GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

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very sorry to hear you are so unwell Gigi.
I reckon your Richie Sambora will tweet you later and you'll feel better.:dance:

If the reporting from the media is correct today I would have thought JG has done an awful amount of damage to both cases. Any sympathy the jury may have had upon seeing those videos / photos will have evaporated upon hearing her evidence, in particular her justification for lying to police and hysterics in police interview and also the reason for the delay in calling the police. The fact she says poor Ellie was dead but she only called the police after the youngest went in there is another example o her and him failing to out their children's needs first. They should never have allowed a 3/4 year old into that room knowing a child had died in there ! Also she is supposed to be so distressed at the death but functions sufficiently well to make up a story and provide an Oscar winning performance in interview whilst grieving. It just beggars belief it really does . Her reason being once again to protect Ben Butler!

Re her ring I had noticed this and call me a sceptic I did wonder if they had married as if you are married there are rules on not being able to force spouses to give evidence against each other but maybe that is me just be over cynical ! Have to say I wouldn't have put anything past them. However once they became co defendants they would be hard put to try and apply that rule ! It still wouldn't surprise me if he had proposed to keep her sweet and on side because at the end of he day that is all she has really wanted ! It just seems odd to be wearing a ring now when for the last 3 years I have not seen that in any of the pictures .
 
very sorry to hear you are so unwell Gigi.
I reckon your Richie Sambora will tweet you later and you'll feel better.:dance:
Lol ty. He retweeted a tweet of mine. 😃
Another spin on why BB n JG waited to call 999. Imo.
So it would tie in with her story about hearing Ellie playing as she walked in. so as BB wasn't the lone one there. As she was with him.
Also... possibly. That calling the 999 gave BB an alibi. As they were together.

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They hadn't spoken or agreed upon their story or ever coordinated their defences. But had submitted identical defences with the same lies, his in October 2014 and hers in December 2014. She said how was she supposed to have had time to discuss their defences, when she visited him in prison there were more important things to talk about, such as how he was managing in prison. Judge pointed out that he was out on bail for 6 months before he was remanded in custody. She said she lied in her defence statement because she was still in shock - that is over one year later.

By first trial May 2015, so about a year and a half after Ellie died, jury had been either sworn in or just about to be sworn in, when BB changed his defence to say he had discovered Ellie 2 hours before they called the ambulance. The following day JG pleaded guilty to perverting the course of justice. But she said it had nothing to do with BB's admission, she had decided she wanted to tell the truth. FitzGerald scoffed at her and said that is ridiculous, you don't expect the jury to believe that.
 
If the reporting from the media is correct today I would have thought JG has done an awful amount of damage to both cases. Any sympathy the jury may have had upon seeing those videos / photos will have evaporated upon hearing her evidence, in particular her justification for lying to police and hysterics in police interview and also the reason for the delay in calling the police. The fact she says poor Ellie was dead but she only called the police after the youngest went in there is another example o her and him failing to out their children's needs first. They should never have allowed a 3/4 year old into that room knowing a child had died in there ! Also she is supposed to be so distressed at the death but functions sufficiently well to make up a story and provide an Oscar winning performance in interview whilst grieving. It just beggars belief it really does . Her reason being once again to protect Ben Butler!

Re her ring I had noticed this and call me a sceptic I did wonder if they had married as if you are married there are rules on not being able to force spouses to give evidence against each other but maybe that is me just be over cynical ! Have to say I wouldn't have put anything past them. However once they became co defendants they would be hard put to try and apply that rule ! It still wouldn't surprise me if he had proposed to keep her sweet and on side because at the end of he day that is all she has really wanted ! It just seems odd to be wearing a ring now when for the last 3 years I have not seen that in any of the pictures .
Ty Jog. That and a nice cuppa. Heavenly. :)

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Just another day of BS and lies from start to finish.

Her police interview was very interesting. She spoke then without the false airs and graces, and superiority she tries to portray to the court.
I think the Prosecution were awesome today. They played her like a fiddle. And she was getting flustered. As seen by her momentary disappearance from the Stand.
Part of me feels actually sorry for her. That's she is so naive to take his (BB) damaging verbal and physical attacks.
No woman should put up with coercive abuse. A leopard never changes his spots. He has ruined her life. Taken the life of his and her first born. Two sets of Grandparents lives. And numerous others. All because he doesn't want to be found out to be the monster that he is.
Well how do you want this to play out. Is he gonna aim for a mistake trial?
Can he pull in further experts?
Because if he can he will.
As the Judge crushed one of his experts by saying the evidence wasn't relative. The biomechanical expert couldn't give a positive answer. Just that from that height. Chances of a lethal outcome would be slim. So basically falling of the chair wouldn't give a lethal blow. Neither a fall off the bed.
Next...........



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They clearly discussed from day one and as the judge rightly said they had until March to discuss. Also their personal visits in prison would not have been monitored unlike their phone calls. Also I believe both their counsel are from the same chambers but maybe wrong so if they gave permission counsel and solicitors for both would have discussed the defence especially to check it would not become a cutthroat case ie blaming each other! Out of interest does anyone know if they actually have the same solicitors but just different counsel?
 
Just another day of BS and lies from start to finish.

Her police interview was very interesting. She spoke then without the false airs and graces, and superiority she tries to portray to the court.
Is there a link to that interview Tortoise?
Sorry my head is not working properly with this new update grr.

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What was her momentary disappearance from the stand? Sorry I must have missed that post .
 
Extra from this afternoon's DMail- can't paste any more LOADS more at the link. Another poster can quote the rest to still keep within copyright rule.



In one message in October, she wrote: 'My whole life is our relationship and comes first over everything.'

Gray told jurors she did not mean it and was prone to exaggeration.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ship-important-little-girl.html#ixzz49aFiHNqy

They haven't quoted the full text.

One message in August 2013 she wrote 'I love [or I want - I can't remember which] you more than anything. More than my children.'

Then in another one she wrote more along the lines of what has been quoted above.
 
Whenever I watch Judge Judy, or other court case shows, and someone is loud, rude, defensive and interrupts, I NEVER believe them. I don't see how they think if they alienate everyone it will help their case? Could this strategy be the lawyer's? Maybe I'm wrong, and they think if they sling enough poop against the wall it will confuse jurors? I just cannot wrap my mind around this behavior in court, when their very freedom is on the line.
 
Is there a link to that interview Tortoise?
Sorry my head is not working properly with this new update grr.

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I don't think it's been released to the media Gigi.
 
Whenever I watch Judge Judy, or other court case shows, and someone is loud, rude, defensive and interrupts, I NEVER believe them. I don't see how they think if they alienate everyone it will help their case? Could this strategy be the lawyer's? Maybe I'm wrong, and they think if they sling enough poop against the wall it will confuse jurors? I just cannot wrap my mind around this behavior in court, when their very freedom is on the line.

She's looking really foolish. She has lied and accused everyone else of lying, except BB, about everything she did that day. Her 'I'm coming clean now' act is not working, and will not wash with the jury. Mark my words.
 
I would imagine they are very difficult clients to deal with. Stories changing all the time and not listening to advice. I can imagine the advice JG will have been given and has clearly firmly been ignored. If I was her solicitor I would have told her to distance herself and endear yourself to the jury. Once again she puts BB first instead. I would think the solicitors have made them sign all their instructions that are contrary to advice given just to cover any future complaint and now are just going with what they have got knowing it will be likely to fail. I very much doubt this is the strategy the barristers would want to follow i know I wouldn't!
 
Was there anymore clarification from her or ques put to her re her blood trail. Sorry to bombard you tortoise I would loved to have gone into court at some point myself but due to work couldn't get there
 
What was her momentary disappearance from the stand? Sorry I must have missed that post .

I missed the first hour this morning. When I got there prosecution stood up to start cross-exam, so I missed that little drama. But I got an update from another court watcher. Was told she cried crocodile tears, and within a minute was continuing as if nothing had happened Switches it on and off at will. She is acting. He was acting. There has been no genuine grief or emotion from either of them. zero.
 
Was there anymore clarification from her or ques put to her re her blood trail. Sorry to bombard you tortoise I would loved to have gone into court at some point myself but due to work couldn't get there

I'll do a post to outline what her version was in her police interview and what it is now. I'm half here and half attending to dinner, so it'll take a little while.
 
Re her ring I had noticed this and call me a sceptic I did wonder if they had married as if you are married there are rules on not being able to force spouses to give evidence against each other but maybe that is me just be over cynical ! Have to say I wouldn't have put anything past them. However once they became co defendants they would be hard put to try and apply that rule ! It still wouldn't surprise me if he had proposed to keep her sweet and on side because at the end of he day that is all she has really wanted ! It just seems odd to be wearing a ring now when for the last 3 years I have not seen that in any of the pictures .
snipped
BIB That's what I was thinking, as the rules of spousal privilege won't help them here AFAIK. This is to secure her loyalty.
As said in thread 1 re the 2007 + fight - she actually gains from these struggles - he now needs her yet he cannot physically hurt her, nor can he leave, the tables turn IMO.
BUT it could simply be as Gigi said - she bought it herself to make herself feel better. The "arrested development" side of her - maybe she even knows it will be seen in the papers as in gossip mags IDK

She has said previously that she is supporting him due to his innocence not her partiality and he has attempted to down play the relationship for similar motives.
 
JG didn't leave the stand today - it was BB who left "with his hand on his chest" ( a the point in her testimony where she sees him on the floor crying) and then returned very shortly afterwards.

It's in DM but it's hard to spot.
I put all the possible links up so Tortoise can concentrate on what hasn't been reported.
 
JG didn't leave the stand today - it was BB who left "with his hand on his chest" ( a the point in her testimony where she sees him on the floor crying) and then returned very shortly afterwards.

It's in DM but it's hard to spot.
I put all the possible links up so Tortoise can concentrate on what hasn't been reported.

Constant theatrics again then!

Can I just say that JG clearly must be either of limited intelligence or suffer from some other psychological problem . Her strategy should have been so simple "I am so sorry , I was so down trodden and defeated I went along with it all. I was at fault for the hour or so after I got he call. I can't take it back and have lost everything. Even if I don't think he killed her I understand why this case has been brought He was violent but only to me I have had time to think but just so sorry". She would have got a lot of empathy from the jurors and ironically may not have damaged his case as much as she has done now! I do fear that the evidence re the broken scapula may not be strong enough and that appears to be the only incident crown rely on for child cruelty. Also the jury have a terrible task and will think long and hard before convicting of the most serious charge of murder so he could walk away again. Leaving her to face sentence for perverting. Do we think Bb will go and faithfully visit her in prison. I think not he will cut her loose and leave her to it!
 

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