence? Who would they say had been looking after the girls? It is crazy, some godfather that also disappears? Perhaps BB's friend Ian was going to be roped in for the accidental fall?

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if Ellie had actually eaten the jam sandwich, or if it was part of the staging, perhaps put in her room but he would say she hadn't eaten it when she fell.

 

[jog]

I have to agree with this line of thinking, I've always thought it odd that she left late that morning. BB said she had been dithering about whether to go in that morning, but seeing as everyone else went in she decided she wouldn't get away with staying at home. Now I'm not liking that explanation, it was just a feeling I got as he was telling it, that it was a lie. Something about a shift in his voice pattern. Plus, it was a new job and she would be trying to impress, especially having already taken a day off to look after Ellie recently I seem to recall. I think she would have made that decision to go in a lot earlier, she left well after 9am. It's also always strange when there is a long detailed explanation for something so seemingly ordinary and inconsequential, as the time JG left for work. I don't think 3 years later he would focus on why she left late for work, unless it was something that had been thought over. It just wasn't relevant to Ellie's later 'fall' on his version.

I had wondered whether he and JG had had a fight that morning but your theory fits better for me. I'll tell you why, because she texted him on her journey in to work several times saying honey or babe and lots of kisses. And it made my BS radar start bleeping. Over the top, especially for these two at each others throats constantly. That could have been a cover up that they had agreed on if there was going to be a hospital visit necessary for Ellie, and a police investigation, to show there were no problems that morning when the injury occurred. He says his phone was off and he didn't see her texts, and he went to sleep. That seems like a very implausible scenario for a morning with two littl'uns in the house to me. His Nytol excuse also seemed far fetched to make him drowsy 12 hours later. When he texted back all he said was ok. That could have been a coded message to signify nothing's happening yet. And then phones her and texts answer. Something has changed. Ellie's fallen unconscious or having a heart attack maybe. Perhaps he had left a pillow under her head and that explains the blood, so he moved the pillow away to stage a fall. Tries to sponge off the blood and dilutes it. A green scrubby sponge was in the rubbish bags he got rid of. Would it have been too dilute to get a blood test from? It would have looked suspicious if her pillow was missing when the police investigated the house, so he didn't get rid of it.

I'm all for this scenario of an earlier injury, with the time range given by the pathologists.

I agree. I think she got into work at 10.45 which seemed odd. I did wonder if something had happened that morning and maybe I am confusing myself but wasn't the suggestion from what I have read that she had been injured earlier in the day and then this was the second injury but as I say I maybe confused and will search for the previous post on this Anyway it certainly seems very plausible to me that Ellie was assaulted earlier with JG there . Will be very interesting to hear her evidence as I think she may be weaker than BB at giving evidence

 

[Tillymint]

It certainly makes sense to me too. What a tangled web of lies...

 

[Gigi-G]

In a statement read out to the court, Gray’s work colleague Tracey Bernstein said she suspected something “was just not right” throughout the short time the defendant was in the office on October 28.
Gray, a graphic designer, had only been with the company for less than two weeks, the jury were told.
Ms Bernstein said: “She gathered her things, just stood up and walked out.
“The way she got up was just not right. I had the feeling she was walking out of the job and not coming back.
“I wondered if she just had enough and it wasn’t for her.”
Ms Bernstein said Gray had come into work and told her her partner was down in Cornwall, looking after his ill father, and that Ellie was being looked after by her godfather.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-butler-trial-recap-dad-7793323

Thank you Tortoise

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[Gigi-G]

I think basically... They've shot themselves in the foot..
" perverting the course of Justice"
BB said he had called a mate n was talking about bank accounts. Umm odd convo when yr daughter's led dead upstairs. But cud he be the 'godparent' escape tool?
Either way. He's gotta get himself from Cornwall to London. When I'm sure that day as I live in the West Country. The fallen trees had clogged the railway lines. So it would of been a longer journey time.
See...... the more lies you tell. The better be yr memory. Cuz once you slip up. Yr story is trashed..


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[Tortoise]

I remember reading a statement JG made either at the hospital or to the police, where she said she hadn't even seen Ellie that morning before she went to work, hadn't said goodbye, but I can't find it now for the life of me. Does anyone else recall seeing anything like that?

 

[Gigi-G]

I think basically... They've shot themselves in the foot..
" perverting the course of Justice"
BB said he had called a mate n was talking about bank accounts. Umm odd convo when yr daughter's led dead upstairs. But cud he be the 'godparent' escape tool?
Either way. He's gotta get himself from Cornwall to London. When I'm sure that day as I live in the West Country. The fallen trees had clogged the railway lines. So it would of been a longer journey time.
See...... the more lies you tell. The better be yr memory. Cuz once you slip up. Yr story is trashed..


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His over use of dramatics in the dock too. All designed to throw you off the scent to bamboozle you. As it leads to him not answering questions directly. But then he'll answer questions with a question. The guy is so annoying!

Yep, Cornwall is an alibi. But how the hell were they going to work that one through. Was he planning to leave the house and distance himself from the whole occurrence? Who would they say had been looking after the girls? It is crazy, some godfather that also disappears? Perhaps BB's friend Ian was going to be roped in for the accidental fall?

I agree. I think she got into work at 10.45 which seemed odd. I did wonder if something had happened that morning and maybe I am confusing myself but wasn't the suggestion from what I have read that she had been injured earlier in the day and then this was the second injury but as I say I maybe confused and will search for the previous post on this Anyway it certainly seems very plausible to me that Ellie was assaulted earlier with JG there . Will be very interesting to hear her evidence as I think she may be weaker than BB at giving evidence

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[Tortoise]

I think basically... They've shot themselves in the foot..
" perverting the course of Justice"
BB said he had called a mate n was talking about bank accounts. Umm odd convo when yr daughter's led dead upstairs. But cud he be the 'godparent' escape tool?
Either way. He's gotta get himself from Cornwall to London. When I'm sure that day as I live in the West Country. The fallen trees had clogged the railway lines. So it would of been a longer journey time.
See...... the more lies you tell. The better be yr memory. Cuz once you slip up. Yr story is trashed..


Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

That's his mate Ian that I referred to in my post. I think they were planning to ask him to say he had been babysitting when Ellie had the fall, to remove BB from the investigation. Didn't have the nerve to in the end, or did and he said NO WAY. So BB made up a bank account conversation instead.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree. I think she got into work at 10.45 which seemed odd. I did wonder if something had happened that morning and maybe I am confusing myself but wasn't the suggestion from what I have read that she had been injured earlier in the day and then this was the second injury but as I say I maybe confused and will search for the previous post on this Anyway it certainly seems very plausible to me that Ellie was assaulted earlier with JG there . Will be very interesting to hear her evidence as I think she may be weaker than BB at giving evidence

I think her evidence will be a lot more revealing than his was. Her lies will show the cracks in their story, because she told so many lies that day before anyone knew anything was wrong. The godfather/Cornwall story, when she didn't need to because there were transport problems she could have blamed her lateness on, his text about chilli which she said was in the taxi but it wasn't because he sent that to her before he told her to come home, the shirt with her blood on that he said he had told her to change to make it look like she hadn't been at work, not telling the taxi driver her child was ill. Her texts about nothing on her journey to work and at work, wonder if she usually did that.

I even wonder if the trouble before she left for work involved her getting injured as well, with her blood trail.

The pathologists say Ellie had suffered two or more blows to the head, is that what you're thinking of?

 

[Tortoise]

Found it!

She then described how she held her daughter's foot as they travelled to St George's Hospital in Tooting where Ellie was pronounced dead.
'I feel like it was my fault, I didn't resuscitate her properly, I didn't check on her when I came home, I didn't check on her before I left for work,' said Gray.
She said she then had to tell Butler, who arrived at the hospital separately, his daughter had died.
'He just went to pieces,' she sobbed. 'He said: 'No, it's our little baby'.
'She looked like him, always looked like him, had dark eyes and dark hair. She looks just like him.'
Gray tearfully told the officer how she blamed herself for not doing more to save her daughter.
'I felt like it's my fault I didn't resuscitate her properly. I didn't check on her when I got in. I just feel so bloody bad. If I had known something I could have done something.'

Prosecutors say the interview was a 'charade' and Gray was trying to protect Butler.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...magic-spells-make-love-her.html#ixzz49OcirrwT

 

[Tortoise]

So she left home 9/9:30 and she claims she never saw Ellie that morning. Young children don't usually sleep in late.

 

[Tortoise]

I have suspicions about the curtain pole that was hanging off the wall. He gave a most peculiar explanation for it, the storm in the night.

Wonder if the children pulled it down and he got mad.

 

[Gigi-G]

That's his mate Ian that I referred to in my post. I think they were planning to ask him to say he had been babysitting when Ellie had the fall, to remove BB from the investigation. Didn't have the nerve to in the end, or did and he said NO WAY. So BB made up a bank account conversation instead.

My thoughts exactly. But they've laid that whole scenario out in the open. With BB being at his dad's in Cornwall. I do hope that's picked up in her cross examination. As it was her that spun the tale.. wasn't it?



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[Gigi-G]

Found it!

She then described how she held her daughter's foot as they travelled to St George's Hospital in Tooting where Ellie was pronounced dead.
'I feel like it was my fault, I didn't resuscitate her properly, I didn't check on her when I came home, I didn't check on her before I left for work,' said Gray.
She said she then had to tell Butler, who arrived at the hospital separately, his daughter had died.
'He just went to pieces,' she sobbed. 'He said: 'No, it's our little baby'.
'She looked like him, always looked like him, had dark eyes and dark hair. She looks just like him.'
Gray tearfully told the officer how she blamed herself for not doing more to save her daughter.
'I felt like it's my fault I didn't resuscitate her properly. I didn't check on her when I got in. I just feel so bloody bad. If I had known something I could have done something.'

Prosecutors say the interview was a 'charade' and Gray was trying to protect Butler.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...magic-spells-make-love-her.html#ixzz49OcirrwT

And if the police didn't believe her. Then let's hope it shows her coming undone under oath.

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[Gigi-G]

I have suspicions about the curtain pole that was hanging off the wall. He gave a most peculiar explanation for it, the storm in the night.

Wonder if the children pulled it down and he got mad.

If it was off I'd of said possible weapon. But yeah possibly Tortoise. Good call

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[Gigi-G]

I really really do hope JG gets a grilling after all the things she's been stated to of said. And they're in black n white. Even in public view. In the MSM. so it's not like it can be brushed under the carpet.

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[Tortoise]

The more I suspect she was involved in this, the charade extending to her whole day not just the hour after she came home and the 999 call, the more I feel the charges aren't enough against her.

What do you all think? Is cruelty enough for the broken scapula, and perverting, if she was aware Ellie had been injured on the day she died, and she just went off to work to pretend nothing was wrong with her own daughter? Not getting medical treatment for Ellie? Is that not accessory or joint enterprise to murder or manslaughter at least?

I feel the CPS aren't even aware of the probable extent of her involvement.

 

[Tortoise]

These two make me sick.