GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #10

[ColourPurple]

Not sure a tablet crusher would work. They are basically the same as tamper proof oxy tabs in the states where they are covered a strange microfilm that's sorta dissolved in stomach acids and not water. I have no doubt be some research it could be done. But I watched a programme on oxy in Pennsylvania and those tamper proof tabs are worth way less than their counterparts as it's a complete pain making them soluble for injection.

Tho I'm no expert. Do we have an eta for a verdict on this case?

If all else fails he could put them in a bag and use a hammer lol . ( I have memories of doing that to some hard to crush tablets myself once and no recollection of why:blushing, I'm sure he'd have found a way.

 

[Dizzie]

I suggested that the Zopiclone pills might have been inserted whole (or perhaps haved as you suggest) inside an emptied out capsule but wasn't sure how big the pills are (Dolly is our resident expert!). Even if they were too large to pop inside a paracetamol then they would very likely fit inside an emptied out herbal capsule - some of those perishers are like torpedoes! Having said that, traces of paracetamol were found in Helen's body.

They are very small tablets, first time I saw it I thought no way this will knock me out - dead wrong, they are extremely potent.

 

[ZaZara]

I mean, it's a ridiculously crude photoshop, but still... I'm trying not to give my bosses too many reasons to sack me. :laughing:

YES YES YES! SO MUCH BETTER! love the ivy too.... great detail!

Thank you LozDa!

:yourock:

 

[Tortoise]

Great photo LozDa, I looked at it before I'd read your post and thought oh I haven't seen that one before, wonder why not, it's lovely!

 

[LozDa]

The jurors will have got to know each other by now, on tea breaks etc. I think it quickly becomes apparent in a group setting or at a party or dinner party, who doesn't mind speaking to the whole group and who does. It just seems to sort itself out and so it isn't a surprise when you get in the jury room when that person volunteers. If not, then it will take a bit of discussion and suggestion from the group of a good candidate.

The jury I was on, during coffee etc, we had a show of hands to see how people were leaning. Then it goes from there, those with questions on the evidence state them, and others say why they discount/count it.

If there is a question that no one can answer to everyone's satisfaction you can send a note to the judge, and you all have to reconvene in the court room, counsels and all parties, to get the answer.

Perfect, thank you! :loveyou:

 

[Dizzie]

If all else fails he could put them in a bag and use a hammer lol . ( I have memories of doing that to some hard to crush tablets myself once and no recollection of why:blushing, I'm sure he'd have found a way.

Prolly looked up the way drug addicts do it. Plenty of forums for that most likely. Have they delved into his web history? Tho he may well use vpn/tor If he worked in computers which would render it useless if he wiped the pic after.

 

[Mindie304]

I have been playing catch up for days now and there are so many threads. One thing that struck me as strange that IS said to the police was HB cream was missing, it's almost as strange as the garage door. Maybe he was crushing the tablets like Dolly did and putting it in her cream, just a thought I can't get out of my head now

I suggested that the Zopiclone pills might have been inserted whole (or perhaps haved as you suggest) inside an emptied out capsule but wasn't sure how big the pills are (Dolly is our resident expert!). Even if they were too large to pop inside a paracetamol then they would very likely fit inside an emptied out herbal capsule - some of those perishers are like torpedoes! Having said that, traces of paracetamol were found in Helen's body.

ETA Crossed with other responses

 

[ColourPurple]

I can only think of two pieces of evidence that may cause the jury any doubt

1. That the judge said IS described Nick & Joe as having a dark coloured jeep long before the witness had given his statement about seeing Helen in a dark jeep after she was missing(And didnt mention that the witnesses had already told the press about the dark jeep long befopre IS mentioned it )

2. That there was a Nick and a Joe in the diaries.( though they were common names and IS may have read the diaries)

That's the only two things I can come up with but would they be enough to cause more than reasonable doubt?

 

[SweetCinnamon]

I know the colour of Helen's eyes from a glance at her photo

 

[ColourPurple]

Prolly looked up the way drug addicts do it. Plenty of forums for that most likely. Have they delved into his web history? Tho he may well use vpn/tor If he worked in computers which would render it useless if he wiped the pic after.

His web history had been deleted and they only managed to retrieve a tiny bit of detail from his computer.

 

[janeh]

Helen kept her herbal and vitamin suplements in little labelled bag/s apparently so it would be quite easy for IS to open a capsule, either add powdered zopiclone to it or tip out what was normally in it and put powdered zopiclone in. Then hand her her tablets to take with breakfast or a nice cup of tea. Maybe she used to put them out ready to take.Putting two halves in might affect how the tablet felt, a possible rattle when moving, so I think he'd be more likely to use powdered.

Yes I hadn't thought of noticing something moving or rattling inside. However he has acomplished it so easily demonstrates the lengths he was prepared to go to in order to achieve his aim. Not only in this respect, but in all aspects of his intentions and deceit. His whole day to day existence with HB must have been taken up with lies and covering his tracks.

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[Tortoise]

I have been playing catch up for days now and there are so many threads. One thing that struck me as strange that IS said to the police was HB cream was missing, it's almost as strange as the garage door. Maybe he was crushing the tablets like Dolly did and putting it in her cream, just a thought I can't get out of my head now

Do you mean so it was absorbed through her skin?

 

[wolfcub]

If all else fails he could put them in a bag and use a hammer lol . ( I have memories of doing that to some hard to crush tablets myself once and no recollection of why:blushing, I'm sure he'd have found a way.

My dear Dad used to do that to hard boiled sweets so that we didn't choke on them, bless him (on the other side now).

 

[Alyce]

Prolly looked up the way drug addicts do it. Plenty of forums for that most likely. Have they delved into his web history? Tho he may well use vpn/tor If he worked in computers which would render it useless if he wiped the pic after.

having read some of the questions he asked on various forums, I don't think his capabilities stretch to tor or vpn.

 

[janeh]

Not sure a tablet crusher would work. They are basically the same as tamper proof oxy tabs in the states where they are covered a strange microfilm that's sorta dissolved in stomach acids and not water. I have no doubt be some research it could be done. But I watched a programme on oxy in Pennsylvania and those tamper proof tabs are worth way less than their counterparts as it's a complete pain making them soluble for injection.

Zopiclone tabs are tiny anyway, like a quarter size of a paracetamol 500.

Tho I'm no expert. Do we have an eta for a verdict on this case?

I have just been prescribed them at I am surprised at how small they are. I am not intending to carry out any experiments though lol.

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[Mindie304]

Yes everytime it's applied

Do you mean so it was absorbed through her skin?

 

[TheRisenBishop]

I can only think of two pieces of evidence that may cause the jury any doubt

1. That the judge said IS described Nick & Joe as having a dark coloured jeep long before the witness had given his statement about seeing Helen in a dark jeep after she was missing(And didnt mention that the witnesses had already told the press about the dark jeep long befopre IS mentioned it )

2. That there was a Nick and a Joe in the diaries.( though they were common names and IS may have read the diaries)

That's the only two things I can come up with but would they be enough to cause more than reasonable doubt?

These should not constitute a reasonable doubt. Moreover, given the avalanche of bull *advertiser censored* defence evidence tailored to subvert the prosecution's case, it is remarkable that there aren't more coincidences that match Stewart's version.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day! It's no more and no less than this.

 

[Cinnalauda]

All caught up! Glad to hear we're now on verdict watch. I'm leaning towards Thursday for a verdict, but I hope it will be sooner. The faster he's behind bars the better. I hadn't heard before that he had been told it was a 95% chance it could have been cancer. Really? Would a doctor say that?

 

[Tortoise]

The only thing that makes me hesitate about him having doctored her vitamins is that she didn't have this sleep problem every day. He controlled it, so she was fine at the weekend and the day she went to the solicitor for example.

That's why I think he was doctoring paracetamol capsules. Perhaps she had her own personal paracetamol supply separate from the family's, and at other times he would take them to her as Strimmer suggested, because she was getting withdrawal headaches.

 

[Cinnalauda]

These should not constitute a reasonable doubt. Moreover, given the avalanche of bull *advertiser censored* defence evidence tailored to subvert the prosecution's case, it is remarkable that there aren't more coincidences that match Stewart's version.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day! It's no more and no less than this.

Was it mentioned in summing up that the info on the dark Range Rover had been published in a newspaper before IS's arrest?