GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #4

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Re the poll, fascinating interim result. I see GR’s still ahead by a nose, but not for much longer, I’m willing to bet.

To be honest, I fear that a lot of sleuthing effort is being dissipated. True, GR may not have done himself any favours: the 4 hours it took to “wake up”, the press conferences, the laying of flowers, the new year message……But all this I think says more about the kind of person he is (eg not fond of the limelight), and the way the relationship was (ie not perfect, unbeknownst to Jo’s best friend). BTW, isn’t it curious that the best friend’s report of that last phone conversation includes no mention of GR, especially with his being on the way to Sheffield in atrocious weather? There was nothing along the lines of: “Hope he’ll be all right in the snow.” “I’ll check he got there all right later…”. But maybe I’ve missed that, since I’ve not really been focusing on him.

What I find really significant, though, is the car sightings in Longwood Lane on Sat 18th , which were reported before Jo was even known to be missing. If the murder was committed at around 9pm on Fri 17th, , picture the scene: he’s standing over her body, when at 9.20pm, a text message comes in. This makes him jump out of his skin! It’s a wake-up call, telling him that, despite GR being away all weekend, there may not be as much time to deal with the body as he’d like: he could be disturbed by others (following-up a lack of response to the text, for example) at any moment. So he gets cracking, and at least gets the body out of the flat. The chances are, it was then dumped a few hours later, and done in a hurry because of the risk of being seen in Longwood Lane. Once safely back at his own home in the early hours of Saturday, the perp would have been reviewing his last night’s efforts. He’d be cursing his luck over the once-in-a-lifetime snowfall: “Suppose someone, a security man perhaps, arrives at the quarry, sees the body, and then sees my tyre tracks and footprints in the snow?”. Also: “In my haste, did I leave any other clues? Better get back there and check!” So off he goes with a rake in the trunk/boot. But this time he is hampered by passers-by: he’d have more luck in Times Square/Piccadilly Circus! All he can do is survey the scene from a distance as he slowly and surreptitiously drives past “3 or 4 times”, but in so doing he probably takes some comfort from seeing that all tracks/prints have been covered by fresh snow - as has the body. Nevertheless, he doesn’t hang around for too long – after all, who on earth would be out joy-riding in those conditions?

But all is not lost for those seeking justice for Jo: the perp may not have completely covered his metaphorical tracks. For example, anyone found to have used his car on Sat morning would have to have had a pretty good reason for having done so given the exceptional weather. Such a person would be even more exposed if he’d slipped up by having his mobile with him on just one of his visits to Longwood Lane.

If no such mobile evidence comes to light, then that in itself could be quite significant. For example, if the perp had gone by car to visit Jo on Friday night (despite the dire weather forecast), he’d have had nowhere to leave his mobile (though he could have removed the battery if he’d had his wits about him - during the most panic-filled hours of his life, when DNA would have been his overriding concern!). So a total lack of incriminating mobile evidence in respect of such a person would tend to draw suspicion away from him, and onto someone who could easily have left his mobile behind in Canynge Road…..

Come on plod, give us another clue!
 
another snippet from Bristol Evening Post interview with RS, relevant to earlier discussion here re: JY's returning of calls/texts:



http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/DESPERATE-KILLER-CAUGHT/article-3090666-detail/article.html

Interesting bit about the "highly significant"piece of evidence, anyone found out what it is yet?, could give us a lot more leads.

Miss Scott spoke as police were reported to be examining what could be a "highly significant" piece of evidence handed in by a member of the public.
 
The most difficult thing (IMO) in trying to solve ALL these cases...is that we, by nature, try to put ourselves into the perps' shoes...to work out what, where and why...but, as you rightly state, what these people do is not within our domain to understand. There is obviously something mentally/sexually different with them and that is what makes deciphering who and why so difficult.

Hit the nail on the head Mickey. Trying to put yourself in the shoes of the murderer to see why, how, and who. The Police are far better at criminal profiling and their behaviour than us. But I still have to say I think this perpertrator is different, very different. I think he's confused the Police and not acted as they expect. I think he's caught them out and there on a wild goose chase. (possibly) I think the lack of them saying anything, no action is because there stuck.

It's for that very reason i'm tending to doubt it might be anyone known to Jo.
 
That's an interesting point. Do we know, BTW, whether the police turned up later on the Friday night? If so, like you say, it's curious.
[I'm in lovely London, but have never reported people missing (although I did once have somebody vanish for a bit and spent a rather unpleasant while phoning hospitals and all the rest, although everything ended up OK [God, how irrelevant!)].

Yes the police turned out that night (well, technically early hours monday morning), which is why Jo's friend got a missed call at 4am on the monday morning. The police don't usually phone people at 4am, so far as I know, so at that point someone in the police was taking this very, very seriously. In my opinion they already knew then beyond any realistic doubt, that Jo was dead. This was a murder enquiry from the minute that call to the police was made. It explains the behaviour of the parents and GR at the first appeal- I have never seen such hopelessness displayed in connection with any missing person enquiry.
 
Re the poll, fascinating interim result. I see GR’s still ahead by a nose, but not for much longer, I’m willing to bet.

whodathoughtit just tied things up by voting for the "coterie" juggernaut, i.e. someone(s)-in-vicinity up to and possibly including LL; so each bf & coterie have seven votes, with LL himself (with one other assisting) purely accounting for four of those votes.

If we get some more votes I'll do another summary later.

We're leaning heavily toward the perpetrator being either someone Jo knew personally or might have known by sight. I think it indicates that the fact her body was taken - probably from the flat - and disposed of elsewhere is the key to the case.
 
It doesn't make sense knowing a close lady friend/assosciate (already in a happy relationship) is on her own, then going to her flat with the sole intention of having sex with her. Which I have to say was the reason she was killed I.M.O.

That's a very risky move to make too.

Supposing the perp misunderstood her - say she said something along the lines of, "He [meaning BF]'s gone to Sheffield, would you like to come over and hang out at mine a bit?" Maybe she wasn't too comfortable at the thought of being on her own in the flat for the first time, I certainly never am regardless of how much I think I'm going to enjoy myself and do all the things I can't do otherwise. You know, enter the flat and it's dark, floorboards creek, things rattle, and all that. That's why I would ask a friend to come over for a cuppa for a while, it's always easier to just fall into bed and ignore the sounds of the empty flat after the friend is gone.
Perhaps the perp misread her message as an invitation/come-on, something like 'Single again, want to have some fun', or something similar, acted on it, Jo protested and screamed, he felt he needed to silence her...

Alcohol may have played a big part. I bet you know how easy it is to misunderstand things when you've had a couple (too many).
 
Interesting bit about the "highly significant"piece of evidence, anyone found out what it is yet?, could give us a lot more leads.

Miss Scott spoke as police were reported to be examining what could be a "highly significant" piece of evidence handed in by a member of the public.

A highly significant piece of evidence which has apparently caused the police to return to 44 Canynge Road today for further forensic investigations.

Well, if the perp was at all clued up (and the police expressly state that he was forensically aware), he would have put the body in a tarp, or something similar, before putting it into his car. After discarding the body, he would then have wanted to discard the tarp. This may be it.
 
Hit the nail on the head Mickey. Trying to put yourself in the shoes of the murderer to see why, how, and who. The Police are far better at criminal profiling and their behaviour than us. But I still have to say I think this perpertrator is different, very different. I think he's confused the Police and not acted as they expect. I think he's caught them out and there on a wild goose chase. (possibly) I think the lack of them saying anything, no action is because there stuck.

It's for that very reason i'm tending to doubt it might be anyone known to Jo.
I'm sure that many 'sleuths' on this site would be able to accurately pinpoint the 'most likely' perps....if only they were up to speed on the evidence (which, of course, they never will be). Either the police are complete numptys....or they are deliberately 'drip feeding' us clues which they hope will manipulate the perp into either...panic...or confession. Either way, apart from being a good 'cerebral exercise', I think most of us are deliberately being sent 'off track'. Which, to me, is a pity. None of us are interested in the reward (I think it should go to a charity supported by Jo) and the police, IMO, are missing out on a rare opportunity to harvest some very well thought out, valuable points, raised by genuine 'sleuths'...whose main aim is to find the perp and bring closure to Jos' family. (not to mention lifting the suspicion that has surrounded innocent folk during this investigation).
 
Whodunnit

1. two killers
2. obsession, desire for affiliation between killers
3. 8pm
4. removed by perpetrators
5. body deposited christmas eve
 
None of us are interested in the reward (I think it should go to a charity supported by Jo)

Mikeymot, I was thinking along these lines today. Missing People, homeless shelters, or whatever else Jo supported.

(You have made me cry a little, but in a good way.)
 
13 members and 22 guests looking on right now - c'mon guests, join in, we need to hear from you.
 
Yes I agree Teabreid, whats more there are so many detectives on this case surely one of them would have thought about mobile phone signals. But in the words of my other half "they are not the brightest people on the planet" lol.

I think we're being unfair to the Police here. They have a huge investigative team. They will be quite experienced in investigating murders. They will have done all the things you are saying they have only just begun. But we won't know about it because are external to it.. Of course they will have used cadaver dogs, Of course they will have taken DNA tests immediately the body was found. All such testing is standard procedure. In fact, the Police are highly professional and effective. If they don't find the killer, it won't be for lack of resources or skill.

The police and Crown Prosecution Service get a cinviction in 90% of cases. I'm starting to sound like a policeman myself now!!:innocent:
 
To me it's more to do with the fact that they put 70 officers on the case and that they didn't give a description of what Jo had last been wearing.
If anybody can find me an instance of a missing person inquiry where they don't tell you what the person had last been wearing, I'll eat my shoe.
You guys could well end up seriously sick.....one has offered to eat their velvet hat...and you've offered to eat your shoe! May I suggest (just in case)...that future posters pick more easily digestable 'tokens'???
 
Whodunnit

1. two killers
2. obsession, desire for affiliation between killers
3. 8pm
4. removed by perpetrators
5. body deposited christmas eve
How could she have died at 8pm...and gone shopping afterwards? think this may be stretching the imagination a little too far!
 
You guys could well end up seriously sick.....one has offered to eat their velvet hat...and you've offered to eat your shoe! May I suggest (just in case)...that future posters pick more easily digestable 'tokens'???

I'd watched this recently
[video=youtube;rd6rUo7Htso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd6rUo7Htso[/video]
I did once offer, in print, to eat my fez depending on a certain sporting outcome. Fortunately I didn't have to.
 
13 members and 22 guests looking on right now - c'mon guests, join in, we need to hear from you.
22 GUESTS!!!..COME ON YOU GUYS... Every bit of information and input is essential in this case....join us...especially if you have forensic procedure knowledge. But..be warned...once you're 'in'....you will be hooked!
 
The police and Crown Prosecution Service get a cinviction in 90% of cases. I'm starting to sound like a policeman myself now!!:innocent:

A 90% conviction rate is great, but that's the percentage of cases where someone is actually prosecuted. Of more relevance is the detection rate for reported murders, which stands at 86% nationally (2006/2007). That may sound high, but just consider that of 755 murders that year, 653 were solved, leaving 102 unsolved. Since most murders are open and shut "domestics", I am not reassured by these figures at all.
 
I think we're being unfair to the Police here. They have a huge investigative team. They will be quite experienced in investigating murders. They will have done all the things you are saying they have only just begun. But we won't know about it because are external to it.. Of course they will have used cadaver dogs, Of course they will have taken DNA tests immediately the body was found. All such testing is standard procedure. In fact, the Police are highly professional and effective. If they don't find the killer, it won't be for lack of resources or skill.

The police and Crown Prosecution Service get a cinviction in 90% of cases. I'm starting to sound like a policeman myself now!!:innocent:
Thank you PC219!...Seriously though...you are probably right...we are just (justifiably) frustrated!
 
To me it's more to do with the fact that they put 70 officers on the case and that they didn't give a description of what Jo had last been wearing.
If anybody can find me an instance of a missing person inquiry where they don't tell you what the person had last been wearing, I'll eat my shoe.


YEs, this is inciteful. My answer to this is that they took the cadaver dogs to the flat immediately given that she might have been gone for over 48 hours, it would have been irresponsible not to. They all knew she was dead, but just couldn't find the body.

P.s I'm haunted by the 'Debbie' comments on facebook. They resonate. This for me is much, much more likely. I think Professor Wilson is wrong. There is a pair of killers operating which need catching.
 
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