GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #8

[faybradshaw]

No worries. I think my brain is in overdrive trying to work out what evidence they have.

If it's for the pros, let Helen's voice be heard through her book

 

[MissTwiddle]

Does she not say anything in her book about IS giving her a ring, and not knowing it was Diane's?

This is all I can find, it does mention a new ring but it doesn't say where it's come from and I can't view the page before it .

 

[cottonweaver]

I think you must be right in focusing on this. If the evidence that's being brought in now is to counter claims made by IS which were not in his defence statement and of which Prosecution had no knowledge, one part that Strimmer pointed out to IS was the Zopiclone searches (computer expert evidence) and the other was the ransom money IS said was being demanded by Nick and Joe. Can't quite see how the book's refs to David Jensen will do any more to discredit this obviously fictional claim, but maybe...

To clarify my Original Post which referred to a scenario where the Defence submits tomorrow
IF the DEf are bringing the book in tomorrow - I wondered if there is something tenuous there re. the past litigation.

IF the Pros are bringing in the book. ^ My post isn't relevant. It could be any one of a number of things. As you said, Zop could be one of them.

 

[Moll]

My understanding is that the expert has had another investigation of the ipad and has not found searches re: zopiclone. IS said she searched on her iPad and showed him (IIRC?) and must have deleted the history. I believe the expert has specifically investigated this precise area.

This is MOO: Remember the legal adjournment on Monday? The prosecution wanted to know if the evidence about Helen deleting these searches, and the 500k ransom demand, were admissable as IS had not put them into his defence statement (so the police had not been able to investigate them previously). It looks like the judge has said they are admissable (since he hasn't directed to strike them out) but has allowed the prosecution to investigate and bring new evidence to court. I feel inclined to assume, based on this, that the 500k demand could be the other evidence... could there be anything in a book related to that? Of course it might be hard to investigate that since J&N don't exist to ask...

Just what I was thinking, neteditor (posted a moment before you, after brooding on previous posts) although as RisenBishop says, there will no doubt be many other points in IS's testimony that have caused people to get in touch.

ETA I am now going to force myself to stay away from here until tomorrow.

 

[Alyce]

Two pics with books in the background

I've had the magnifying glass out !! but no luck

 

[neteditor]

This is all I can find, it does mention a new ring but it doesn't say where it's come from and I can't view the page before it .

That was her rings from JS.

 

[Alyce]

here's a snippet from the book

Angry Bird chapter

Ive fired off angry letters to financial institutions and accountants and been uncharacteristically abusive to a man who keeps asking me to help him with a business issue which is no longer anything to do with me, something I have pointed out ( nicely ) for months

 

[Cherwell]

That was her rings from JS.

Yes, this was nothing to do with Ian Stewart.

I remember something about a "token" ring too, but I don't think any more detail or description was given.

 

[neteditor]

Blimey although I'm sure your OBF is astute.


I would've voted No to Jessie's poll suggestion , just cause I thought:
he knows he's a B.Ser but his psychology means he just has to do this, even though he knows he is stuffed AND these psychopaths are meant to be good on emotional intelligence/picking up signs but...... Risen Bishop would be better on all that aspect.... will stop waffling.

I'd say he's an absolutely terrible judge of character - he's been my friend for nearly 30 years

Seriously though, he'd have a hell of a lot of experience of watching defendants and jurors and assessing their attitudes. I'm very comfortable accepting his opinion on this.

 

[LozDa]

Not sure I have the patience to follow trials. The slow pace is punishing :-/ I want to know NOW [emoji31][emoji31][emoji31]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haha, come on Snoopy, one more day! You've managed weeks and weeks of this one - just the final push and then we'll be home and dry.

I'm not sure what I'll do when it's over to be honest. It's occupied most of my thoughts for so long. I've been seeing Helen everywhere I go and telling my significant other about the absurdity of IS' defence at every opportunity. It will take a little while for it to not be at the forefront of my mind, I'm sure.

I think it will be sad too, not to all continue coming together in community, armed with intrigue, anger and incredulousness over his actions. We'll disperse off into other cases, or away from the forum entirely. I know that Helen & Boris have touched many people's lives; in life and in death. It will be sad not to share that with each other every day, as we have been doing. But then... life does in fact go on for the lucky of us.

Thanks for sharing this with me, one and all. The outcome will be the right one, I don't doubt that. One more day. x

 

[neteditor]

Yes, this was nothing to do with Ian Stewart.

I remember something about a "token" ring too, but I don't think any more detail or description was given.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-day-12441178

I apologise it appears to be Tracey Stratton's evidence:

[FONT=&quot]Tracey said Helen then moved in with Stewart and got a house in Royston.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]She said: “She missed London a lot, she’d been there most of her adult life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“She was happy in Royston, it was just an adjustment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“She confided in me that she might get married to Ian, he had given her a ring as a token, but it was not an engagement ring.[/FONT]

 

[TheRisenBishop]

Blimey although I'm sure your OBF is astute.


I would've voted No to Jessie's poll suggestion , just cause I thought:
he knows he's a B.Ser but his psychology means he just has to do this, even though he knows he is stuffed AND these psychopaths are meant to be good on emotional intelligence/picking up signs but...... Risen Bishop would be better on all that aspect.... will stop waffling.

I agree with you CW, your rationale is spot on. He's not delusional, far from it! He knows his story is BS but he also knows that he has to play along with what to him are artificial constructs imposed on him by lesser beings. That is feelings, love, morals and empathy that the jury will feel and expect him to feel too. So, like all intelligent psychopaths he has learned to mimic these to help him project whatever persona he needs to in order to fulfil his aims.

His aims right now are two-fold:

1. to convince the jury he is innocent.
2. in the event he can't convince them of his innocence (he knows he can't) he just wants to enjoy the intriguing and fascinating feelings the drama of the trial allow him to feel. He feels alive and satiated.

The persona of confidence he currently exudes is merely a symptom or projection of the the intense calm and fascination he feels. Neteditor's OBF has understandably misinterpreted his confidence as a sign he believes he is convincing the jury. My view is he knows he's not convincing anyone but he's still enjoying the ride.

Hope this makes sense

 

[neteditor]

Haha, come on Snoopy, one more day! You've managed weeks and weeks of this one - just the final push and then we'll be home and dry.

I'm not sure what I'll do when it's over to be honest. It's occupied most of my thoughts for so long. I've been seeing Helen everywhere I go and telling my significant other about the absurdity of IS' defence at every opportunity. It will take a little while for it to not be at the forefront of my mind, I'm sure.

I think it will be sad too, not to all continue coming together in community, armed with intrigue, anger and incredulousness over his actions. We'll disperse off into other cases, or away from the forum entirely. I know that Helen & Boris have touched many people's lives; in life and in death. It will be sad not to share that with each other every day, as we have been doing. But then... life does in fact go on for the lucky of us.

Thanks for sharing this with me, one and all. The outcome will be the right one, I don't doubt that. One more day. x

I'm sure, for me, there will be another case along soon that will involve me as much as this one. Perhaps that is the old journo in me that can't let go.

During this case, I have made two wonderful new friends, we have moved our contact from here to other places and I am feeling blessed. I also think Helen would approve of women coming together in friendship as a result of this awful mess. Hunkerdown is getting a Boris/Bailey. I feel I've experienced an incredible example of selflessness, kindness and understanding from the actions of the dear Mr John B, and his partner, who seem to be able to spread warmth and love despite their tragic loss and trauma of this awful trial. Despite the horror of it all, I feel Helen has given me some wonderful gifts. I never met her, but I know I will never forget her. I will be buying all of her books.

 

[Cherwell]

The proper thing to do with rings in this situation, in my opinion, would be to give them to relatives of the deceased lady.
There's no daughters in this case, but the sons might have liked to have them to give to their wives or daughters in due course.
Or the sister of the deceased.

 

[neteditor]

The proper thing to do with rings in this situation, in my opinion, would be to give them to relatives of the deceased lady.
There's no daughters in this case, but the sons might have liked to have them to give to their wives or daughters in due course.
Or the sister of the deceased.

Agreed and I feel certain Helen would not have raked through Diane's jewellery box and helped herself, far less described it to Tracey as a token. She'd have said keep those for the boys.

 

[icemaiden65]

Haha, come on Snoopy, one more day! You've managed weeks and weeks of this one - just the final push and then we'll be home and dry.

I'm not sure what I'll do when it's over to be honest. It's occupied most of my thoughts for so long. I've been seeing Helen everywhere I go and telling my significant other about the absurdity of IS' defence at every opportunity. It will take a little while for it to not be at the forefront of my mind, I'm sure.

I think it will be sad too, not to all continue coming together in community, armed with intrigue, anger and incredulousness over his actions. We'll disperse off into other cases, or away from the forum entirely. I know that Helen & Boris have touched many people's lives; in life and in death. It will be sad not to share that with each other every day, as we have been doing. But then... life does in fact go on for the lucky of us.

Thanks for sharing this with me, one and all. The outcome will be the right one, I don't doubt that. One more day. x

You summed it up perfectly! x

 

[LozDa]

Agreed and I feel certain Helen would not have raked through Diane's jewellery box and helped herself, far less described it to Tracey as a token. She'd have said keep those for the boys.

Additionally, didn't Helen make mention of the fact that there was a certain amount of natural jealousy there regarding the wife. It's completely normal to feel jealous about an ex - no matter how they became so. I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to wear something that belonged to someone else who had previously been in a relationship with the other person!

I bet his sons were aghast at that bit. Terrible.

 

[Cherwell]

Agreed and I feel certain Helen would not have raked through Diane's jewellery box and helped herself, far less described it to Tracey as a token. She'd have said keep those for the boys.

I agree. I'm sure she knew nothing of the provenance of the ring, if indeed it was Diane's ring that he gave her.

 

[Squamous]

The engagement was not mentioned in her blog or book, if you look on the first thread here from when she went missing a lot of people didn't believe she was engaged at all.

ETA I think probably IS did give Helen Diane's ring but that she never knew its origins. Or hid them if she did know, because she wanted people to like IS and it's clearly bonkers behaviour.

 

[cottonweaver]

I agree with you CW, your rationale is spot on. He's not delusional, far from it! He knows his story is BS but he also knows that he has to play along with what to him are artificial constructs imposed on him by lesser beings. That is feelings, love, morals and empathy that the jury will feel and expect him to feel too. So, like all intelligent psychopaths he has learned to mimic these to help him project whatever persona he needs to in order to fulfil his aims.

His aims right now are two-fold:

1. to convince the jury he is innocent.
2. in the event he can't convince them of his innocence (he knows he can't) he just wants to enjoy the intriguing and fascinating feelings the drama of the trial allow him to feel. He feels alive and satiated.

The persona of confidence he currently exudes is merely a symptom or projection of the the intense calm and fascination he feels. Neteditor's OBF has understandably misinterpreted his confidence as a sign he believes he is convincing the jury. My view is he knows he's not convincing anyone but he's still enjoying the ride.

Hope this makes sense

that's great thankyou.

re ur ....."to convince the jury he is innocent."

I'm way off the mark as i was thinking he viewed that as "sport" at the most.

I assumed he knew he had little chance of success there but what the hell he will "die trying" and get satisfaction from thinking he has also given it his best shot , scored a few tiny cons and naturally he can't ever let the mask slip to his family - that he is the evil being that trimmer says he is .

Trimmer: “Killing a woman like Helen Bailey and disposing of her body is a pretty evil thing”
Stewart: “Sick and disgusting.”