GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[Supernovae]

“An outstanding senior junior who is completely dependable even with the most difficult brief or client." Chambers and Partners 2016 (Crime).

...

Ben FitzGerald prosecutes and defends in high-profile cases of serious crime, fraud and professional regulatory offending. He is ranked as a leader in his field by Chambers and Partners and the Legal 500.

He is a Grade 4 prosecutor for the CPS and regularly prosecutes cases of homicide and organised crime, including the ongoing child-murder case of R v Butler at the Central Criminal Court.

http://www.qebholliswhiteman.co.uk/junior-barristers/ben-fitzgerald.aspx.html

 

[cottonweaver]

I don't see him walking away. The evidence is too damning. "They" worked as a pair. To try and give each other alibi's. Except it didn't work out as BB was in actual fact 'alone' at home with the children.
And I think the Jury will see it that way.
His violent past towards women. And men. Shows he has an anger issue. But his anger is aggrevated. Because it turns into blows.
No one likes a bully. Let alone a violent bully.

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This is BB's QC Icah Peart speaking, 33 yrs in crim defence, in case you want to get a flavour.
[video=youtube;e9N-IpLXO_U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9N-IpLXO_U[/video]

 

[cottonweaver]

Exactly. She seems to be back tracking on her own words. By saying they were exaggerated or attention seeking. Nevertheless they were written from the heart. What one was feeling at the time.
You don't write... "you kneed me in my *advertiser censored* and pussy" and say that meant kneel..... what the heck. It doesn't make sense in that context.
She's digging herself a hole in her own evidence.

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BTW I found a better account of what she actually said :

Gray told the court: “I grabbed her head and hugged her and tried to see if she was breathing and I didn't think she was.

“I got down and I tried to blow air into her mouth and I heard a noise in her stomach and I saw her tummy come up.

“And the smell was terrible, this terrible smell that came out of her but mouth and came into my mouth.

“I have never smelled a smell like that before and I knew she was gone.

Detail is everything isn't it.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ionship-was-more-important-than-the-girl.html

 

[Sallyla]

What struck me as extremely odd about their account of the day E died was the fact they both said that YD had been sent to her room and they 'knew' she wouldn't come out and in particular wouldn't go to E's room.

Now that, to me, is not normal for a child of that age. They won't stay in a room if told. They want to be with other people, they don't follow instructions very well and certainly not for any length of time. They won't stay confined to a room, they will be out asking for a drink or calling for people. They would certainly be very unlikely to be able to resist the temptation to go to a sibling next door who has Peppa Pig on and might like to play.

Just the fact they expected her to do just that says to me that this was a frightened little child who was extremely well aware there could be very nasty consequences for disobeying BB. It's really not normal behaviour for a child that age and it indicates an abnormal household to me.

 

[Legally Bland]

Couple of tweets from today.

[video=twitter;735420566912503808]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/735420566912503808[/video]

CourtNewsUK‏@CourtNewsUK
Woman says of the man who is accused of battering their six-year-old daughter to death: ' Yes, I do love him.'

 

[Legally Bland]

[video=twitter;735431647018033154]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/735431647018033154[/video]

CourtNewsUK‏@CourtNewsUK
Jennie Gray, called a fat disgusting dog ***** *advertiser censored* by partner Ben Butler, says: 'He's not a nice boyfriend but was a bloody good dad

 

[Legally Bland]

[video=twitter;735465942034087936]https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/735465942034087936[/video]

lisa o'carroll‏@lisaocarroll
Ben Butler trial: Mother of Ellie Butler says child's skull injuries occurred in foster care

 

[Legally Bland]

Guardian write up from this morning.

Gray told jurors she still loves Butler and has visited him in prison almost 200 times since he was charged with Ellie’s murder in March 2014.

“Since that point you have visited him, certainly once a week, sometimes more than once a week and a total of 190 visits,” said the prosecutor Ben Fitzgerald.

“During the currency of this trial, since the beginning of April you continued to visit him every week. Why is that?”

Gray replied: “Because Ben is my family … Yes I do love him.”

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y-skull-injuries-foster-care?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[Rayemonde]

When BB said that Ellie wet herself in front of dad, I thought he was referring to himself. She wet herself in front of her dad.

 

[Legally Bland]

When BB said that Ellie wet herself in front of dad, I thought he was referring to himself. She wet herself in front of her dad.

I think you could be right. But it really isn't normal to let a kid sit there in wet clothes and send texts complaining about it rather than cleaning her up. BBM.

'I want u to start being alot tougher... Shes being an abs c*** I want to knw y she pissed herself in front of dad and sat there sulking the whole *advertiser censored**ing time.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-accused-battering-daughter-death-7938977

ETA: They just aren't normal people, I don't know why I'm expecting a degree of normalcy from them.

 

[Gigi-G]

Pretty damning report in DM this afternoon. Hi 5 Mr FitzG!

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[Gigi-G]

Would be the acids. No oxygen would cause a reaction.

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[Gigi-G]

Yes, the prosecutor, Ben FitzGerald, really hammered this home yesterday. He was making sure the jury really got it. He asked JG to explain to this jury how a mother can do that, how a mother can walk away after discovering her daughter like that and close the door, and leave her, laying alone on the floor, to make plans to save themselves, not staying with her, holding her, being there. He made an even bigger deal of the CPR charade she carried out on Ellie's body - the way he described it was like an assault although he didn't use that word, but it evoked a truly disgusting picture - the way she had used her own daughter's dead body for her own gain, pumping away at her chest for about 5-10 minutes while on the phone to the dispatcher, all in an act, waiting for the ambulance to arrive.

And he was very derisive of the way she had a/ allowed Ellie's sister to be in the room and watch her doing this, and b/ that she had left her sister unattended to be able to go back into the room and try to wake up Ellie.

I'm afraid to say it but I think she had no feelings for Ellie. That poor child was like a Cinderella when you add up all they did, and their messages about her. Just there for her own ends - to have a relationship with BB.

I really do like Mr FitzG. He's really making sure that JG is not such the lost lil lamb as she makes out to be. As we all know she is sly cunning and malicious.

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[Gigi-G]

190 times JG has visited BB since he was remanded in custody after his arrest. :0

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[Gigi-G]

[video=twitter;735431647018033154]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/735431647018033154[/video]

Ugh. Says it all. Makes me want to vomit.

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[Gigi-G]

Strange day here. Am strimmer hunting. Grumpy hates gardening n weather look blehhhhh this w/e n our strummer has gone awol!
In n out session for me today. X

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[Legally Bland]

Mail article.

Under cross-examination at the Old Bailey today, Gray said Ellie had a fractured skull before she came home, accusing social services of not pointing out the injury.

She said: ‘I’m trying to tell everyone here something doesn’t add up.’

Gray insisted that Butler, 36, never physically abused her or Ellie, saying he was a 'laddie man' who was only violent towards other men.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-social-services-relatives.html#ixzz49gFPiMS5

I don't believe for one minute that if Ellie had fractured her skull whilst in the care of SS or GP's they wouldn't have had her treated, and there'd be medical records.

And we know he's been violent towards women before.

 

[Legally Bland]

I can't remember seeing these texts before. BBC this time.

The prosecutor then read out a series of text messages from 2013 where Mr Butler blamed Ellie for Ms Gray's "mental" behaviour and said "I hate you both".

In another, he wrote: "You never listen. Your mouth. The way you react and come across a lot like Ellie. You will end up hurt."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36380633

 

[Renee110]

I agree Gigi. They didn't make the version very plausible as they left out the normal instinctual reaction.
They couldn't write the plausible version with emotion/grief/empathy ...presumably as they don't know what it is. ( Whether that's because they both suffer from complex personality disorders or they 're both just bad IDK - mix of the two.) Obviously I accept they were both shocked and fearful...... for the consequences.

I am very squeamish - I don't even watch hospital dramas etc so I have tried to look at it(her fear at seeing the body) from both sides - but death of your child is something else?
Anyway, the fact that she could do multiple rounds on CPR etc on her dead child shows she is no delicate flower.

Again apologies to those posters we know that have lost children , when discussing the more graphic aspects coming up...

When our old dog died overnight at home and we were waiting for the vet the next day ( 5 stone dog - sadly, couldn't bury in back garden) I do remember a strong smell as morning went on - but I don't think this is what she means when she describes "a smell" - any thoughts ?

The thought that first came into my head was there was internal damage for awhile and when Ellie "burped" (I can't remember the exact wording) she was smelling whatever was wrong inside Ellie. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Mail article.



I don't believe for one minute that if Ellie had fractured her skull whilst in the care of SS or GP's they wouldn't have had her treated, and there'd be medical records.

And we know he's been violent towards women before.

Well I looked back at thread 1 and the only skull injury I can find before they went back to the evil duo is -Prof Freemont found a healed skull fracture that could correlate to the 2007 incident at 6 weeks old.

At least we finally got the reasons as to why Ellie was singled out, from the horse's mouth today.

In another, he wrote: "You never listen. Your mouth. The way you react and come across a lot like Ellie. You will end up hurt."...The prosecutor then read out a series of text messages from 2013 where Mr Butler blamed Ellie for Ms Gray's "mental" behaviour and said "I hate you both".