GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

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cottonweaver said:
BTW I just saw another contradiction in his testimony - not that it matters now anyway , he is TOAST. ( I was reading a Tortoise post which mentions his diary and the "wedge heeled wine fall" LOL)

but for the hell of it might as well paste it:

17.5.16 Butler said he put a towel stained with some of Gray’s blood and some other items including a diary of hers in the bin because he sensed he would be blamed by police because of the previous overturned conviction for assaulting Ellie
18.05.16 cross- BB says the diary was thrown away ages ago. BB said it had been thrown away weeks earlier. Brown said it was in one of the bags BB had thrown away on the day of Ellie's death.

as 'weeks earlier" there was no prospect of being blamed by cops for something he hadn't done yet, his reasoning of 17th makes no sense to me.
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Oh the diary evidence has changed again during JG's time on the stand. She threw it out the morning after her birthday. And she used the bins furthest from their house because that is her route to the bus stop on her way to work. So that was 18th October it was thrown away now. I wonder how the police ever managed to come across them.

This is why I can't make her out. She has intelligence, but not in the conventional sense.

Take for instance when she said she spells knelt 'knealt'. It's so bloody obvious she doesn't, and that she knows that's an incorrect spelling, because what she's saying in effect is I know I spell it wrong, before anyone has said anything.

I can't work out the level of her - is she perhaps undermining the intelligence of people who have to listen to her drivel, or is it something else like a real mental blindness she has? I'm sure there is a better way of wording that but I can't think of one right now.
 
She invited FitzGerald to her flat. To see all her bloodied towels. She has lots of them everywhere apparently. I feel embarrassed for her.

Also offered to show him her legs today. They're covered with bruises all the time - she's just one of those people. If he doesn't want to see, she'll photograph them for him. And it can't be BB because he's in prison!

Prosecution said today there were 38 spots of her blood on Ellie's bedroom carpet. She said they were microscopic, he said no, they weren't. She says it was her menstrual blood. She would regularly sit with a towel around her in the girls' rooms, while they were playing, while her bath was running. That's her explanation.
 
cottonweaver said:
Legally B

Have you ever met a bloke like BB before, even in passing?
Some male perspective would be good on him.
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I've met a few men who have come across as incredibly aggressive, but only in passing and I haven't spent enough time in their company to get an insight into their psyche.
 
Just to add, I don't think I've ever met someone unable to stop swearing when it's inappropriate. I still find that a bit odd.
 
I've not met so much violent men. But controlling. Which I suppose if it weren't nipped in the bud it could of ended up violent. That was a bf of my daughters. And I told her. Do not under any circumstances let a man control you you are an individual a unique person. You are you. Don't change for anyone but yourself.

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Sorry I'm struggling with a fone full of updates and it's p****** me off!

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cottonweaver said:
BIB Yes, they haven't had enough practice !

She's struggling today, that was all garbled. "I don't believe she's gone. I don't think I would be here now if I believed she's gone.

"I don't know what would happen.""

all hot air.
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But, but, but... I thought she knew immediately that Ellie was dead. Right away. Instantly. That's why she closed the door. That is why she didn't call an ambulance immediately. That, and because of course an ambulance isn't the first thing that pops into your mind when you find your daughter lifeless on the floor..

I'm beyond disgusted. I hope she keeps talking and talking.
 
Legally Bland said:
Just to add, I don't think I've ever met someone unable to stop swearing when it's inappropriate. I still find that a bit odd.
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I agree, and if he says he didn't speak like that in front of the girls, you have to wonder why not - if he can't control it. His attitude towards it is as if it's some kind of Torrettes.
 
Tortoise said:
She invited FitzGerald to her flat. To see all her bloodied towels. She has lots of them everywhere apparently. I feel embarrassed for her.

Also offered to show him her legs today. They're covered with bruises all the time - she's just one of those people. If he doesn't want to see, she'll photograph them for him. And it can't be BB because he's in prison!

Prosecution said today there were 38 spots of her blood on Ellie's bedroom carpet. She said they were microscopic, he said no, they weren't. She says it was her menstrual blood. She would regularly sit with a towel around her in the girls' rooms, while they were playing, while her bath was running. That's her explanation.
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OMG...... she has answers for everything... but man that's gross! I'd keep my undies on until the last minute. Good grief. :sick:

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🙈🙉🙊

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Tortoise said:
If you were in court you would know without a doubt she left the witness stand and finished her evidence, with zero credibility. At one point some members of the jury could not stop themselves from laughing, obviously trying very hard to disguise it by putting their heads down. She went so far over the top, there is no hope for her.

Nothing that she has said has been even faintly convincing.
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FitzG was brilliant.
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That is so relieving and comforting to hear.
 
Anyway, court schedule -


Tomorrow no jury sitting - legal directions being given by judge to counsels in morning via email, and legal argument listed from 12pm

Friday - court sitting to hear Dr Mack by video link at 10am. Also jury gave judge a list of questions they want to ask JG and she might, depending on what the barristers decide, be recalled to the stand to answer them.

Next week - no court

Following week - Not sure what's happening Mon & Tues. Possible recall of Dr Stoodley to answer Dr Mack? Expecting Dr O to be linked by video on Weds 8th June - but still unconfirmed.

After that - closing arguments and summing up.
 
Oh Ellie. My heart breaks for you.

The image of her missing out on swimming, potentially because she was in dreadful pain, is just too much to bear.

This little girl looks so much like my eldest daughter. Same unusually dark and pretty eyes. It haunts me.

Thank you, Tortoise and all others, for keeping this case so well documented. We will not let this one go forgotten.
 
Tortoise said:
He pointed out that there was an internet search on Gray's computer last week of August 2013 ,for 'head swelling and trauma'

This was for BB she said, he had got into a fight on a night out. And his head was swollen up at the side to double the size.

He turned to the fact that Ellie didn't return to school for the whole of the first week of the new September term. And the school had emailed her on 2nd day of term and left voice mails on her and BB's phones, asking why Ellie wasn't in school.

She said she hadn't realised what date they went back.

He said so it's August and you don't think as a parent you had better check what date school starts and prepare for the new term.

She said no, they weren't used to being parents and things like term dates, they had been deprived of that kind of experience you get with young children, by having their babies removed.
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She never said why she didn't answer the school's email or the voice messages on their phones, and still kept Ellie off school for the rest of the week.
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Pffft. My daughter has been grown and out of the house for 12 years and yet I know when back to school season is as the stores have the class lists and supplies up front as you walk in and there are school clothes sales going on. You don't have to have children to know when school starts back up.
 
cottonweaver said:
BIB So pleased to hear this Tortoise. And they have decorum
UL and here's our man - his cv is rather impressive and he also is a panellist on the MPTS ( the panel that struck off the quack witnesses) so him & Brown together - the Drs. Julie Mack/Janice O testimony to come - I expect mincemeat to be made of them! ( Super N posted his cv couple pages back. Tx SuperN)

9590_63742.jpg
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OOhh!

He can be my UK Juan Martinez. My UK lawyer crush. :)
 
Way to go Mr FitzG! 👍👌

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