GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #7

[Duchy]

TIM PENN specialises in:-

Property conveyancing (both residential and commercial);
Leases and Tenancy Agreements (residential and commercial);
Wills (including Inheritance Tax planning and Powers of Attorney);
Probate and Administration of Estates;
Business Agreements including partnerships and company formations;



http://www.penn-sassoli.co.uk/

So yes they handle conveyancing.

 

[michelle230]

Hi I`m back - full of Rogan Josh and wine!
At the end of the day (last half hour or so) the jury were sent out while deliberations went on. It was regarding various things that the jury had heard but there were discussions as to whether these things should be allowed or not because they were not in IS statement. Am I allowed to say what these things are? Don`t want to post anything that I`m not supposed to :thinking:

 

[ColourPurple]

But Colour Purple - we have all operated on two levels within love and mistrust. We in - extremis - can shift around in our thoughts. Are we mad to imagine this? No - I trust my 'dark mood' of awareness? Did Helen waken on Monday - and thought, you are crazy - you have the best love in the world - these are just more of your dark thoughts .. following on from hideous grief. And you are misjudging and fearful of marriage. Perhaps it comes from disloyalty towards JS and you are now mirroring a disloyal feeling towards your future husband.
BUT the conversations have taken place with IS. OK up in the morning and push forward with our plans and wedding venues .. get this out of your head. Ignore your ridiculous thoughts and let's go forward.

I know what your'e saying but we know that she was discussing wedding plans with a friend online that morning and looking at wedding venues right up until her online activity stopped that morning. I so wish she had have bloody left him though

 

[Legally Bland]

Hi I`m back - full of Rogan Josh and wine!
At the end of the day (last half hour or so) the jury were sent out while deliberations went on. It was regarding various things that the jury had heard but there were discussions as to whether these things should be allowed or not because they were not in IS statement. Am I allowed to say what these things are? Don`t want to post anything that I`m not supposed to :thinking:

Don't post. I want you to, mind.

 

[Duchy]

From Pips:

'I've just had a quick look at Helen's private Facebook page and a couple of things really stand out to me. On April 1 she asked if anyone local knew of a "really good and quick conveyancing solicitor". Her last post was on Sunday April 10, about Aston Martin vintage cars. The last thing she wrote was a comment on Monday April 11 at 10.09am. A friend wrote a comment at 11.41am which Helen neither replied to, nor "liked", which is most out of character for her. The chat was definitely Helen's style, I cannot see IS being able to impersonate her.'

Could she have discovered something since writing that last comment I wonder? Something she discovered after 10.09 am and then IS murdered her before 11.41 am?

It doesn't sound as though Helen was under the influence of zopiclone at 10.09 - enough so that he could easily smother her.

 

[ColourPurple]

Hi I`m back - full of Rogan Josh and wine!
At the end of the day (last half hour or so) the jury were sent out while deliberations went on. It was regarding various things that the jury had heard but there were discussions as to whether these things should be allowed or not because they were not in IS statement. Am I allowed to say what these things are? Don`t want to post anything that I`m not supposed to :thinking:

I wouldn't risk it TBH.

Tell us once they've sent him down

 

[Cherwell]

Seems pretty run-of-the-mill to me.

She wanted the flat sale handled by a solicitor local to her - obviously for her convenience. And yes, conveyancing is commonly handled by solicitors. Usually someone in the firm specialises in it.

And she wanted someone who would get the job done quickly. I have known property sales held up for ages because the solicitors dragged their feet.

As for the Aston Martin, Pips should be able to tell us what that was about. Most likely a wedding car, that's my bet.

 

[neteditor]

Hi I`m back - full of Rogan Josh and wine!
At the end of the day (last half hour or so) the jury were sent out while deliberations went on. It was regarding various things that the jury had heard but there were discussions as to whether these things should be allowed or not because they were not in IS statement. Am I allowed to say what these things are? Don`t want to post anything that I`m not supposed to :thinking:

We post an awful lot of things on here that are not lawful while a case is sub judice. Anything at all that has not been put before the jury in open court should not be discussed, if we're going to get picky. The only reason we get away with it is because this site is hosted in the good ol' US of A and outside of the jurisdiction English courts.

The jury is always told not to do any research on the internet, or to read any newspapers etc, during the trial. They are only allowed to base their deliberations on the evidence put before them.

Personally, I would err on the side of caution and not risk upsetting the judiciary. The last thing you want is to get to court one morning and find they won't let you in or worse they haul you before the judge for a contempt hearing.

You can always pm me though

ETA if the jury has already heard them, it will be up to the judge to tell them to disregard that evidence. You won't be risking much by saying it here to be honest.

 

[neteditor]

Seems pretty run-of-the-mill to me.

She wanted the flat sale handled by a solicitor local to her - obviously for her convenience. And yes, conveyancing is commonly handled by solicitors. Usually someone in the firm specialises in it.

And she wanted someone who would get the job done quickly. I have known property sales held up for ages because the solicitors dragged their feet.

As for the Aston Martin, Pips should be able to tell us what that was about. Most likely a wedding car, that's my bet.

I think a lot of solicitors offices now have conveyancing clerks, basically super secretaries who are trained to do all the humdrum paperwork. The solicitor just does the rubber stamping at the end

 

[ColourPurple]

It doesn't sound as though Helen was under the influence of zopiclone at 10.09 - enough so that he could easily smother her.

Doesn't look like it kicked until a bit later but another thing that's weird is she emailed her friend then minutes later when her friend rang it went to voice mail which her friend said was unusual. So did she go from being sleepy but able to email to being zonked out completely minutes later? Or did she fall asleep in the middle of writing an email and then IS just clicked SEND once she was already semi conscious or worse

 

[Duchy]

I think a lot of solicitors offices now have conveyancing clerks, basically super secretaries who are trained to do all the humdrum paperwork. The solicitor just does the rubber stamping at the end

I wonder how far along the sale had gone?

 

[michelle230]

We post an awful lot of things on here that are not lawful while a case is sub judice. Anything at all that has not been put before the jury in open court should not be discussed, if we're going to get picky. The only reason we get away with it is because this site is hosted in the good ol' US of A and outside of the jurisdiction English courts.

The jury is always told not to do any research on the internet, or to read any newspapers etc, during the trial. They are only allowed to base their deliberations on the evidence put before them.

Personally, I would err on the side of caution and not risk upsetting the judiciary. The last thing you want is to get to court one morning and find they won't let you in or worse they haul you before the judge for a contempt hearing.

You can always pm me though

ETA if the jury has already heard them, it will be up to the judge to tell them to disregard that evidence. You won't be risking much by saying it here to be honest.

Thanks Net - I did just PM you! I kind of thought that if the jury had heard then it would be ok to post, but if it`s not going to be allowed as evidence, then maybe not. Have a look at the PM and if it`s already out there in public then I can post. If not anyone who want to know just send me a quick PM. I`ll do a cut/paste.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Regarding the view that IS may have been prompted to kill Helen on the Monday by a specific trigger, I thought it interesting that Trimmer mentioned the sleeping pills in this context today. Sorry I can't find the direct quote but he said words to the effect that Helen was increasingly complaining of tiredness and was on the verge of seeing a doctor - at which point a blood test would likely be done and his drugging would be exposed.

Could this looming fear of Helen getting a blood test have hastened the murder? It would have blown him and his murder plan out the water of she had - it could have been quite a powerful prompt for him to take action.

 

[ColourPurple]

Seems pretty run-of-the-mill to me.

She wanted the flat sale handled by a solicitor local to her - obviously for her convenience. And yes, conveyancing is commonly handled by solicitors. Usually someone in the firm specialises in it.

And she wanted someone who would get the job done quickly. I have known property sales held up for ages because the solicitors dragged their feet.

.

So on April 1st she hadn't already got a solicitor to handle the property sale?He was trying to move everything along quickly then wasnt he

 

[Squamous]

I keep thinking about the flat buyer. Imagine finding your purchase had fallen through for these reasons!

 

[ColourPurple]

Regarding the view that IS may have been prompted to kill Helen on the Monday by a specific trigger, I thought it interesting that Trimmer mentioned the sleeping pills in this context today. Sorry I can't find the direct quote but he said words to the effect that Helen was increasingly complaining of tiredness and was on the verge of seeing a doctor - at which point a blood test would likely be done and his drugging would be exposed.

Could this looming fear of Helen getting a blood test have hastened the murder? It would have blown him and his murder plan out the water of she had - it could have been quite a powerful prompt for him to take action.

I thought that was a strange thing to say because I don't think a standard blood requested for tiredness would pick up sleeping pill use. They'd just be checking for medical causes like anemia, thyroid etc

 

[Rayemonde]

Oh my my gosh, I've been busy today and when I glanced at the thread and saw that Nick and Joe had been called I thought they must have been called as defence witnesses to say "We done it guvnor, it's a fair cop, it weren't Ian at all in any way" :rolling:

I would have loved to have been there to see them turn up in court :rolling:

 

[michelle230]

Oh my my gosh, I've been busy today and when I glanced at the thread and saw that Nick and Joe had been called I thought they must have been called as defence witnesses to say "We done it guvnor, it's a fair cop, it weren't Ian at all in any way" :rolling:

I would have loved to have been there to see them turn up in court :rolling:

You missed a real treat!!! It was very, very funny and a brilliant move on the part of Mr Trimmer!

 

[michelle230]

Just been told it`s ok (be it on your head!!!!) :jail:

It was two pieces of evidence:
1. The £500,000 that the kidnappers apparently wanted for ransom money as the folder had not been found!
2. The other was the searches that Helen had apparently done on her Ipad re: zophiclone.
Neither of these facts were in IS`s defence statement so the bigwigs are discussing whether to allow or not!
And yes - that`s why it`s 9.45 tomorrow.

 

[DollyDiamond]

I thought that was a strange thing to say because I don't think a standard blood requested for tiredness would pick up sleeping pill use. They'd just be checking for medical causes like anemia, thyroid etc

It could have been a very real worry to IS though - in the same way he didn't understand the reality of POA he didn't know for sure what a blood test would or wouldn't uncover.